Offensive game ball: Jay Fiedler and RW's...

[Surferosa]

Im just joking around with you SWS. I know you are just sharing your thoughts about the guys play. People are just very sensitive about Fiedler since hes been the target of so much criticism. There is defeinitely room to criticize the guy, dont get me wrong. But I think what people dont like are generalizations, since they are often subjective and ambiguous by nature.

By stating that hes underthrows his deep passes, you are stating an objective fact that stands on his own. It can be seen in the replay for all those that witnessed the game. The only thing that can be argued here is the relevance of such a point ("big deal it was a completed pass" others can rebut)

But by categorizing him as "journeyman", you are stepping into the realm of the subjective. Its all semantics here, no evidence can prove otherwise. Thats what pisses people off, because all the evidence we bring to the table (see the winning record, the statistics from my last post) cant rebut your claim - because its not based on any kind of proof.

 

[Superself]

Re: Shreds my opinion? Is that possible?

Originally posted by SWS84


..I've been saying all along that I think Jay is a good QB, just not a GREAT QB. As for my definition of journeyman, I meant it to reflect much like someone would in the trades industry. Someone who is much better than a helper ( rookie), but not at the master level (Marino, Elway, Kelly, etc). Believe me, if (I think) a player or coach sucks, I'm not going to try and sugar coat it.




:D :D :D

Just because a QB isn't one of the best ever, he is considered a journeyman? WTF? This doesn't make sense! I consider a QB such as Rodney Peete a journeyman QB. Now, you've redefined the word!

 

[clayton83]

journeyman jay.......................

no, your considerd a journyman qb when you have been run from 4 or 5 teams and spend time out of the leauge because NO ONE wants you.

thats why jay [montana] feidler is a journyman.

does that kinda clear it up a little?

 

[Superself]

Re: journeyman jay.......................

Originally posted by clayton83
no, your considerd a journyman qb when you have been run from 4 or 5 teams and spend time out of the leauge because NO ONE wants you.

thats why jay [montana] feidler is a journyman.

does that kinda clear it up a little?

NO it doesn't. What four to five teams has Fiedler started for?

When does a QB lose this status? Does it stick with him even though he has been a starter for a couple of years? Does it matter that he got a contract extension? Does it matter that he is a winning QB and currently 6th best in the league?

Journeyman my A$$!!

 

[Surferosa]

Rich Gannon was a journeyman QB until he established himself as the leader of the Raiders four years back. Now that ominous title has finally been removed from his resume :)

 

[clayton83]

journy boy.................

you asked, and that is why, like it or not.

he didn't start on those teams because he couldn't beat anyone out to start. he couldn't even make the teams.

who did jay "beat out" in miami to win the job?

 

[ohall]

He beat out Huard...

... you knew that right?

Oliver...

Originally posted by clayton83
you asked, and that is why, like it or not.

he didn't start on those teams because he couldn't beat anyone out to start. he couldn't even make the teams.

who did jay "beat out" in miami to win the job?

 

[ohall]

Kurt Warner...

... and Gannon must be one too, I guess?

Oliver...

Originally posted by Superself


NO it doesn't. What four to five teams has Fiedler started for?

When does a QB lose this status? Does it stick with him even though he has been a starter for a couple of years? Does it matter that he got a contract extension? Does it matter that he is a winning QB and currently 6th best in the league?

Journeyman my A$$!!

 

[ohall]

So what if?

... only 2 or 3 teams cut you, what about 1?

Let's be specific here, if you're going to make stuff up, you might was well get into it. Give it your all why don't ya?

Oliver...

Originally posted by clayton83
no, your considerd a journyman qb when you have been run from 4 or 5 teams and spend time out of the leauge because NO ONE wants you.

thats why jay [montana] feidler is a journyman.

does that kinda clear it up a little?

 

[clayton83]

the journy WILL continue.....................

oooohhh, thats right! thge great damon huard. i forgot about that. shoot, what ws i thinking dissing jay. he IS joe montana.

first off, damon huard was a joke. he is what, 4th string in new england still?

we were desperate for a QB. after jay threw a td pass against us in the jags/marino 62 to 3 fiasco, wanny and co. got a stiffy for jay and signed him.

i remember jay being hurt and missing all but one pre season game. and they still gave him the job over huard. he didn't beat huard out at all, he was getting that job no matter what!!

he is wanny's guy and they will ride him to the end, although i do think the leash is short.

look at this pre season. jay is hurt again, lucas comes in and moves the team with ease and looks in comand of the offense and it doesn't matter. jay is "beating" no one. there is just money and wanny reputation tied up in jay.

oh and HOMER OLIVER, seems to me like jay was on the jets for a nano second before geting run, i think the bungles had him in camp and then ran him after that, then the vikes, run again, then he was at hoffstra [out of the nfl] and thats when his mom or who ever sent those tapes to the teams and he got signed by the jags, who were in the middle of a dispute on weather to keep brunnell the following year, and still unloaded jay to the dolphins. they didn't care either!

and yes, gannon WAS a journyman qb. but he elevated his game, thats the difference.

yeah, i know, jay is better than gannon, he looks just like joe montana, he's going to the pro bowl, blah, blah, blah............

 

[Surferosa]

Who would YOU rather have Clayton? You never answer the question, you just keep on dishing out criticism.

You were probably begging for Brad Johnson when he was available, ready to give him a $10 million signing bonus, eh? How about Elvis Grbac, big, strong armed QB with a pro bowl on his resume?

You probably wanted trent Green and Hassleback, and would have given up a first found pick for either, no?

Whats the common denominator here? 1) None of these guys panned out 2) All were costly acquistions in temrs of both money and draft picks.

Youre very good at complaining my friend, but what do you suggest in the meantime? Brett Favre? Should we give the Ron Woolf a call and see what we can do to pry him away from the Packers? How about Peyton Manning? We could probably get him for cheap, eh?

Make a suggestion, Im listening...

 

[Superself]

Re: the journy WILL continue.....................

Originally posted by clayton83

and yes, gannon WAS a journyman qb. but he elevated his game, thats the difference.

yeah, i know, jay is better than gannon, he looks just like joe montana, he's going to the pro bowl, blah, blah, blah............

I see it didn't take you a long time to figure out who was performing better than Jay. Not hard to remember the top 10 QBs....and guess what, Jay is doing better than Brunell right now! Go figure!

Are you saying that Jay hasn't elevated his game? Since he has been with Miami, we've all seen definite improvement in Jay in several areas.

BTW, who has more wins? Gannon or Jay Fiedler? Isn't that the bottom line?

Jay just may make it to the pro bowl....if he keeps getting tDs!

 

[Surferosa]

Re: Re: the journy WILL continue.....................

Originally posted by Superself


Are you saying that Jay hasn't elevated his game? Since he has been with Miami, we've all seen definite improvement in Jay in several areas.

Very true. Case in point - Two years ago a bad game for Jay would be 150 yards and 3 points total for the Miami offense. Now whats the yardstick? Jay throws for 300 YARDS, the offense scores 30 POINTS, but we lose baecause jay has 4 int's. Seems like weve raised the bar a bit, no?

 

[clayton83]

more jay hype..................

SURFER: no, i didn't want any of those guys, although brad johnson would have been intriguing for the right price. he was a good qb under norv and knows alot more about norv's offense than jay. but not for big money.

you guys are so wrapped up in jay you miss the point. i absolutely know why jay is here, we didn't have a lot of options. and wanny was the one who wanted hasselbeck, not me. i did not support that move at all, not because i thought jay was better, but because i didn't want to give up the #1 pic.

all i have ever said is that i don't think jay can take this team where it wants to go. i don't think jay has the game to run norv's complete offense. you are seeing a very dumbed down version of it right now. we are going into week 6 and we are not doing much different with the offense thn we have in week 1. norv has said he wants the offense to progress so he can install more facetts of his game plan. the overall passing game in the hands of jay is shaky at best.

and no, i do not think jay has elevated his game. i think norv has givin him simple high percentage stuff to keep him out of trouble, it is norv's plan, not jays progress. but norv's plan is much more involved and i see norv running out of patients real soon if jay keeps us handicaped with his short stuff only, ok player if we are not behind, run msut be working game.

what jay needs to do is prove something in denver by coming out of the gate and butchering denver down the field. we need to start scarring teams down the field or ricky is going to have a lot of 36 carry games. we have to start showing we are not one dimentional. denver can stop our run and they will unless jay hits the money shots and moves those lb's and safety's off the line.

i have never seen so many guys so ga-ga over one mediocre player in my life. it is becoming scarry how some are so obsesed with jay. i could see it if he was 24 and this was his first team. but the guy is 30 something, has had 3 years and has tapped out. he has been with other clubs and was run.

so no, there is no trade for manning, or farve out there, i know why jay is here. but that doesn't mean we have to stand pat. sage rosenfels was a great move and could be the future.

SUPERSELF: your telling me you would rather have feidler than gannon? that jay is a better qb than rich gannon? you need to watch some raider games.

and jay is riding the team, the team isn't riding jay. jay isn't responsible for every finz win.

 

[Surferosa]

NO, Jay is not better than Gannon. I agree with you there. Thats a very silly point.

But I disagree that the guy has "Tapped out". Hes on pace for 39 friggin TD's this year, when he had only 14 in his first year and 24 last year. This is where we disagree - not about his accomplishments until now, but his continued impovement. That his learning curve and his playmaking ability keeps on getting better. That he made plays in the New England game - looking to second third and fourth receivers before making the right decision (watch his TD run and his TD Pass to Chambers) that he wasnt able to make last year.

Thats improvement Clayton. And that improvement is what is getting everyone exctied, not because he threw for 190 yards. But I guess you dont see it that way. You dont look at all the little things hes done to improve himself, youve made up your mind that hes tapped out already.

ANd BTW noones comparing him to Montana except for you. If one says that Gadsden made a "Jerry Rice like catch", it is not comparing him to Jerry Rice. Its a poor argument. Come on, man.