I have nothing against Mayfield. He had a great year, but it is a small sample size.
They use the word prototypical for a reason though, as historically 6'3" 230lb guys, or thereabouts, that are "pocket passers" have proven to be most successful.
Nfl Qb Position: Absolute Or Relative?
- Thread starter BigNastyFish
- Start date
They use the word prototypical for a reason though, as historically 6'3" 230lb guys, or thereabouts, that are "pocket passers" have proven to be most successful.
So Aaron Rodgers at 6’2”, isn’t good enough to play qb in the NFL? What about Brett Favre at 6’2”? Those aren’t prototypical heights, but they sure as hell did better than most qbs 6’3” and up. A lot of people are too hung up on “prototypical” sizes for a qb and not look at how well their game translates in the NFL. Which is the reason why Russell Wilson dropped in the draft.
Not really, if we're going by most successful which in this case I'm going to use HOF QBs because that's peak success than 6'3 230 is the minority. Since 1957 there have been 24 HOF QB's inducted of those 24 six are 6'2, 5 are 6'1, and 4 are 6'0 and under, while 9 are 6'3+. So historically the 6'2 and under QB have had the most successful.
As far 230 pounds well there are no 230 pound QBs in the HOF so I'm going to use 220 and of those 24 QB's in the HOF only 6 are 220+, 5 are 215-205, and and 13 are 204 or lower.
So historically by numbers the most successful QB are 6'2 or under and 200-215 lbs.
- Joined
- May 27, 2005
- Messages
- 24,382
- Reaction score
- 32,685
No doubt it's a team game. Put Marino on those SF teams and maybe he wins more super bowls than Montana. Marino was more durable.
But to your question, with the rules of the game so favorable for quarterbacks I think you've got to have a top 10 guy for super bowl success.
It used to be that you could build a defense, but a team can only keep so many good players. So there are more variables there to deal with.
I know fans are tired hearing about Tom Brady, but everything constantly changes around him and the Patriots still win. Granted he has Bill Bellichick and usually a pretty good defense.
But to your question, with the rules of the game so favorable for quarterbacks I think you've got to have a top 10 guy for super bowl success.
It used to be that you could build a defense, but a team can only keep so many good players. So there are more variables there to deal with.
I know fans are tired hearing about Tom Brady, but everything constantly changes around him and the Patriots still win. Granted he has Bill Bellichick and usually a pretty good defense.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,251
- Reaction score
- 31,911
Right. But to me, a "top 10 guy" doesn't necessarily personify
the vaunted franchise QB (i.e., "mystical hero") some seem to
deem essential to winning...
That's really at the core of what I'm attempting to get at...
To me, "franchise QB" is a relative term defined as much by the franchise
(i.e., team) as the individual player.
If I was to take the term "franchise QB" to the absolute definition -- I'd
include Marino, Peyton and maybe Rogers -- but that's about it...
In addition -- let's go back to a dude like Dan Fouts who was one bad ask
rock chucker for a time... I think the position is absolutely overrated
in certain ways (specifically in relation to the team concept etc.)
So yea. I agree. You can WIN with a top 10 QB who's by no definition
"franchise" (i.e., "mystical hero") IMO.
We need a damn good QB no doubt.
But "superhero" is not essential for a great TEAM.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2016
- Messages
- 13,433
- Reaction score
- 16,346
Bless you. too many are obsessed with elite or nothing
fin415
Club Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2007
- Messages
- 896
- Reaction score
- 811
What, LargoFin is pulling stats out of his ... without anything to back it up? I'm shocked, totally on the floor shocked.
Thanks for taking the time with this Superphin
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2016
- Messages
- 3,293
- Reaction score
- 5,569
Team around a QB has won superbowls but have they been dynasties?
Say what you will about the Pats, that they always put a team around Brady and such, but he's been nothing short of a superhero. How many times has Brady put that team, great as they always seem to be, on his shoulders?
Putting a team around a good QB can win you a ring but can it win you ringS.
We need, hell we deserve, an elite QB. We have so much bad to erase...
I just don't know when the fisrt pick in the draft guaranteed you an elite QB. All it guarantees is better odds.
This guy!?
We only care about rookie contract, first four years. We do not care about their careers and HoF. We only care about whether they can take us to the championship game and help us win, on a rookie contract.
6-3 and over quarterbacks have appeared significantly more times in a championship game than 6-2 and smaller quarterbacks. More importantly, there have been significantly more 6-3 and over quarterbacks who appeared in a championship game on a rookie contract, which is the only thing we care about since they are only getting a rookie contract. They are not getting a HoF contract or a 15 year contract.
CHAMPIONSHIP HISTORY
In the last 15 years, there have been 60 championship game quarterbacks (AFC and NFC).
Of those 60 appearances:
7/60 have been under 6-2: (5 different QBs)
2004 Michael Vick
2006 Drew Brees
2006 Rex Grossman
2009 Drew Brees
2013 Russ Wilson
2014 Russ Wilson
2017 Case Keenum
13/60 were 6-2: (8 different QBs)
2004 Donovan McNabb
2005 Jake Delhomme
2005 Jake Plummer
2007 Brett Favre
2008 Donovan McNabb
2008 Kurt Warner
2009 Brett Favre
2009 Mark Sanchez
2010 Mark Sanchez
2010 Aaron Rodgers
2014 Aaron Rodgers
2016 Aaron Rodgers
2018 Patrick Mahomes
The rest, 40/60 appearances were with QBs 6-3 and over. (17 diiferent quarterbacks)
Payton Manning
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Matt Hasselbeck
Eli Manning
Phillip Rivers
Joe Flacco
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Matt Ryan
Colin Kapernick
Andrew Luck
Cam Newton
Carson Palmer
Blake Bortles
Nick Foles
Jared Goff
Seventeen is more than thirteen and forty is significantly more than twenty appearances.
ROOKIE CONTRACTS (First four seasons)
Of the 30 quarterbacks who appeared in a championship game in last 15 years, 5/13 who were 6-2 and smaller did that on a rookie contract: Mike Vick, Rex Grossman, Russell Wilson, Mark Sanchez, Pat Mahomes.
2/5 (2/13, 2/30) went to the SB in first four years: Rex Grossman, Russell Wilson
1/5 (1/13, 1/30) won the SB in first four years: Russell Wilson.
Of the 30 quarterbacks who appeared in a championship game in last 15 years, 8/17 who were 6-3 and taller did that on a rookie contract, and they are all bolded above.
5/8 (5/17, 5/30) went to the SB in first four years: Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Colin Kapernick, Jared Goff.
2/8 (2/17, 2/30) won the SB in first four years: Ben and Eli.
SUMMARY
Quarterbacks who are 6-3 and taller appeared in championship game 40 times in 60 opportunities. There were 17 of those quarterbacks, and of those 17 quarterbacks 8 did it on a rookie contract. Five of those eight quarterbacks went on to play in a superbowl on a rookie contract, and two of those won the superbowl.
Quarterbacks who are 6-3 and taller have 100% better success rate (twice as good) in last 15 years of playing in and winning championship games on a rookie contract.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,251
- Reaction score
- 31,911
If ??? your math/research is right you're pretty freaky!
Are you a football physicist?
Whoa a well researched thought out response? It almost makes me think the rumors of a troll in the dungeons aren't true. But what about weight my man? You were pretty adamant about the weight being a "prototypical" 230 lbs but you seem to have left that out. You get an I for incomplete.
PS: If QB's who are 6-3 and taller have a 100% better success rate of playing in and winning a championship game did I miss the championship game we played in during the 6-3 Chad Henne era? I also don't recall a championship game with the 6-4 Ryan Tannehill. I feel like there's some flaws there.
PPS: So I really have to know, in your opinion do you think if all those QB's you listed to be 6'3 or taller were somehow shrunken down to 6'2 and all those QB's you listed to be 6'2 or shorter were somehow blown up to 6'4 that it would change the outcome of those championship games?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,251
- Reaction score
- 31,911
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,251
- Reaction score
- 31,911
Now I know you're fibbing.
Zero chance median is 226.
Have you adjusted for inflation?
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2016
- Messages
- 3,293
- Reaction score
- 5,569
I've been saying, man- yall been sleeping on Largo. I always give him credit for passion even if misguided and he makes good points every now and a good ways away then.
I don't know how QB size came to be an overwhelming statistic. Height/weight doesn't take into account any of the situations those QBs were playing in.