Merged: Omar Jacobs | Page 28 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: Omar Jacobs

Boik14 said:
I like Croyle, Drew Olsen and to a lesser extent Jay Cutler.

Croyle is at the top of my list because of his ability. he was a highly touted player coming out of high school. His stats wont blow you away or impress many people but take into account the lack of weapons and conservative offense his team used and you would understand why those things dont jumpout at you. When you watch him throw the ball you realize its only injury history and the tendency to overshoot an open wr downfield that prevent Croyle from being talked about as a late 1st. His injury past isnt something that can be overlooked (knee, shoulder) but at the same time neither can his potential be overlooked. Another thing I like is that because he will not be a first round pick he'd cost us less money vs the cap and since qb is typically the highest paid position, especially for those drafted in rd 1, thats significant. I dont doubt Nick realizes this since when you look at the way he uses his cap space its based on being efficient with the money available to you and getting the most for what your owner spends. Projection: Mid rd 2-Early rd3

Olsen has a little more work to do than Croyle. His arm isnt as strong and so his touch has to become better. His footwork and delivery are ok but he does not throw well in the face of pressure. His 34/6 td/int ratio are deceptive in that much of it came against bad teams and even more of it came when he was mounting combacks. Two sides to that are he's shown he never feels he's out of a game but then again how did his team get down by so much in the 1st place. All in all hes the type of solid mid rd prospect that Mueller has done well plucking out of the late rds of the draft as his history with Delhomme (7th), Bulger (6th, cut by Haslett), and Brooks (traded a 4th for GB 3rd stringer at the time) shows he has had success finding. Projection: 4th round.
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...so let me get this straight - Croyle is your favourite because he throws the ball well (except for his tendency to miss open receivers) and was highly ranked out of high school; of course also downplaying the fact that he can't stay healthy. Olsen is your second pick because - I'm trying to figure out why, based on your notes on him. His accuracy (arguably his best fact supporting him) is misleading, he doesn't throw well under pressure (which will surely be worse in the pro's) and his arm isn't strong.

Cutler is your third choice - most damning is the fact that he'd cost more money? Hypothetically, he's available to us at #16, and Saban/Mueller have decided that yes, he's ranked between #13 and #20 based on their evaluations (and in looking at the draft pick trade chart - the one assigning points to every pick - there is very little difference between #13 and #20). So do you take him? In my opinion, of course you do. QB is the position most in need of an overhaul, especially over the long term, so drafting the most talented available qb seems to be a good solution. You are as likely to have a first round bust at any position as you are at qb. Do qb's get paid more than other positions? Undoubtedly, thus your risk is higher because of the money involved. But if you use money as your most important criteria in selecting a player in general and a qb specifically, then you end up with...well, you end up with Jay Fiedler, Ray Lucas and Gus Frerotte. At best, they're ok qb's who can manage the game. If you want more from the position, maybe you have to risk a bit more - not only do I trust Saban/Mueller to draft well (as they have shown they can), but I trust them to coach well. So if they take Cutler at #16, I trust that they'll develop him and coach him to success.
 
saves said:
Excuse me? The fact that nothing you said about him is correct alone disqualifies you from knowing anything about him. And I'm not running around here saying that this guy is a HoF QB in the making, or even that we should or will draft him, but you are just wrong on all counts of your assesment of him.
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Everything I said about him is correct. try watching him play and maybe you would see the same thinsg unless of course you choose to turn a blind eye to it.
 
cowtowndick said:
...so let me get this straight - Croyle is your favourite because he throws the ball well (except for his tendency to miss open receivers) and was highly ranked out of high school; of course also downplaying the fact that he can't stay healthy. Olsen is your second pick because - I'm trying to figure out why, based on your notes on him. His accuracy (arguably his best fact supporting him) is misleading, he doesn't throw well under pressure (which will surely be worse in the pro's) and his arm isn't strong.

Cutler is your third choice - most damning is the fact that he'd cost more money? Hypothetically, he's available to us at #16, and Saban/Mueller have decided that yes, he's ranked between #13 and #20 based on their evaluations (and in looking at the draft pick trade chart - the one assigning points to every pick - there is very little difference between #13 and #20). So do you take him? In my opinion, of course you do. QB is the position most in need of an overhaul, especially over the long term, so drafting the most talented available qb seems to be a good solution. You are as likely to have a first round bust at any position as you are at qb. Do qb's get paid more than other positions? Undoubtedly, thus your risk is higher because of the money involved. But if you use money as your most important criteria in selecting a player in general and a qb specifically, then you end up with...well, you end up with Jay Fiedler, Ray Lucas and Gus Frerotte. At best, they're ok qb's who can manage the game. If you want more from the position, maybe you have to risk a bit more - not only do I trust Saban/Mueller to draft well (as they have shown they can), but I trust them to coach well. So if they take Cutler at #16, I trust that they'll develop him and coach him to success.
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Croyle is my pick because hes basically got the same upside as Cutler but his injury history will knock him down a round or 2 making him a better value. I like Olsen cause hes the the perfect example of the type of QB that Mueller has had success in the past finding (Delhomme, Bulger, even Brooks) and with a year or so of sitting and learning I think Olsen would become a good pro qb.

Again, I dont dislike Cutler. Its just that I dont believe in reaching for a player a round earlier than his ability really says he should go.

Late rd qb's are not always Fiedlers and Frerotte's; theyre also Trent Green's, Brady's, Gannon, Brad Johnsons...mvp's and SB winners
 
Boik14 said:
Croyle is my pick because hes basically got the same upside as Cutler but his injury history will knock him down a round or 2 making him a better value. I like Olsen cause hes the the perfect example of the type of QB that Mueller has had success in the past finding (Delhomme, Bulger, even Brooks) and with a year or so of sitting and learning I think Olsen would become a good pro qb.

Again, I dont dislike Cutler. Its just that I dont believe in reaching for a player a round earlier than his ability really says he should go.

Late rd qb's are not always Fiedlers and Frerotte's; theyre also Trent Green's, Brady's, Gannon, Brad Johnsons...mvp's and SB winners
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no disrespect intended, but they're also spergon wynn, kevin daft, tee martin...there are plenty of examples on each side of the argument. brady is such an exception that you can't even consider it - obviously his ability (and the results) said he should go first overall. so why did he go in the sixth? you could say the same for hasselbeck and delhomme. so it's possible to say that it's almost impossible to judge these guys. so the team doing the drafting (and their ability to nurture talent) becomes the most reliable factor, and i believe in our coaching staff. and i'm not quite seeing your point about croyle - sure, his injury history make knock him down a round or two and make him more affordable, but it could also make him completely unreliable and a bit of a bust, regardless of where he is drafted. if he can't play, he can't play - this is the first time i've heard of injury-prone being a positive. again, not trying to be rude - i guess i just don't agree.
 
Boik14 said:
Everything I said about him is correct. try watching him play and maybe you would see the same thinsg unless of course you choose to turn a blind eye to it.
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I've seen him play, about 10 times live, a bunch more televised. I know what I see and its the same stuff now that I saw last year, and If you'll seach back to the middle of the season last year you'll find the same comments.
 
jacobs will be a third but i think he will move up to late second because he will suprise at the combine
 
16 MIA *Omar Jacobs, QB, Bowling Green 6'5 255
With doubt toward the future at the QB position for the Dolphins, the selection of Jacobs could put those worries to rest. To some this could be a reach by the Dolphins but the upside Jacobs possesses prototype size for the QB position along with enough mobility to have defenses weary of his running ability. Omar showed exceptional accuracy to his passes and stands tall and confident in the pocket. Who throws a high velocity pass with good touch and placement to his balls as well. He exhibits leadership on the field and commands respect from his fellow offensive players, with his knowledge for the game and playmaking ability. Without question Jacobs shows the franchise skills to take Miami to another level. Though there are questions about his low delivery and awkward throwing style. I would have liked to see Omar return for one more season in college to refine his skills, but had he not come out early the Dolphins would never have sniffed him this early in the draft.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/index.cfm?page=1
 
saves said:
Good one dude, I've said all along lets take him at 16. I noticed you have a low post count, do us a favor and keep it that way.
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I was actually supporting your point of view by highlighting that others who have scouted him share the same page with yourself. It was more of a jab at Boik14 if anything, who seems to think Omar isn't much of a prospect at all. Also the report is separate from the draft positioning.
 
cowtowndick said:
no disrespect intended, but they're also spergon wynn, kevin daft, tee martin...there are plenty of examples on each side of the argument. brady is such an exception that you can't even consider it - obviously his ability (and the results) said he should go first overall. so why did he go in the sixth? you could say the same for hasselbeck and delhomme. so it's possible to say that it's almost impossible to judge these guys. so the team doing the drafting (and their ability to nurture talent) becomes the most reliable factor, and i believe in our coaching staff. and i'm not quite seeing your point about croyle - sure, his injury history make knock him down a round or two and make him more affordable, but it could also make him completely unreliable and a bit of a bust, regardless of where he is drafted. if he can't play, he can't play - this is the first time i've heard of injury-prone being a positive. again, not trying to be rude - i guess i just don't agree.
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No offense taken but:
- While I agree there are the Tee Martin and Kevin Daft's, true scrubs as opposed to hidden gems. However, you can say you have Akilli's Smiths and Peyton Manning's in rd 1. Either way the players are no sure thing. The significant difference is the amount of money invested in the player and the track record your GM has in finding those kinds of players. Drafting a bust in rd 1 is cap cripling. Drafting a bust in rd 5 or something means squat.
- As far as Croyle, it's not that his injury prone is necessarily a positive for him anyway. Its that based on ability he should go late 1st (probably ahead of Cutler). The reality of is because of that injury past (which by the way occured on 2 completely fluke plays) its going to knock him down a round and create a better value for someone. The same thing happend (in part) to Crowder last year when he was projected as a 1st rd talent but his injury past (combined with some immaturity dropped him to the 3rd).

I guess we'll agree to disagree.
 
saves said:
I've seen him play, about 10 times live, a bunch more televised. I know what I see and its the same stuff now that I saw last year, and If you'll seach back to the middle of the season last year you'll find the same comments.
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even if you wrote it a year and a half ago it still doesnt make you anymore right than you are now. When you talk about the draft youre talking about being able to evaluate a players ability and how it will translate on the next level. Just cause it looks good in a poop conference does not mean its going to translate. And if you watch him play hes a mechanical disaster who needs havoc to create. Its like another Seneca Wallace, he cant create poop off a normal drop back, he has to run around for 10 minutes to make something happen. Garbage imo, we'll wait to find out who was right. If im wrong, which I obviously dont believe I am, ill man up and say it.
 
Boik14 said:
even if you wrote it a year and a half ago it still doesnt make you anymore right than you are now. When you talk about the draft youre talking about being able to evaluate a players ability and how it will translate on the next level. Just cause it looks good in a poop conference does not mean its going to translate. And if you watch him play hes a mechanical disaster who needs havoc to create. Its like another Seneca Wallace, he cant create poop off a normal drop back, he has to run around for 10 minutes to make something happen. Garbage imo, we'll wait to find out who was right. If im wrong, which I obviously dont believe I am, ill man up and say it.
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Are you kidding me? Seneca Wallace?..i'm done with this thread
 
omar jacobs???

could som1 please tell me anything about omar jacobs, i keep hearing his name everywhere and i dont know anything about him, is a pocket er rushing passer, does he have a strong arm? does he throw side armed? enlighten me
 
wagz said:
could som1 please tell me anything about omar jacobs, i keep hearing his name everywhere and i dont know anything about him, is a pocket er rushing passer, does he have a strong arm? does he throw side armed? enlighten me
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personally i would rather have omar in the second instead of taking cutler.omar can stay in the pocket or run.hes kind of like a cullpepper.he has avery strong arm.when i have watched him he has been consistent.he is in my avy.people will say he doesnt play in a tough division but roethlisberger cam from that same division
 
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