Merged: Ask Boomer (No B.S. Wanted)
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Boomer said:1. It's Santonio Holmes mate.I have never seen him disappear in the big games. That 85 yarder he took to the house in the Fiesta Bowl, the big TD catch over Cedric Griffin vs Texas, etc. He is tough, but very different size wise to Chambers.
2. I don't think I have seen anyone say that Chad is better than Hawk. Hawk is one of the best 3 players in the draft. Chad is a fine player, but I have seen him have struggles - cutting off Maroney last year. I think there's a chance he's there at 16, but it's unlikely.
3. I would imagine he might. But he may wait till June. I mean Sammy Morris and Travis Minor can run the ball and have started in this league and Ronnie Brown WAS the 2nd overall pick, so you'd hope that he can pound the rock some.
Heard it on ESPN(Cower) on the Radio that Holmes did not have a good game against TX and others. On Chad ESPN again (announcer - old Denver lineman) said that for overall skill he liked Chad and he would not touch AJ with the first 10 picks
Pennington's Rocket Arm
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:yes: 'twas my point.Boomer said:
GADOLPHIN said:
He had 5-74 and a score against Miami, 4-73 and the TD vs Texas, 6-72 vs Michigan, 5-150 and 2 scores against Michigan State, 5-124 vs the Irish in the Fiesta Bowl.
In the Texas game he 182 total yards, so whoever said he didn't show for big games is talking out of his ear.
And anyone who says that they wouldn't touch Hawk in the top 10 picks is frankly ******ed.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
As for Santonio Holmes' size, his listed weight during the season was around 185 to 188. He's 5 feet, 10.5 inches tall, as measured at the Combine. He weighed 188 pounds at the Combine.
If you go to Yahoo Sports and look at the stats, leading receivers, you'll notice that 16 of the top 26 receivers in all of football in 2005 weighed LESS than 200 pounds. The average weight of these 16 receivers was 191 pounds.
Guys like Chad Johnson are only 6'0" and 192 pounds. Marvin Harrison is only 178 pounds. Antonio Bryant is like 6'1" or 6'2" and 188 pounds.
What the pundits keep failing to account for when they knock his size, is that there are a bunch of leading NFL receivers that generally weigh within 5 pounds of Santonio Holmes at about the same height. And listed weight for these guys is usually overstated, so the chances are if a guy is listed 192 pounds he probably weighs about the same 188 pounds that Santonio Holmes weighed at the Combine and at his 2nd pro day.
I've heard that these receivers, the ones who are about the same size as Santonio...they are "the exception, not the rule" in the NFL...but when I look at the top 26 receivers in the NFL and I see that well over half of them weigh under 200 pounds with an average weight of 191 pounds among those 16...then I think to myself, uhh...they aren't the exception, they are the rule. The big guys, they are the exception.
So whenever you read a draft profile for Santonio Holmes and you see amongst his weaknesses stuff like "may not be able to get off the jam in the pros" or you read "may not be able to block against bigger pro corners" please try and keep in mind that these are size-based projections that are not grounded in the things that Santonio displayed on the field in college.
It boils down to either you DO think that a 5'11" and 188 pound guy can be successful in the NFL, or you do NOT think a 5'11" and 188 pound guy can be successful in the NFL. And if you do not think so, just try and keep in mind that the majority of leading NFL receivers are of a similar size with Holmes.
If there's one consistent observation I have seen that is size-related and is actually based on the things that Santonio has displayed on the field in college, it is that he can get frustrated and thrown off his game by bigger corners that are being physical with him. Personally, I think that observation comes from the Texas game where he went stretches without doing anything significant, and the one big play he ended up making was that over the shoulder TD against Cedric Griffin, where Griffin actually had really good coverage but Troy Smith threw the ball perfectly and Santonio made a perfect catch. Personally, I think the TD catch showed that even when you frustrate the man you're not going to get him on every play and he'll eventually break something open. But, it does lead to questions of whether he can be a #1 in the NFL.
If you go to Yahoo Sports and look at the stats, leading receivers, you'll notice that 16 of the top 26 receivers in all of football in 2005 weighed LESS than 200 pounds. The average weight of these 16 receivers was 191 pounds.
Guys like Chad Johnson are only 6'0" and 192 pounds. Marvin Harrison is only 178 pounds. Antonio Bryant is like 6'1" or 6'2" and 188 pounds.
What the pundits keep failing to account for when they knock his size, is that there are a bunch of leading NFL receivers that generally weigh within 5 pounds of Santonio Holmes at about the same height. And listed weight for these guys is usually overstated, so the chances are if a guy is listed 192 pounds he probably weighs about the same 188 pounds that Santonio Holmes weighed at the Combine and at his 2nd pro day.
I've heard that these receivers, the ones who are about the same size as Santonio...they are "the exception, not the rule" in the NFL...but when I look at the top 26 receivers in the NFL and I see that well over half of them weigh under 200 pounds with an average weight of 191 pounds among those 16...then I think to myself, uhh...they aren't the exception, they are the rule. The big guys, they are the exception.
So whenever you read a draft profile for Santonio Holmes and you see amongst his weaknesses stuff like "may not be able to get off the jam in the pros" or you read "may not be able to block against bigger pro corners" please try and keep in mind that these are size-based projections that are not grounded in the things that Santonio displayed on the field in college.
It boils down to either you DO think that a 5'11" and 188 pound guy can be successful in the NFL, or you do NOT think a 5'11" and 188 pound guy can be successful in the NFL. And if you do not think so, just try and keep in mind that the majority of leading NFL receivers are of a similar size with Holmes.
If there's one consistent observation I have seen that is size-related and is actually based on the things that Santonio has displayed on the field in college, it is that he can get frustrated and thrown off his game by bigger corners that are being physical with him. Personally, I think that observation comes from the Texas game where he went stretches without doing anything significant, and the one big play he ended up making was that over the shoulder TD against Cedric Griffin, where Griffin actually had really good coverage but Troy Smith threw the ball perfectly and Santonio made a perfect catch. Personally, I think the TD catch showed that even when you frustrate the man you're not going to get him on every play and he'll eventually break something open. But, it does lead to questions of whether he can be a #1 in the NFL.
Boom
I see a post in the main forum that indicates Denver traded away their 2nd 1st round pick. That does make things a bit interesting. It would appear that Holmes or Jackson may drop into our lap.
How do you think the Denver trade may affect us?
I see a post in the main forum that indicates Denver traded away their 2nd 1st round pick. That does make things a bit interesting. It would appear that Holmes or Jackson may drop into our lap.
How do you think the Denver trade may affect us?
Denver still has the 15th pick overall which means they still pick right in front of us and could take Holmes or Jackson. I've heard that the Eagles are in love with Jackson and will take him. if Denver takes Holmes than neither of them will be available at our pickFinFan57 said:
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I think the speculation all along has been that Denver will take Chad Jackson with pick #15, and their lack of a pick at #22 doesn't necessarily change that.
Also there is news that Ashley Lelie is avoiding the off season conditioning program in an attempt to get the Broncos to trade him.
Also there is news that Ashley Lelie is avoiding the off season conditioning program in an attempt to get the Broncos to trade him.
FrostyFinFan
Club Member
CK or Simon,
The latest news indicates that it is likely that we acquire Harrington from the Lions. What's your take on him, considering the Lion offense was very different than Miami's. Also, PFW rumors say that a Ricky to Denver for a second or third round pick wouldn't be surprising, assuming of course that he wins the appeal. Is that a bunch of bunk, or do you think Denver is willing to take a gamble. They clearly did with Clarett, which backfired in a major way. Thanks again to both of you for your patience and willingness to share some of your knowledge with us. Oh, one last thing... if we do get Harrington before the draft, do you think Saban still takes a 7th round chance on Holland from Colorado St?
The latest news indicates that it is likely that we acquire Harrington from the Lions. What's your take on him, considering the Lion offense was very different than Miami's. Also, PFW rumors say that a Ricky to Denver for a second or third round pick wouldn't be surprising, assuming of course that he wins the appeal. Is that a bunch of bunk, or do you think Denver is willing to take a gamble. They clearly did with Clarett, which backfired in a major way. Thanks again to both of you for your patience and willingness to share some of your knowledge with us. Oh, one last thing... if we do get Harrington before the draft, do you think Saban still takes a 7th round chance on Holland from Colorado St?
Bradical
Starter
Boom or Ck,
My question is about Jimmy Williams. He seems to me to be a very good safety prospect with his size/speed/hitting combination. What do you guys think of his potential at safety for the Dolphins?
Also I think I saw something about his getting himself in trouble with his mouth or just plain being messed up in the head(I think I read emotionally unstable). What's the story with that?
thanks
My question is about Jimmy Williams. He seems to me to be a very good safety prospect with his size/speed/hitting combination. What do you guys think of his potential at safety for the Dolphins?
Also I think I saw something about his getting himself in trouble with his mouth or just plain being messed up in the head(I think I read emotionally unstable). What's the story with that?
thanks
Dolfan2788
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ckparrothead said:
Do you think his production will go up if he is traded?(Lelie)
Over the past few years I've just thought he's been a prospect that got overhyped because of good size and good measurables before the draft. I just don't think he's the kind of player that will succeed in the NFL on his 2nd team, I mean the Broncos are a fairly good team with a good QB, great running game and a defense that can get the opposing O off the field...
blakeypremer
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I hear Bunkley or Ngata, one of them will be there at 16, if say santionio holmes is there also who do you take?