Nfl Qb Position: Absolute Or Relative? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Nfl Qb Position: Absolute Or Relative?

foozool13 said:
You need a top 10 QB to be a contender on a year to year basis.

Otherwise, yeah, you can once in a while make a run here and there like Minny or Jags did.
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As @Danny @TedSlimmJr and @foozool13 have said, it's the biggest piece, and without it sustaining competition at the level needed to compete for a Super Bowl is almost impossible. If you want to build a team that is competitive for a decade, the one irreplaceable piece is a top QB. Just the way it is in the NFL with today's ruleset.

Additionally, as a fan, there is no more enjoyable piece a franchise can get than a good QB. Win or lose, not scoring points isn't fun. I enjoy defensive battles, don't get me wrong, and I can get into a dominant defense. But literally every team is more enjoyable to watch with a good QB. As a fan, I'll watch the game even if we're eliminated … and if we're going to lose, I'd rather lose 40-35 than 6-3.

And the dropoff from QB value to the value of any other position is like falling off a cliff. Even the bad QB's are going to cost a lot, so there is no better bang for the buck than to get a good QB. Get one on his rookie contract, and it's a downright steal.

Do we need a top shelf QB to be Super Bowl competitive for a decade? Yes.

Is the QB the most important position on the field by far? Yes.

Will settling for a mediocre QB set back a franchise for at least half a decade? Yes.

I don't think any of this is really being debated even … we all know it is true deep down inside. The only question is HOW to obtain that QB. Some think our current strategy of competing hard and drafting QB's outside of the top of the draft will yield good results, after all, the extremely rare exceptions like Brady (mid round) and Marino (late first) and the recent short mobile QB's like Wilson suggest that people have found QB's outside of the top of the 1st. But that theory ignores the literally hundreds of failures as well. The real statistic would be the hit-rate … percentage of elite QB's found with picks throughout the draft. It's complex, but the data indicates that your chances of finding that elite QB go up dramatically at the top of the 1st round. To get that draft pick you can either tank or mortgage the future with multiple firsts. Differing viewpoints abound … and everyone has an opinion.

Personally, I know what I want. I want an elite QB who can throw the ball exceptionally well. If it were possible to get another Dan Marino, that would be my solitary goal. Alas, he is unique, truly one of a kind. So, I'm seeking an elite QB, and I'm willing to mortgage the present (2019 season) to get it, so I can preserve the future (additional draft picks needed to trade up to get him if we don't tank). Reasonable minds may differ on how to obtain a QB.
 
The Dolphins must get a QB to begin the rebuild. You cannot even start without a QB.
The Jets fkd around for a few years after Sanchez, all for nothing. Their rebuild started with the QB. It had to.
Same thing with the Browns, they were doing a big fat nothing until they drafted a QB, their rebuild started last season.
You have to get the QB.

The QB cannot be Mayfield, or Murray, or Tua, or Fromm, or Stick. It has to be a prototypical big framed big gunned sucker, who is consistent and efficient. And this year luckily they have a chance to take one.
 
BigNastyFish said:
My point is -- there are dudes who can function effectively in less than ideal situations...

Brady is NOT one of them IMO.

But let's be real -- they all have professional level players around them. But a truly great QB can shine on his own in pretty much any situation. Doesn't mean he's going to win championships over TEAMS that are significantly better -- just means he can carry his team way beyond their "relative level."

Those dudes are exceedingly rare. And I guess some think Tua might be a guy like that? I'm very unsure on that given the superior program he plays in -- loaded with talent etc.

How good would he look in a less than ideal situation? Does the quality of the program and supporting cast "tilt" his evaluation in a positive way? How would he react when things are not so good around him? I think those factors are often overlooked and/or discounted.

Not saying the kid couldn't get it done. But its conjecture either way...
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I know this is an old example, but Neil O'Donnel. An average QB on an unbelievably good team. That said, a top half QB can be successful with a good/elite D, a top run game, AND a top HC. Miami has had none since, well, a long time.

Haven't read all posts yet, but I suspect someone will (correctly) point out consistent SB appearances are by teams with an elite QB. Top playoff teams, . . . not so much. The problem, as a few of us have said, is getting an elite QB is a LOT of luck. Before anyone spins that sentence, I'm not saying teams don't need to try. Only that trying, by itself, means little. There was a post a few weeks ago listing all QBs taken with the top 3 picks for 10-12 years. Maybe 1-2 elite QBs in the group.Again, yes, TRY, but some people make it sound like 'get the best QB this year and, PRESTO, elite QB.'

All that to say, the higher the QB's talent level, the more likely multiple SB appearances. However, DON'T underestimate the importance of the HC and don't fall into the trap of 'elite' QB or keep trying.
 
LargoFin said:
The Dolphins must get a QB to begin the rebuild. You cannot even start without a QB.
The Jets fkd around for a few years after Sanchez, all for nothing. Their rebuild started with the QB. It had to.
Same thing with the Browns, they were doing a big fat nothing until they drafted a QB, their rebuild started last season.
You have to get the QB.

The QB cannot be Mayfield, or Murray, or Tua, or Fromm, or Stick. It has to be a prototypical big framed big gunned sucker, who is consistent and efficient. And this year luckily they have a chance to take one.
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It cannot be Mayfield? You mean the guy who just broke the rookie TD record in 13 games and had one of the worst coaches of all time in Hue Jackson for half the season?
 
superphin said:
It cannot be Mayfield? You mean the guy who just broke the rookie TD record in 13 games and had one of the worst coaches of all time in Hue Jackson for half the season?
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That's right. Mayfield is too short, too many issues in the pocket, and has no extra athletic ability. We do not want that.
We need a big sucker with a big gun who plays from the pocket and who is consistent and efficient. Prototypical and good. Not just good, and not just prototypical.
 
LargoFin said:
That's right. Mayfield is too short, too many issues in the pocket, and has no extra athletic ability. We do not want that.
We need a big sucker with a big gun who plays from the pocket and who is consistent and efficient. Prototypical and good. Not just good, and not just prototypical.
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Size matters to you huh? Do you happen to drive something like this?

maxresdefault.jpg
 
LargoFin said:
That's right. Mayfield is too short, too many issues in the pocket, and has no extra athletic ability. We do not want that.
We need a big sucker with a big gun who plays from the pocket and who is consistent and efficient. Prototypical and good. Not just good, and not just prototypical.
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Mayfield is too short for what exactly? To be successful? He just threw 27 TDs in 13 games which was 11th most in the NFL last year. Issues in the pocket? He had the 7th lowest sack% in the NFL last year with 4.9%.
 
I love the slamming of the Marino years as if it was an era of abject failure. I mean, it can’t compare to the glory years of 2000-2018, but what can? :rolleyes:

Here are some things that haven’t happened in the 19 seasons since Marino retired, yet happened while he was on the team:

Winning a conference championship
Getting to multiple conference championship games
Getting past the second round of the playoffs
Getting to the playoffs in consecutive seasons
Winning the division in consecutive seasons
Winning more than one playoff game a decade
Winning at least 12 games in the regular season

Damn those Marino years sucked.
 
Adam Strange said:
I love the slamming of the Marino years as if it was an era of abject failure. I mean, it can’t compare to the glory years of 2000-2018, but what can? :rolleyes:

Here are some things that haven’t happened in the 19 seasons since Marino retired, yet happened while he was on the team:

Winning a conference championship
Getting to multiple conference championship games
Getting past the second round of the playoffs
Getting to the playoffs in consecutive seasons
Winning the division in consecutive seasons
Winning more than one playoff game a decade
Winning at least 12 games in the regular season

Damn those Marino years sucked.
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I don't think anyone is downplaying Dan's greatness, but is does lend credance to the opinion that one guy can't do it alone.

As great as Shula was, he let the Marino years be a waste, by not fielding an above average defense for over a decade.

We don't necessarily need a top three QB, but it certainly helps.

The reality is, most great QBs are, to some extent, a product of the team around them. They absolutely need, both the physical, and mental tools, but if you put almost any QB in a bad situation, chances are he won't be able to excel.

That said, other posters are absolutely correct. To have a consistently successful franchise, a top QB talent is requirement #1.
 
Adam Strange said:
I love the slamming of the Marino years as if it was an era of abject failure. I mean, it can’t compare to the glory years of 2000-2018, but what can? :rolleyes:

Here are some things that haven’t happened in the 19 seasons since Marino retired, yet happened while he was on the team:

Winning a conference championship
Getting to multiple conference championship games
Getting past the second round of the playoffs
Getting to the playoffs in consecutive seasons
Winning the division in consecutive seasons
Winning more than one playoff game a decade
Winning at least 12 games in the regular season

Damn those Marino years sucked.
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Yea, imagine if he had a running attack and a D to compliment his game???

No way football is a TEAM sport!
 
BigNastyFish said:
Yea, imagine if he had a running attack and a D to compliment his game???

No way football is a TEAM sport!
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The sad thing is, those D's actually had some decent individualy talented guys. The scheme blew big fat baby chunks. I think Olividatti was allergic to tight corner coverage, and we'll timed blitzes.
 
superphin said:
Mayfield is too short for what exactly? To be successful? He just threw 27 TDs in 13 games which was 11th most in the NFL last year. Issues in the pocket? He had the 7th lowest sack% in the NFL last year with 4.9%.
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He wants Brock Osweiler. That's his man. 9 foot tall.
 
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