Amare has shown no signs of any problems, unless you are in the training room and have some info that others do not, wait and see if Donnie gets his extension and the time in the sun comment was about how the heat should have a year or 2 competition free , at least from the knicks, by all "expert" accounts. Although the bulls and celts seem to be a different immediate threat. After a year or two I do believe the Knicks WILL be a threat like the bulls and celts. I believe that addresses all your concerns, you seem to follow the knicks more than one would expect though so you might have some more points that need addressing.
Official: Melo to the Knicks
- Thread starter tylerdolphin
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Amare has shown no signs of any problems, unless you are in the training room and have some info that others do not, wait and see if Donnie gets his extension and the time in the sun comment was about how the heat should have a year or 2 competition free , at least from the knicks, by all "expert" accounts. Although the bulls and celts seem to be a different immediate threat. After a year or two I do believe the Knicks WILL be a threat like the bulls and celts. I believe that addresses all your concerns, you seem to follow the knicks more than one would expect though so you might have some more points that need addressing.
jree
Active Roster
I don't just pay attention to the Heat. I am a huge fan of basketball. Being an athlete and someone who used to play ball, I triy to watch all players who intrigue me on the court. From Ewing and Mourning to Kobe and Wade, I appreciate the game. I have nothing against the Knicks or any other team. I respect individual players the same way I don't like certain individual players. Its actually sports fans that I don't like. I hope that answers your question on why I pay attention to the knicks or any other team in the NBA. The Heat just happen to be my favorite team. So if your trying to be a smartass by implying I pay attention to them because I have "concerns" or some type of obssession, stop it cause your a Jet fan replying to a basketball thread started on a Dolphins website.
Dude, I hate the Jets. Love the Dolphins first and foremost, then the NY Giants second. Also like The Mets, Knicks and Islanders. Now you know.All I am saying is wait before you nail the coffin on the Knicks. Give us a year or two. Moves keep coming. Lots of Haters for the Knicks now coming out of the woodwork when they are headed in the right direction. I apologize if I was in error if I mistook you for one of them.
jree
Active Roster
Big misunderstanding. I only took offense b/c A) I misundertood the time in the sun reference and B) I thought you were jets fan.
Like I said, I don't hate on any team except maybe the Celtics
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
Bill Simmons makes about as good an argument as can be made for why you do the trade every time. This goes for both 'Melo and Williams.
Clipse
mediocrity sucks
And history also shows bottom tier defenses don't win championships.
jree
Active Roster
I completely disagree with the Shaq trade. He was not the reason the Heat won. This team would have been better in the long run with Odom and Butler playing alongside Wade
Ricky_Fan34
Suns and Fins superfan
how about those Knicks? Lost to cleveland tonight hahahah
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
They wouldn't have had the 15 win season but they also wouldn't have had the championship. That's the whole point.....the good players might get you into the playoffs, but it takes a couple greats to win a title.
I'll be one of the first to point out how 'Zo was the better player in the finals but the Heat would have never gotten that far without Shaq. There were plenty of games in the regular and post season where they leaned on him and he carried the team. That's something Alonzo, Odom, and Butler could never do.
They probably would have won more regular season games with Odom and Butler. And 5 yrs later, if Odom and Wade had matured the way they have, they might have become a formidable duo. Remember it took Odom a decade and an olympic appearance before he decided to show up and play every game.
jree
Active Roster
I think that odom and bultler team was more than capable of winning a title together. That Shaq Heat team was one of the worst teams in history to ever win one. Arison and Riley got desperate and went the Marlins championship route instead of slowly building a contendor. I knew it was going to bite us in the *** in the long run bringing Shaq here. I've always hated Shaq and I always will. We didn't even benefit from that 15 win season cause our draft pick doesn't even play for us anymore. And Odom turned his life around when he left LA. He started to play when he got to south beach and I was genuinley upset to see him and Caron go in favor of that fat *** Shaq. If anything I think it set us back a couple of years just for a quick fix.
I understand completely what the point of the article is and agree with every single move except the Shaq move. I do think that bringing Melo in is something that the Knicks needed to do. I don't disagree with this move at all. I don't see this lineup ever turning into a championship team. A contendor yes, winner, not so much. I don't agree with the D-Will move. If there was some kind of guarantee that he was going to stay, hell yeah. But since there isn't, it could very well turn into something that will hurt them for a very long time. Phrokorov is turing into a very aggressive owner so that could spell good things for them but who knows.
I understand completely what the point of the article is and agree with every single move except the Shaq move. I do think that bringing Melo in is something that the Knicks needed to do. I don't disagree with this move at all. I don't see this lineup ever turning into a championship team. A contendor yes, winner, not so much. I don't agree with the D-Will move. If there was some kind of guarantee that he was going to stay, hell yeah. But since there isn't, it could very well turn into something that will hurt them for a very long time. Phrokorov is turing into a very aggressive owner so that could spell good things for them but who knows.
jree
Active Roster
how about those Knicks? Lost to cleveland tonight hahahah
I didn't get to watch the game but I watched the highlights. Is it me or does it seem that Melo faked that elbow injury?
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
Yeh but it worked. I can see arguing against it if they hadn't won the title but at the end of the day they walked away with those rings and now this franchise can count itself amongst the few in this league that have won it all. There is a long list of franchises with guys just as good or better than Wade that never won anything because they were unable to find that complementary star.
Odom was always extremely gifted and flighty as hell. Even when the Lakers were winning that title you had no idea what Odom you were getting.....flirting with a triple double with the offense running through him one night and the next he takes 3 shots and never ventures into the post. It was ok when he was cast as a 6th man and they had three other guys they could lean on but he was never meant to be the primary or secondary option. Some sort of switch was flipped during the world's and for some reason we've seen a completely different character this year.
As far as biting the Heat in their arse.....I don't see it. Riley built one contender, sucked for three years, and built another. And if everything had gone to plan, they would have sucked for one year, landed Rose, and built a contender around him and Wade instead. I don't see the downside anywhere in going for broke in the NBA.
As long as you believe the assertion that a team needs a top 10 player to win a title, which has been pretty consistent over the last 70 yrs so I don't know why you wouldn't, it makes perfect sense. Just add up the probability of acquiring a player of Deron's caliber with those two picks and Favors and compare it to whatever percentage chance you think there is that Deron will stick around. One of those picks will be in the 8-15 range, which I see as having about a 1% chance of landing a perennial all star. The other will be in the late 20s which generates for all intensive purposes zero all stars.
jree
Active Roster
Well thats the thing. The fact that they won a title puts all arguments to rest. I just don't like the manner in which they won it. Its my opinion that is heavily weighed with my hatred for shaq being a selfish player. I knew he was going to tear apart the locker room and I knew those band-aid pieces they placed around Wade were just that. The year they won the championship, Shaq barely played through the season. But like I said, the fact that they won the finals puts any and all arguments to rest.
Could you imagine if those lottery balls fell for the Heat. We'd have a backcourt of Wade and Rose. I get chills thinking about that.
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
I was skeptical at the time and still wonder if it would have worked. Rose seems to have that drive to be great, and I think he'd succeed anywhere....still I think it would have taken them a while to learn how to coexist. There are two 7 yr vets who are among the most talented players in the world on this team now and they're still trying to figure it out 60 games into the season. Those two would have put on one hell of a show though.
If Wade wasn't brilliant for a 4 game stretch, if Mourning didn't come back and play so well, if Riley hadn't pulled off the miracle trade that landed him two starters and a key backup for Eddie Jones, if Payton hadn't fallen into Riley's lap, if Damon Jones didn't have a career year...........there were a lot of things that needed to go right for them to win that title that had nothing to do with Shaq because you're right, they weren't that great of a team. But they won the title, and that justifies it all. The Shaq trade could have and came very close to being a disaster, then again on the other hand it came very close to netting the Heat two titles which would have put it near the top of that list of superstar thefts.
In my opinion and I think Riley's if they had kept that core of Odom, Wade, and Butler together it would have been very difficult and taken an incredible amount of luck to go from playoff to title contenders. I think they would have needed one of those blind luck trades.....'Sheed, Gasol, Garnett.
If Wade wasn't brilliant for a 4 game stretch, if Mourning didn't come back and play so well, if Riley hadn't pulled off the miracle trade that landed him two starters and a key backup for Eddie Jones, if Payton hadn't fallen into Riley's lap, if Damon Jones didn't have a career year...........there were a lot of things that needed to go right for them to win that title that had nothing to do with Shaq because you're right, they weren't that great of a team. But they won the title, and that justifies it all. The Shaq trade could have and came very close to being a disaster, then again on the other hand it came very close to netting the Heat two titles which would have put it near the top of that list of superstar thefts.
In my opinion and I think Riley's if they had kept that core of Odom, Wade, and Butler together it would have been very difficult and taken an incredible amount of luck to go from playoff to title contenders. I think they would have needed one of those blind luck trades.....'Sheed, Gasol, Garnett.
Fin_Frenzy_84
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So are the bulls still not elite?