Merged: Omar Jacobs | Page 26 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: Omar Jacobs

Danny said:
I've never seen him play so I can't evaluate him....you seem to know a little bit about QB's so could you tell me who you like other than the top 3? And whoever you like, what round do you see him going in?

Ozzy rules!!
I like Croyle, Drew Olsen and to a lesser extent Jay Cutler.

Croyle is at the top of my list because of his ability. he was a highly touted player coming out of high school. His stats wont blow you away or impress many people but take into account the lack of weapons and conservative offense his team used and you would understand why those things dont jumpout at you. When you watch him throw the ball you realize its only injury history and the tendency to overshoot an open wr downfield that prevent Croyle from being talked about as a late 1st. His injury past isnt something that can be overlooked (knee, shoulder) but at the same time neither can his potential be overlooked. Another thing I like is that because he will not be a first round pick he'd cost us less money vs the cap and since qb is typically the highest paid position, especially for those drafted in rd 1, thats significant. I dont doubt Nick realizes this since when you look at the way he uses his cap space its based on being efficient with the money available to you and getting the most for what your owner spends. Projection: Mid rd 2-Early rd3

Olsen has a little more work to do than Croyle. His arm isnt as strong and so his touch has to become better. His footwork and delivery are ok but he does not throw well in the face of pressure. His 34/6 td/int ratio are deceptive in that much of it came against bad teams and even more of it came when he was mounting combacks. Two sides to that are he's shown he never feels he's out of a game but then again how did his team get down by so much in the 1st place. All in all hes the type of solid mid rd prospect that Mueller has done well plucking out of the late rds of the draft as his history with Delhomme (7th), Bulger (6th, cut by Haslett), and Brooks (traded a 4th for GB 3rd stringer at the time) shows he has had success finding. Projection: 4th round.

Lastly is Jay Cutler. My reasoning behind this has to do with two things. Ill start by saying I like most of what he offers. My biggest qualm with picking him in rd 1, is like I said its not efficient use of the cap. Qb's need 3-4 years of solid learning before they do anything and the cost of a 1st rd qb in the 15-20 range is typically still pretty high up the totem pole in terms of bonus money, contract size, and contract legnth. Its the kind of problem that can hurt a teams cap situation for years if its not done right. For that reason alone, I'd rather wait for a mid rd qb unless its a sure thing like a P.manning or someone. Which leads to my second point and that is that Cutler isnt a sure thing. He throws off his back foot too much. He played bad vs good teams and good vs bad ones. Inconsistancy is a deal breaker for me if I'm picking a Qb this high. Lastly, youre talking about a 2nd rd talent in the mid 1st. If we can get him in rd 2 Im groovy with the pick. Still, I project him to go in rd 1.
 
Joey 22 said:
I was trying to say, aaauugghh any ways nevermind if you are not smart enough to properly read a short sentence it makes no sense to argue with you.
LOL you cant even spell what you were trying to say or make it work gramatically and youre telling me im not smart enough to comprehend it? You dont make make any sense. On top of that there are qb needy teams every year.
 
Boik14 said:
I like Croyle, Drew Olsen and to a lesser extent Jay Cutler.

Croyle is at the top of my list because of his ability. he was a highly touted player coming out of high school. His stats wont blow you away or impress many people but take into account the lack of weapons and conservative offense his team used and you would understand why those things dont jumpout at you. When you watch him throw the ball you realize its only injury history and the tendency to overshoot an open wr downfield that prevent Croyle from being talked about as a late 1st. His injury past isnt something that can be overlooked (knee, shoulder) but at the same time neither can his potential be overlooked. Another thing I like is that because he will not be a first round pick he'd cost us less money vs the cap and since qb is typically the highest paid position, especially for those drafted in rd 1, thats significant. I dont doubt Nick realizes this since when you look at the way he uses his cap space its based on being efficient with the money available to you and getting the most for what your owner spends. Projection: Mid rd 2-Early rd3

Olsen has a little more work to do than Croyle. His arm isnt as strong and so his touch has to become better. His footwork and delivery are ok but he does not throw well in the face of pressure. His 34/6 td/int ratio are deceptive in that much of it came against bad teams and even more of it came when he was mounting combacks. Two sides to that are he's shown he never feels he's out of a game but then again how did his team get down by so much in the 1st place. All in all hes the type of solid mid rd prospect that Mueller has done well plucking out of the late rds of the draft as his history with Delhomme (7th), Bulger (6th, cut by Haslett), and Brooks (traded a 4th for GB 3rd stringer at the time) shows he has had success finding. Projection: 4th round.

Lastly is Jay Cutler. My reasoning behind this has to do with two things. Ill start by saying I like most of what he offers. My biggest qualm with picking him in rd 1, is like I said its not efficient use of the cap. Qb's need 3-4 years of solid learning before they do anything and the cost of a 1st rd qb in the 15-20 range is typically still pretty high up the totem pole in terms of bonus money, contract size, and contract legnth. Its the kind of problem that can hurt a teams cap situation for years if its not done right. For that reason alone, I'd rather wait for a mid rd qb unless its a sure thing like a P.manning or someone. Which leads to my second point and that is that Cutler isnt a sure thing. He throws off his back foot too much. He played bad vs good teams and good vs bad ones. Inconsistancy is a deal breaker for me if I'm picking a Qb this high. Lastly, youre talking about a 2nd rd talent in the mid 1st. If we can get him in rd 2 Im groovy with the pick. Still, I project him to go in rd 1.
Thanks for the info bro.I have seen Olsen play and I like him in the later rounds.I understand about taking a QB in the 1st round and the cap...I think Nick does too and I doubt he'll take anyone before his time to be picked....that's why I'm thinking LB or LT in round one unless someones drops......Ngata,Kiwanuka? Not saying they're gonna drop but you never know....one thing I do know is that Nick will get us a QB that we can win with.

Ozzy rules!!
 
Danny said:
Thanks for the info bro.I have seen Olsen play and I like him in the later rounds.I understand about taking a QB in the 1st round and the cap...I think Nick does too and I doubt he'll take anyone before his time to be picked....that's why I'm thinking LB or LT in round one unless someones drops......Ngata,Kiwanuka? Not saying they're gonna drop but you never know....one thing I do know is that Nick will get us a QB that we can win with.

Ozzy rules!!
No problem. As far as Ngata, Im not impressed. I want to steer clear of him and I hope Nick does as well. Kiwanuka I like almost as much as Mario Williams (who also happens to be a better fit for a 3-4 D cause of his 6'7" 290lb frame). What makes Kiwanuka special is his athleticism and speed. You can just sense by watching him he was born to spend his career making a Qb's life really hard.
 
A lot depends on how he does in the offseason. Remember there are 3 consensus Ist rd qb's. The rest are all question marks. If Omar has a good work out and combine he will move up.
 
Dolfan_Noles said:
Ive noticed a lot of people are high on passing on Cutler in the first round and taking Jacobs in the second round. This is a huge reach for Jacobs. Yes, he is athletic, but he has an awkward throwing motion, and put up far better numbers his Junior season than he did this year. He struggled most against one of the worst teams in the county in Buffalo. He is from Delray and would love to play in Miami, but I just dont see him being anyones QB of the future in this league.

As far as Cutler, some people are saying he is a reach at 16, but I dont see that. I think the reason why Dolfans are so high on Cutler is that this is the first time in years that we have had a shot with the intangibles of a Jay Cutler. He is athletic, cerebral, a fantastic leader, and has a good throwing motion, and pretty good arm strength. I think that in time, Cutler will be a better NFL QB than Vince Young. It is extremely realistic to think that Cutler will be there for us, and I think that the only way that he doesnt is if Detroit grabs him at 9. But, that is not likely to happen with all of the needs that they have.

A. He put up better numbers his SOPHOMORE season, he is a junior right now. And look at his numbers, while hurt a nice chunk of the season, they were pretty damn good.

2. The Buffalo game was at Buffalo, so I didn't get a chance to see it, but BG ran all over then and didn't need to rely on passing the ball to put a 27-7 victory on the score sheet, it was a real struggle let me tell you. The ball was ran over 40 times that game.

D. http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=117822
 
sports24/7 said:
I'm just a little bit curious. There seems to be a trend of people who want the Dolphins to take Omar Jacobs really bad. I have heard alot of "hopefully we can get Jacobs in the 2nd round." or "maybe we can trade down and get him later in the first."I was wondering out of all of these people with this feeling how many of you have seen him play more than say 3 games? Its true he has put up some big numbers against bad teams, and he has some talent, but the general consensus from people who scout college players seems to be that he will be a 4th-5th round guy and will be a major project. If I'm not mistaken that was what the advisory committee told him as well. I personally have only seen him play once and he was impressive at times, but showed he is going to need alot of work before he is ready to play in the NFL. But by only watching one game I don't think that qualifies me to make a decision about the kid. That is why I am trusting the the professionals know what they are talking about. So I am just really curious about why so many people are in love with him, think he will be drafted so high even though people "in the know" seem to think otherwise, and why they are so convinced that this is the case.

I adressed most of these questions with my opinion in this thread. It has kinda got lost, I'll bump it. http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=117822
 
Boik14 said:
And as far as Jacobs, "project" is only the begining of what Id use to describe him.

I love when people explain to me how just because a QB has a strong arm hes going to be a great QB, as so many of the Jacobs supporters do. Im sorry but I have yet to see why he'd be anything other than an absolute dud. He posses the touch of Ray Lucas and the accuracy of Akilli Smith.

Really, what does he has other than arm strength a component that is probably the least important of any of the major components when you look for a qb.

In short, when Jacobs develops an ability to feel the rush, throw the ball with accuracy and touch, understands how to read defenses, gets experience in a pro style offense instead of some gimmick garbage system that inflates his numbers (here on out referred to as im Couch Syndrome), and improves his footwork/mechanics MAYBE then he's something to look at. Until then hes just a clone of Bowling green's last QB (Jeff Harris) who was drafted by Baltimore in rd 5 and couldnt even break camp with the team.


While I agree w/ you on Jacobs overrall, I do dispute the importance of arm strength. If that is teh only thing a qb has, your right the qb is dead in the water in the NFL. An avg arm qb can survive in teh NFL if he is intelligent, poised and athletic, but I wouldnt put the penningtons in the elite mold. Arm strength isnt the number one factor, but it does play an importance in assessing teh qb IMO. A qb has to be able to make all teh throws or he will be limiting his effectiveness as defense will have an advantage in gameplanning.
 
Boik14 said:
And as far as Jacobs, "project" is only the begining of what Id use to describe him.

I love when people explain to me how just because a QB has a strong arm hes going to be a great QB, as so many of the Jacobs supporters do. Im sorry but I have yet to see why he'd be anything other than an absolute dud. He posses the touch of Ray Lucas and the accuracy of Akilli Smith.

Really, what does he has other than arm strength a component that is probably the least important of any of the major components when you look for a qb.

In short, when Jacobs develops an ability to feel the rush, throw the ball with accuracy and touch, understands how to read defenses, gets experience in a pro style offense instead of some gimmick garbage system that inflates his numbers (here on out referred to as im Couch Syndrome), and improves his footwork/mechanics MAYBE then he's something to look at. Until then hes just a clone of Bowling green's last QB (Jeff Harris) who was drafted by Baltimore in rd 5 and couldnt even break camp with the team.


You are completely uneducated on Jacobs skills or system.
His arm strength, while good, is definatly not his strongest asset. He has the ability to evade pressure while still keeping his eyes down field, knows how to go through his progressions, and has never had any trouble with his mechanics. He is the LEADER of a offense that has never really been too gimicky, and has spent most of his career throwing the same routes he will be in the NFL. The same offense that produced well over 1000 yards rushing and is much more balanced than people think. Just because the majority of the time is spent in shotgun dosn't make it a gimmick offense, and for as many prospects that didn't make it from a shotgun offense I can give you one who did. And you can't even start to tell me he dosn't have accuracy and expect me to believe you know what your talking about.

And he is nothing like the last BG QB (JOSH Harris) who was an option QB with a strong arm. The offense was run differently then and the team was based around Harris's ability to improvise and be a threat on the ground. He didn't have NFL accuracy and looked to run before pass. He also didn't possess NFL size or the feel for the passing game he needed to succeed. Because of these things, he was not even considered close to the prospect that Jacobs is.

Jacobs has everything you look for in an NFL QB, if he can handle it mentaly he will be a starter in the NFL. And thats what separates him from other quarterbacks you lable as having the "Couch Syndrom".
 
In the Buffalo game he actually had a barely 50% completion percentage and threw 34 times, with 2 INT and only one TD. I am not refuting that he is a good QB, but did have some injury problems, and was inconsistent.

My main point is that the Dolphins are in no situation to draft a "project" QB. We need a guy that can step in half way through 2006 or beginning of 2007 and be successful. Our defense is aging, and we are set for success immediately.
 
Jacobs might be worth a shot with a 2nd round pick but no way is he a 1st rounder...some mocks I have seen have Jacobs going around 25th in the 1st round.
 
Dolfan_Noles said:
In the Buffalo game he actually had a barely 50% completion percentage and threw 34 times, with 2 INT and only one TD. I am not refuting that he is a good QB, but did have some injury problems, and was inconsistent.

You can find maybe 3 games at best where he didn't play well. And in an pretty dominating victory such as the Buffalo one, who cares, he obviously did something right.

My main point is that the Dolphins are in no situation to draft a "project" QB. We need a guy that can step in half way through 2006 or beginning of 2007 and be successful. Our defense is aging, and we are set for success immediately

Good luck. Anyone is a gamble at this point.

Our team is set up for success in the future as much as it is success in the present. If Saban feels he has a player with physical skills he can mold, he will be a Dolphin and part of the teams future.
 
Jacobs has a great completion percentage with low INT's. That says alot. It is probably the one thing that Saban would like over other QB's. Project? I thought any QB we draft will be a project. Most QB's dont start right away. Sometimes i just do not understand why people use terms that do not really jibe. Jake Delhomme was project. I could list many others.
 
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