Agreed- I don't remember what Haden ran the 40 in, but it doesn't matter- he's one hell of a player. 4.53 for Joe Adams shocked me- 4.44 doesn't do his game speeed justice either, at all. What does concern me is, in light of how valued and scrutinzed these 40 times are- if he didn't prepare properly maybe it's a sign of stupidity or laziness- and that's just a guess, a caveat. I have nothing to back that up- maybe he just can't run the 40 well. But when I've seen the guy play, I see more of a 4.3 guy- or better- than a 4.44 or God forbid a 4.53. Just ludicrous.
official 2012 combine discussion thread...
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Pachyderm_Wave
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It was just a scope, he'd be playing right now if he had a game. It's just precautionary.
He sustained the knee injury in RB drills before the national championship game, which makes his 96 yard peformance against LSU even more impressive.
He has a great body of work and plenty of game film for teams to look at. He'll be ready for Bama's pro day.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I think he's probably been working on other things that he needed to improve on more rather than his 40 time. Like route running and trying to make his hands more consistent. Those were the things that he needed the most work on.
Joe Adams has football speed. A lot of these other guys only have track speed, and it shows in their technique when they run the 40. Their football speed isn't in the same solar system as Joe Adams'.
The guy with the most impressive combine so far out of anybody there has been Oklahoma TE James Hannah. He tested through the roof in every category, especially for his size. But he's yet another example of a guy who just doesn't play the game of football anywhere near how he tests athletically. He struggles just to catch the football consistently.
dolfan_101
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God damn how good is Andrew Luck? This guy is so money it's not even fair.
Branch, Coples, Cox, Irvin and Ingram all looking good so far today with 40 times
http://walterfootball.com/combine2012DL.php
http://walterfootball.com/combine2012DL.php
I'm probably in the minority on this one, but Coples worries me as an underachiever whose lack of production has to be justified by his supporters and he comes across with a gung ho attitude that I find a bit dubious. Is he talented? Sure. But at #8, in the absence of a trade down, I'd take the elite OG DeCastro and be done with it. I'd imagine that he'd not only do a great job protecting Moore or whomever plays QB, but he'll end up being one of Reggie Bush's best friends, helping to turn good runs into great ones with his blocking at the LOS and downfield. Dude is elite- physically, mentally, discipline wise, the whole ball of wax. He'll help set the tone. I could care less if it's playing it safe this time, take the sure thing, the truly great player where we need help, and the new salary cap dynamics are a compelling part of the argument as well. If you want to take a chance- trade up and get Weeden.
And if Brandon Mosely is available in the 4th rd- grab him. Still wondering on how far Joe Adams might slide as a result of that deceptively bad 40 time. Dude is sick fast, regardless of what he clocked in indy.
Was really surprised to see that time next to K. Wright's name, but I agree with Slimm. He plays fast. I expected him to run a low 4.4 at worst. I'd still consider him in a trade-down scenario, and I still like him as the best compliment to Marshall in the draft. Of course, if we're going Manning and Wayne comes with Manning, we won't be drafting a WR very high.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I've looked at a lot of tape of Quinton Coples and I do not see an underachieving player. I see an underachieving defense, and a system that unlike a year ago did not necessarily put him in position to collect all the big plays by putting him closer to the ball. Their ability to cover the quick passing game was just not there, and there's not much Quinton can do about that. You look at the Mizzou game, that's what you see...the Mizzou offense hitting up the UNC defense with the ground game and quick passing game. If Mizzou tried to run at Coples, unless they isolated him and forced him to make a two-way decision on an option, he swallowed the ball consistently. And even though most of the Mizzou passing game was all quick game with the ball out in 2 seconds, which he couldn't do anything about from his End position, he did find a way to make a high impact play closing on James Franklin and hitting his arm as he threw, which caused an interception.
Hoops and I debated about what Coples was going to show at the Combine. He didn't think Coples would show as well at the Combine as Jason Pierre-Paul. I believe he will, and he already appears to be having a better Combine.
To be fair, I don't think hoops realized Pierre-Paul showed up to the Combine as mediocre as he did. But that in itself is part of the problem with the JPP comparisons. People are contaminated by hindsight on Pierre-Paul. They remember him as a high motor player that didn't take plays off like Coples is often accused of doing. That wasn't really the case. They remember him being super explosive at the Combine. There was infamous footage of him doing a series of handsprings on the field once, but his Combine showing was just sort of "good" which highlights another aspect of JPP's draft stock that goes unremembered which were the consistent rumors that originated out of the South Florida locker room that JPP was not a leader, and was a slack off worker.
Similarly, you've got this picture people like to paint of Coples as a guy who doesn't want it, who takes plays off, lax effort, etc. It's a typical accusation levied at unusually large, unusually explosive players. I'm not phased. I saw Jason Pierre-Paul overcoming his demons, and I see the same with Coples.
Hoops and I debated about what Coples was going to show at the Combine. He didn't think Coples would show as well at the Combine as Jason Pierre-Paul. I believe he will, and he already appears to be having a better Combine.
To be fair, I don't think hoops realized Pierre-Paul showed up to the Combine as mediocre as he did. But that in itself is part of the problem with the JPP comparisons. People are contaminated by hindsight on Pierre-Paul. They remember him as a high motor player that didn't take plays off like Coples is often accused of doing. That wasn't really the case. They remember him being super explosive at the Combine. There was infamous footage of him doing a series of handsprings on the field once, but his Combine showing was just sort of "good" which highlights another aspect of JPP's draft stock that goes unremembered which were the consistent rumors that originated out of the South Florida locker room that JPP was not a leader, and was a slack off worker.
Similarly, you've got this picture people like to paint of Coples as a guy who doesn't want it, who takes plays off, lax effort, etc. It's a typical accusation levied at unusually large, unusually explosive players. I'm not phased. I saw Jason Pierre-Paul overcoming his demons, and I see the same with Coples.
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ckparrothead
Premium Member
I saw a specific problem with Kendall Wright's 40 technique that may have affected his 40 the same way it affected Joe Haden's a few years ago. I don't think the 40 was indicative of his speed in this case. I question the thumbs involved in that 4.61 official time, since I believe his first unofficial time was a 4.45. That's too wide of a disparity, and there was enough weirdness going on in his technique at the start of the run for me to throw the time away.
Good post, as Coples certainly is talented. Who was that DL a few years back who had that youtube clip of him jumping out of a pool of water that was kind of amazing? I forget his name, I wonder what happened to him, I just remeber that athletic wise that dude looked elite. He might have been a DT out of San Jose St or something like that.
It cuts both ways- Coples could inded end up being great. I've been saying the same thing about DeCastro for a while- I wouldn't even bring him up as a possible top 10 pick if he wasn't so damned elite.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Jarron Gilbert. Not sure what happened to him from a mental standpoint...but I've heard some suggestion that from a work ethic standpoint, he's just not getting it. He, like Coples and Malik Jackson, was a Defensive End that was put at Defensive Tackle just to get him closer to the ball, allowing him to make more plays on the ball. Gilbert had experience as a Defensive End and had actually looked compelling at that position, before switching to Defensive Tackle and looking even more compelling.
And you want to talk about a Combine workout, he had a heck of a workout. He was 6052 and 288 lbs, ran a 4.81 with a 1.67 ten yard split, 28 bench reps, 35.5 inch vertical, 9'11" broad jump...just a fast, explosive player. He was the son of former New Orleans Saint Daren Gilbert.
He was drafted in the 3rd round by the Bears and eventually tossed. The Jets picked him up and kicked him around the practice squad a while, eventually trying and failing to make him a blocking TE before kicking him to the curb. The Bills picked him up at the end of the 2011 season. He appeared in one game for the Jets at the end of the 2010 season (22 snaps) and had a TFL. A boat load of physical talent but I'm guessing terrible work ethic and/or attitude torpedoed him.
Wouldn't be surprised if he keeps getting chances, though.
And you want to talk about a Combine workout, he had a heck of a workout. He was 6052 and 288 lbs, ran a 4.81 with a 1.67 ten yard split, 28 bench reps, 35.5 inch vertical, 9'11" broad jump...just a fast, explosive player. He was the son of former New Orleans Saint Daren Gilbert.
He was drafted in the 3rd round by the Bears and eventually tossed. The Jets picked him up and kicked him around the practice squad a while, eventually trying and failing to make him a blocking TE before kicking him to the curb. The Bills picked him up at the end of the 2011 season. He appeared in one game for the Jets at the end of the 2010 season (22 snaps) and had a TFL. A boat load of physical talent but I'm guessing terrible work ethic and/or attitude torpedoed him.
Wouldn't be surprised if he keeps getting chances, though.
In the little I saw day one I was impressed with Michael Egnew of Missouri. Although not rated high I thought he possessed nice hands and executed the passing drills the best of the TEs there.
WelcomeBack
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Wow Nick Perry's numbers.
This is from, uh, Omar, but it's been bantered round by more than just him and Mayock:
"Defensive end Quinton Coples knows he needs an image makeover. He knows the film clearly shows he played to not get hurt in his senior season at North Carolina. Player who make a business decision like that usually do it again, and again. That’s why teams are hesitant about declaring him one of this draft’s elite talent. Athletically Coples is a freak of nature. But coaches are scared of players who easily turn it on and off. I’d rather have a undersized player like South Carolina’s Melvin Ingram, who has a Ferrari motor, than a Bentley with a Honda engine."
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sport...ins-lessons-learned-from-the-nfl-combine.html
I read an interview that Coples gave, and I just wasn't sold by how he went about it. The guy is obvioulsy immensely talented, but Gilbert, Alonzo Spelman, et al- why take the chance? Sometimes it works- Darrell Gardener for example (but we could have had Ray Lewis), sometimes it doesn't with guys like Gilbert and Spellman, and maybe Coples. Michael Brockers is intriguing as hell, too.
Any one who knows me knows that I'm hardly risk adverse, but in this situation I'd just rather have what might be the surest thing in the whole draft, a guy who has All-Pro written all over him. Maybe take Jake Bequette later in the draft for a DE, I don't know. But make sure that a premium drat pick sticks- I don't think that you can go wrong with DeCastro. Maybe Blackmon does fall due to a possible bad 40, who knows. But he's a stud as well whom I'd be much more comfortable with over Coples.