Section126
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Okay...fair enough...then our Defense would have put us in the playoffs at 9-7.
Our "defense" isn't old!!!
- Thread starter Finole
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Okay...fair enough...then our Defense would have put us in the playoffs at 9-7.
TampaFinsFan01
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Ok. 9-7 and a wildcard team. And you have to think based on how we've played that would be a quick exit. No better than when Wannstedt was here.
Section126
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of course...because our offense sucks. But that is a fact...with one unit (our special teams was weak as well) we would have made the playoffs.
DolfanISS
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The bottom line hear is are defense is very good, but sometimes you need some help from your offense. Anyone who doesn't blame this seasons debacles 100% on a very weak and pathatic offensive (I mean really offensive) unit didn't watch the games. Someone mentioned tying the Jets, only to have the defense give up a big play and blow the game. That's true, but let's not forget we tied the Jets at 10 whopping points. The saddest part is we had the running game going yet the passing game was so anemic we still couldn't put up more than 10 points. In the 2nd Bills game we lined up and jammed the ball down Buffalo's throat and they couldn't stop it. Unfortunately, our passing game was so inept (don't give me the weather as JP Losman did just fine) we couldn't even score. Buffalo obviously keyed the running game, once they realizede we had NO CHANCE to throw, and shut down our offense for the rest of the day. The biggest thing that needs to be fixed on this football team is the passing game, everybody involved needs to step up or be replaced. IMHO, it's really sad when you have the running game going buit still can't pass or score.
Do Bills fans realize they won one more game than we did last year????? Ever since their win in that 2nd game they've been coming in here and pointing out all of the flaws on our team not realizing they won 1 more game than we did. Not to mention we certainly beat more playoff teams than they did (Chicago, Pats, Chiefs). The Bills are headed in the right direction but let's not act like they are lights years ahead of the fins and it will be impossible for that to swing naxt year.
3rd point is Lewis vs Thomas. In 06 Lewis had more picks and sacks than Thomas but Thomas had more passes defended, forced fumbles, total and solo tackles and tackles for losses. So maybe Lewis has more tackles for 3 or 4 yard gains to Zacks tackles for 5 or 6 yard gains (don't know if they track that stuff but I watched 0 Ravens games this year so I couldn't tell you) but the guys are pretty close. What I find interesting is that when Lewis was struggling (after the Super Bowl years) all I heard from the media was about how Ray didn't have the horses in front of him anymore and it was affecting his play. I almost shed tears for poor Ray Lewis, but then I realized Zach was able to maintain the same level of play with Bryan Robinson and Jeff Zgonina in front of him. Interesting.
Do Bills fans realize they won one more game than we did last year????? Ever since their win in that 2nd game they've been coming in here and pointing out all of the flaws on our team not realizing they won 1 more game than we did. Not to mention we certainly beat more playoff teams than they did (Chicago, Pats, Chiefs). The Bills are headed in the right direction but let's not act like they are lights years ahead of the fins and it will be impossible for that to swing naxt year.
3rd point is Lewis vs Thomas. In 06 Lewis had more picks and sacks than Thomas but Thomas had more passes defended, forced fumbles, total and solo tackles and tackles for losses. So maybe Lewis has more tackles for 3 or 4 yard gains to Zacks tackles for 5 or 6 yard gains (don't know if they track that stuff but I watched 0 Ravens games this year so I couldn't tell you) but the guys are pretty close. What I find interesting is that when Lewis was struggling (after the Super Bowl years) all I heard from the media was about how Ray didn't have the horses in front of him anymore and it was affecting his play. I almost shed tears for poor Ray Lewis, but then I realized Zach was able to maintain the same level of play with Bryan Robinson and Jeff Zgonina in front of him. Interesting.
vt_dolfan
E tū iho nei, tū iho nei, hī!
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And our defense will continue to respond by being among the tops in the league....
TampaFinsFan01
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I'm not arguing that our defense wasn't good. It was. It wasn't good enough to carry the team.
And, I would argue, the best players on the defense, at least those who have played the most, are 30 or older. Keith Traylor probably isn't going to get any better. Kevin Carter probably isn't going to get any better. Same with Vonnie Holliday. JT is considered retiring, which leads me to believe he won't be here past 2008. ZT is probably going to retire in the next couple of years.
We have some young guys who have played some. If Rod Wright turns out to be a good player, if Evans can play, if Roth continues to develop...those are things that would bode well for us being a contender. But those aren't sure bets.
PhinsRock
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I couldn't care less what the media thinks about the age of our defense, we ranked 4th in the league on defense, if that's old, I'll take it!
TampaFinsFan01
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Ok. But the question is how long will these guys be able to maintain their quality of play?
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I admit tampa,i debated you on many accounts about saban,I WAS WRONG AND YOU WERE RIGHT,, man that sucks to admit
Section126
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JT said that he will retire when Tom Brady can outrun him. He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Neither is ZT. They are both playing at a high level.
As for the "carrying" point...that IS EXACTLY what I am telling you...if we had a mediocre offense..our defense would have carried us to the playoffs. you said it yourself...17 points a game....that's it...that is all they needed to get us into the playoffs.
I don't get what you are trying to say....they are good...they will be good...they will get better with youth...We have a championship defense. We can use another DE and a CB. Depth through the draft at LB and DT.
You really underestimate how bad our offense was.
Vertical Limit
Active Roster
Our defense isn't old at all. I'm tired of hearing that. 27 the average age? How is that old? Are we suppose to have a bunch of rookies in our defense or something?
I am tired of people complaining about our secondary too. Our secondary is fine. Perhaps if we had an offense that can stay on the field and control the clock, we wouldn't have to depend on our secondary all the time. Sure they gave up a good amount of big plays, but our opponents have also OWNED us in time of possession thanks to horrible inconsistent play calling from our offensive coordinator. You can't expect the defense to shut them out all the time, it's a team and we need an offense to balance out the defense.
So with that said, please stop the "WE MUST DRAFT DEFENSE IN THE 1ST ROUND" crap, because last I remember, our defense is ranked 4th and our offense is ranked 20th, which IMO is still an overrated rank for our offense, as we didn't put up many points to show for it. Our offense needs much help, and it starts at quarterback.
I am tired of people complaining about our secondary too. Our secondary is fine. Perhaps if we had an offense that can stay on the field and control the clock, we wouldn't have to depend on our secondary all the time. Sure they gave up a good amount of big plays, but our opponents have also OWNED us in time of possession thanks to horrible inconsistent play calling from our offensive coordinator. You can't expect the defense to shut them out all the time, it's a team and we need an offense to balance out the defense.
So with that said, please stop the "WE MUST DRAFT DEFENSE IN THE 1ST ROUND" crap, because last I remember, our defense is ranked 4th and our offense is ranked 20th, which IMO is still an overrated rank for our offense, as we didn't put up many points to show for it. Our offense needs much help, and it starts at quarterback.
Finole
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Zgonina and Traylor are the two oldest guys on the defense. And Zgonina isn't a starter. Both of them are most likely done after this year. Just the loss of those two alone reduces the average age of our defense by a whole year! Wright, Vickerson, or Evans will replace them.
Spragan will be replaced by a rookie this year.
Holliday, Carter, and Wilkinson (also not a starter) are all old. But I hope we keep all 3 of them.
That leaves JT, who is in his prime, and Zach, who had another great year.
So if our defensive starters look like this...
DE Kevin Carter (33) or Matt Roth (24)
DE Jason Taylor (32)
DT Fred Evans (23) or Rod Wright (22)
DT Vonnie Holliday (31)
SLB ROOKIE (22)
MLB Zach Thomas (33)
WLB Channing Crowder (23)
CB Will Allen (28)
CB Travis Daniels (24)
SS Yeremiah Bell (28)
FS Jason Allen (23)
Then the average age of our defense would be 26 years old!!! That's way on the right side of 30.
Do we need to draft an eventual replacement for ZT this year and JT next year? Yes.
Is our entire defense old just because the two of them are old? No!
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tampa,you were right about saban all along,,,, i must say this has been an enjoyable thread, finole i think makes some good points and so do you tampa,i'am not to aware of your past so i'am non bias,if i may analyze for one moment it seems to me that you do not include hope or pontification in your analysis its more in the now which i respect as well, well a lot of us do including myself,i think daunte is gonna come back and be incredible,why do i think that,because thats what my football iq tells me,and i will include that in my future analysis,you have a unique perspective as far as this thread is concerned,i enjoy it keep it up.
Finole
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Thank you! Yes!
We should draft LT Levi Brown in the 1st round, because Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn will be gone by the time we get to pick. If Brian Brohm and/or JaMarcus Russell declare, they will probably be taken by #9 as well.
Then we draft a Center in the 2nd round freeing up Hadnot to go back to where he's best - Guard.
Then we can pick up your guy, Tyler Palko, in the 3rd round.
Some other things to consider - If Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett are still on the board, do we draft a WR?
Also, if DE Gaines Adams or LB Paul Posluszny are still available when it's time for us to pick, it would be hard to pass them up. Because while I don't think our entire defense is old. JT and ZT are old. And Adams or Posluszny would be the most likely to eventually fill their shoes. What do you think?
Enforcerfin33
Los Lonely Boys the Return....
All things considered, I say how about we just take the best player still available, I mean good god this is going to be a deep, draft, only 8 playeres removed, there has to be someone left that we can take that will help us.....and what about the beefy lineman from Wisconsin?? Thomas, I think? He would be a very nice addition.