Philbin and Ireland were "not entirely convinced" he would beat out Moore (Flynn) | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Philbin and Ireland were "not entirely convinced" he would beat out Moore (Flynn)

Once again you point out all the positives and none of the negatives, like fumbles that lost us 3 games, a pedestrian under 200 yards passing per game (not good enough in this league), his horid play at the end of games, and inability to beat even slightly above average teams. He also has below average arm strength and pocket presence. A QBR is great when combined with other positive factors. A QBR with a guy averaging less than 200 yards passing per game and not accounting for a plethora of fumbles, especially in critical moments doesn't mean anything but a 6 and 6 record, 6-7 counting the Chargers game.

If he had below average arm strength he wouldn't have ranked 4th in pure long ball accuracy in the league now would he? His pocket presence was fine, I've seen him 3x live, how many times have you? Please indicate specifically which games he lost because of his fumbles? Then let's go over how many games Marshall lost for him as a result of his end zone drops, okay? Oh, and I seem to remember the defense, especially vs a predictable Tebow 2pt play, costing us that and other games.

Bradley did not beat a winning team all regular season. Ryan only beat 2 and one of them was TN during his last 9 games and only then because of a fluky ending vs Houston in game 16. During that 9 game stretch, Ryan beat teams with a .302 winning average; Moore beat teams with .439 winning average. Moore had less fumbles translate into turnovers than Bradford and Sanchez, the same amount as Flacco and only 1 more than Rivers, Roethlesburger. And that's playing with sieves like Columbo and Carey vs overall better protection for most everyone else. Again, I was there, were you to see the difference between Moore and Henne in the "it factor" which translated into body language, taking charge, encouraging the troops, in giving atta boys, in overall interaction with his offense vs sitting like a bump on a log? It was an eye opener and I say that because, while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, you are as obsessive now in taking every opportunity to attack Moore as you have consistently been in rising to every opportunity to defend or rationalize Henne literally until the day he went down and Moore, without his or Ryan's benefit of TC first snaps, took over.

Considering you spent all that time, were faulting others for Henne's shortcomings, or excusing his as circumstantial you had become more or less a lone voice; the difference here is that my voice is as loud but is also is far from as singular as was yours which should suggest something to you..but either way the analogy remains.,

Lots of folks still hold Ryan up as an ideal. Fact is, over the last 9 games, both went 6-3, Moore beat teams with a cumulative .439 winning % vs Ryan's .302, Ryan beat 9-7(by a fluke)TN as a winning team vs Moore none; Ryan lost 2X to NO and once to Houston; Moore in this stretch after he got his sea legs under him lost to Superbowl bound NE and 8-8 Eagles and Cowboys. True over that stretch, Moore did not beat a winning team, but by the same token, he sure didn't lose to a losing team either!

Given all that, unlike Sparano, I am all for a fair and spirited TC competition. I personally believe that if Moore was allowed to compete last season, we'd be playing for the playoffs instead of a spoiler in game 16 vs the jest. This season, let the chips fall where they may. Moore deserves that, especially if it's against retread QBs like Garrard, or 1 game wonders like Flynn, or the next tasty flavor like Tannehill or Weeden. Let the best QB win and it's the fans who are ahead of the game. Anything wrong with that?
 
we will never know the truth but I suspect damage control. If Philbin didnt think much of Flynn why did he waste time bringing him in when he knew he would not be taking a backup contract. So they seemed quite convinced that Alex Smith would beat him out since they offered 3 years 26 million.

Nonsense. Before Flynn even visited there were multiple reports saying the Dolphins were low balling him. If you want to think that's because Ireland is an idiot, I won't be shocked. To me it's far more likely Ireland listened to Philbin and based off of that Philbin obviously didn't think as highly as some thought he may have.

If you are a new HC, it is very important to get a QB you trust so you can hitch your star to them. Philbin must know his future is linked to the QB he chooses. I'm very confident Ireland will defer to Philbin when it comes to what QB he wants.
 
I don't mind that they missed on Flynn. If they didn't want to spend money on him because they don't think he'll be better than Moore, than that's fine. The problem is that their P/R sucks so much that fans are always just left assuming what's going on, and considering the number of times we've struck out on FAs, we assumed the worse.
 
If he had below average arm strength he wouldn't have ranked 4th in pure long ball accuracy in the league now would he? His pocket presence was fine, I've seen him 3x live, how many times have you? Please indicate specifically which games he lost because of his fumbles? Then let's go over how many games Marshall lost for him as a result of his end zone drops, okay? Oh, and I seem to remember the defense, especially vs a predictable Tebow 2pt play, costing us that and other games.

Bradley did not beat a winning team all regular season. Ryan only beat 2 and one of them was TN during his last 9 games and only then because of a fluky ending vs Houston in game 16. During that 9 game stretch, Ryan beat teams with a .302 winning average; Moore beat teams with .439 winning average. Moore had less fumbles translate into turnovers than Bradford and Sanchez, the same amount as Flacco and only 1 more than Rivers, Roethlesburger. And that's playing with sieves like Columbo and Carey vs overall better protection for most everyone else. Again, I was there, were you to see the difference between Moore and Henne in the "it factor" which translated into body language, taking charge, encouraging the troops, in giving atta boys, in overall interaction with his offense vs sitting like a bump on a log? It was an eye opener and I say that because, while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, you are as obsessive now in taking every opportunity to attack Moore as you have consistently been in rising to every opportunity to defend or rationalize Henne literally until the day he went down and Moore, without his or Ryan's benefit of TC first snaps, took over.

Considering you spent all that time, were faulting others for Henne's shortcomings, or excusing his as circumstantial you had become more or less a lone voice; the difference here is that my voice is as loud but is also is far from as singular as was yours which should suggest something to you..but either way the analogy remains.,

Lots of folks still hold Ryan up as an ideal. Fact is, over the last 9 games, both went 6-3, Moore beat teams with a cumulative .439 winning % vs Ryan's .302, Ryan beat 9-7(by a fluke)TN as a winning team vs Moore none; Ryan lost 2X to NO and once to Houston; Moore in this stretch after he got his sea legs under him lost to Superbowl bound NE and 8-8 Eagles and Cowboys. True over that stretch, Moore did not beat a winning team, but by the same token, he sure didn't lose to a losing team either!

Given all that, unlike Sparano, I am all for a fair and spirited TC competition. I personally believe that if Moore was allowed to compete last season, we'd be playing for the playoffs instead of a spoiler in game 16 vs the jest. This season, let the chips fall where they may. Moore deserves that, especially if it's against retread QBs like Garrard, or 1 game wonders like Flynn, or the next tasty flavor like Tannehill or Weeden. Let the best QB win and it's the fans who are ahead of the game. Anything wrong with that?

Good rebuttle Vk -


1. While no one can pin a win or loss on one player as the FH fraternity love to do - Moore was careless at times with fumbles as Henne was with INTs - I prefer an INT over a Fumble myself -

2. As far as TC you can't possibly know that the best guy didn't win the job - Ireland and TS only know the truth - you could come away with the same thinking this TC after Garrard and Moore spin off -

3. Moore needs to beat someone for me to become a believer - I say he was playing loose with "house" money - the D stepped up mightily the second half who can argue. When we had to have a win it wasn't to be
 
so you think these guys go through 2012 without using a high pick on a qb??? wow...i can't see that at all...i can't see ireland getting away with that...i will be shocked if it goes down like that...


Exactly. This front office wasn't chasing quarterbacks and offering them contracts because they weren't interested.

Ireland will use a high pick and reach for a quarterback now because he knows it'll buy him more time. As long as that quarterback is sitting on the bench while Matt Moore or David Garrard's corpse is taking snaps... Ireland's supporters will continually point towards the QB he just drafted and beg to let this guy play 46.7819 games before anyone 'rushes to judgement', and be convinced that Miami's quarterback of the future is currently on the roster.

Meanwhile, both Ireland and his supporters will be able to use the fact that he drafted a quarterback high as his "plan all along".. as if he masterminded the entire fiasco and ended up right where he intended to be to begin with.
 
Sorry but a lot of us were saying this for a while and I'm glad Ireland/Philbin passed. You guys need to explain to me how one start makes a career backup since High School worthy of 8 million per year.
 
I believe this. I know how bad our FO is and I shouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt on anything but from what we've seen I think anyone who can definitively say they are 100% positive Flynn is better than Moore is lying. If the Dolphins were looking to bring Flynn in and pay him close to what Moore makes and have the 2 legitimately battle it out that would have been great. In fact that is really all I wanted in Flynn as I wasn't ready on board with giving him big bucks and the keys to the offense, he really hasn't done anything to earn that. This place is great though, if I had a nickel for how many times I read:

"Philbin knows best when it comes to Flynn, whatever he does I'll trust him."

I'd be rich!

Then after him and Ireland offer Flynn what he's worth to them:

"These guys are idiots and liars, they both think Flynn is a franchise QB and were just too cheap to pay him"

Does anyone really believe option 2. If Matt Flynn becomes a top 10 QB for the Seahawks, these guys were wrong, otherwise we can't complain. Anyone on here going to start a thread admittiing they were wrong when Flynn doesn't become a top 10 QB? I didn't think so.
 
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Everyone said they wanted to trust Philbin on Flynn but as soon as he signed with Seattle Ireland gets blasted for low balling a backup QB.

I definitely think we didn't want Flynn that bad. We didn't make him a competitive offer. Personally I think it's clear they want a qb in the draft (probably tannehill) and they are just following their plan. Honestly I still trust Ireland. I think his track record is decent. Let's see what he can do with Philbin.
 
post mist damage control without a doubt. Theres no doubt flynn is better than moore. I dont think people realize we are about to start yet another season with matt moore as our starter. I do like moore and will support him, but what really makes me scratch my head is the wr position. How we downgraded so badly once we lost marshall. No wr in the draft will compare to marshall, only blackmon but he wont make it to us.
 
The problem is you people are trying to put the offer Miami made to Matt Flynn as being reflective of Joe Philbin's opinion on Flynn instead of Ireland's. I don't necessarily buy that.

It could've been Aaron Rodgers and Ireland would still lowball him and piss him off just like he does everybody else. He doesn't value the quarterback position to the extent that competent GM's in this league do.

He looks for 'acorns' at the position where you're required to have an oak...
 
The problem is you people are trying to put the offer Miami made to Matt Flynn as being reflective of Joe Philbin's opinion on Flynn instead of Ireland's. I don't necessarily buy that.

It could've been Aaron Rodgers and Ireland would still lowball him and piss him off just like he does everybody else. He doesn't value the quarterback position to the extent that competent GM's in this league do.

He looks for 'acorns' at the position where you're required to have an oak...

i agree with this post 100%. Chad henne, matt moore, david garrard, all back up qbs in the nfl that miami has had in place for years now. Chad pennington while an elite qb in his prime was not in his prime when signed with us at all, you could see it when we got in the playoffs and the ravens embarrased us. At this point steven ross has to be pissed off with ireland and i am sure ireland has promised to get him a qb in the draft in the 1st round. Ross is seeing all these other teams getting elite qbs while miamis sticks to backup old over the hill qbs. Its gotta be frustrating for the owner. I am more than sure ross wanted to do everything to get manning but philbin disagreed and more frustration grew for ross. He has to already be thinking about selling the team. The boat just keeps sinking.
 
I am sorry, I am sure that this is a little bit of damage control but I lean towards believing it because if Philbin was sold that Flynn was going to be the man that we needed, I would have to believe that we would have given him the contract needed to sign here... People are trying to make this decision to "low ball" as Irelands only but I think Philibin had a big hand in this decision and that makes me feel better that we did not sign him. My only dissappointment really for this offseason was the pursuit of Manning because I think that cost us early in the beginnning of the FA period because we were holding out hope he was going to come here and trying to maintain cap space for him...
 
IMO, if you objectively look at everything that happened with Flynn in Miami, the only reasonable conclusion is that Philbin didn't believe he was a franchise guy.
there is no doubt they talked about Matt Flynn going back to the coach's interview in January and no one knew him better than Philbin. it is no secret the Dolphins weren't satisfied with Matt Moore's play from last year. Ireland said so in the media, talking about the need for a QB to get them "over the hump".
if Joe Philbin told them then he was a "top 15" guy, the decision to get him would have been made then.
the thing with Manning was driven by Ross and if they were ready to pounce on Flynn, they would have done exactly that.
instead, they waited until almost a week after free agency opened to bring him in. they even waited until after the only other team that wanted him got their visit. when he finally got to Miami, they offered him a contract with back-up money, even when it was well-known that Flynn wanted to be in here.
none of that happens if Philbin believed in Flynn and really wanted him to be his starting quarterback.
 
post mist damage control without a doubt. Theres no doubt flynn is better than moore. I dont think people realize we are about to start yet another season with matt moore as our starter. I do like moore and will support him, but what really makes me scratch my head is the wr position. How we downgraded so badly once we lost marshall. No wr in the draft will compare to marshall, only blackmon but he wont make it to us.

So you know more than Philbin?

FYI this would be the 1st year we start a season as Moore as our starter. That's even if that takes place, a huge assumption to me at this point.
 
The problem is you people are trying to put the offer Miami made to Matt Flynn as being reflective of Joe Philbin's opinion on Flynn instead of Ireland's. I don't necessarily buy that.

It could've been Aaron Rodgers and Ireland would still lowball him and piss him off just like he does everybody else. He doesn't value the quarterback position to the extent that competent GM's in this league do.

He looks for 'acorns' at the position where you're required to have an oak...

So it's far more believable Ireland simply either ignored Philbin or out right didn't ask his opinion?

Ya, makes perfect sense...
 
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