Playing Time for Tua

volk

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I'm being objective. I was 1 of a very few who wanted Tannehill starting game 1. And I don't remember you being one of us.

I'm objective in the fact that Tua wouldn't have been available to Miami without the injury he sustained last November.

With that said. His pedigree and tape are far superior to the reach at #8 in Tannehill. And I have zero issues letting Fitzpatrick to continue to start for the time being. Tua will get his chance, I just don't think it needs to be right now.

And yes, alot of your post was Tua hate wrapped in a emotional mess.
Nonsense. Because you don't remember me advocating for Tannehill to start day one, I must be hating on Tua by wanting him to start now? How is wanting the kid to start a negative? If Flores started him this Sunday, would you be posting that he should have kept him on the bench to learn more?

Tua's pedigree means nothing now. It's not like he recovered from the injury and continued to prove his pedigree by returning to the college game, so no one has any idea how he will look now. This is not a normal situation for him or the team. Are we seriously supposed to simply accept he is the franchise dominating QB he was just because we have seen 4 throws in practice? This is like playing the stock market and every brokerage firm's favorite disclaimer "Past results are not indicative of future results". Let the kid onto the field, and if he proves himself worthy, enter into the next draft fully aware of having zero need to draft another QB, if not, at least you haven't wasted more time and opportunity simply because you wouldn't let the kid play.
 

volk

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Why can’t you?

Secondly, it ain’t like playing him is going to allow everyone to know whether he’s the one anyway. It didn’t work for any quarterback that’s played for Miami since Marino retired. They all had detractors.
You can, but it would be reckless at best. If Tua looks the part, then they have simply wasted the Covid season by keeping him on the bench. If Tua is clearly not the one, the Dolphins have the last of their major draft haul in this year's draft. Even if they tore the team down again and traded everyone off again at the end of next year, they have no blue chip players to net any real draft capital with. Unless they lose out for the number 1 pick, they will be back where they were, unable to land a top QB prospect.

It is different this year, and that is unfortunate for the team and for Tua, but given the circumstances, I cannot see an argument for keeping him on the bench any longer, and I did not want him to start right away. It's simply time to start assessing.
 

volk

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Yes the situations are very different - for reasons in addition to the ones you pointed out. Those guys all had normal off seasons consisting of preseasons, mini camps, and OTA’s.

Do you honestly believe Herbert or Burrow would be starting in Miami right now instead of Fitzpatrick? He knows Gailey’s offense like the back of his own hand.
I don't care about Burrow or Herbert. They are all hypothetical situations. Tua is who we have, and as his largest proponent, why are you opposed to playing him?
 

The Goat

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In my opinion, this is when/where Tua starts:

1) The Dolphins are no longer in the playoff hunt. Probability: Slim. Yes, they've only won two games. But here is their schedule the next 8 weeks:

- vs. Jets.
- BYE
- vs. Rams - and the Rams travel to Miami after a Monday night game at home - with Miami coming off a bye.
- @ Arizona. (I think this is a loss.)
- @ Broncos
- vs Chargers
- @ Jets
- vs Bengals

I think that worst case? They go 4-3 over that span because...Fitz has a history of being inconsistent. That would make them 6-6...and still in the hunt.

2) Fitz gets hurt. Probability: coin flip. This hasn't been discussed much...which I find interesting. Fitz is 37. When I was 37...I was in pretty good shape for a non-athlete. I was 6'2" - 220 pounds. On St. Patrick's Day that year, I was drunk off my ***, racing against a minibike on my hopped-up Go-Kart around our neighborhood (we have private roads.) I was dirt-tracking on gravel at about 40 mph, completely sideways, and I was CATCHING his ***...but had totally forgotten that they had recently *paved* the part of the road I was approaching. As I hit the paved part fully sideways, I swear I heard a voice in my head say in a somber voice: "And this is the point where The Goat knew he had THOROUGHLY ******* up."

Kart flipped sideways in the air. I didn't have a helmet on. I came out of the kart.

....

When I came to? I was face-down on the pavement. Dinged up, but surprisingly okay. Called a neighbor as I was dragging the (still running!) kart out of the woods, bleeding at a moderately alarming rate. My wife was...PISSED. I hurt for a week. Like..."couldn't walk right or move properly without groaning" hurt.

The point of this self-indulgent pontificating? They say being tackled by an NFL linebacker is the equivalent of being in a car crash. Fitz has been running without concern for his well-being, and getting the hell knocked out of him. And GOOD for him for it. And he NEVER gets hurt. He's the benchmark of reliability.

Of course, you can say that about a LOT of NFL QBs...until you can't. Just ask Dak Prescott.

3) Fitzpatrick is clearly hindering the growth of the offense. Probability: 33%...? Ish? So here's the thing. We don't know how Fitz is going to perform for the rest of the season. The whole "Fitzmagic/Fitztragic" thing is played out. I firmly believe that Gailey is a perfect complement for Fitz...and he will help bridge the gap to a future OC. However, I think Miami got very close to this point in the fourth quarter of the Seattle game. I saw it, you saw it, Flores saw it. We'll see how this progresses.

Overall? I think that barring a Fitz injury, we don't see Tua this year aside from mop-up work or starting the last game of the season if Miami is eliminated.
 
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Joe Dolfan

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In my opinion, this is when/where Tua starts:

1) The Dolphins are no longer in the playoff hunt. Probability: Slim. Yes, they've only won two games. But here is their schedule the next 8 weeks:

- vs. Jets.
- BYE
- vs. Rams - and the Rams travel to Miami after a Monday night game at home - with Miami coming off a bye.
- @ Arizona. (I think this is a loss.)
- @ Broncos
- vs Chargers
- @ Jets
- vs Bengals

I think that worst case? They go 4-3 over that span because...Fitz has a history of being inconsistent. That would make them 6-6...and still in the hunt.

2) Fitz gets hurt. Probability: coin flip. This hasn't been discussed much...which I find interesting. Fitz is 37. When I was 37...I was in pretty good shape for a non-athlete. I was 6'2" - 220 pounds. On St. Patrick's Day that year, I was drunk off my ***, racing against a minibike on my hopped-up Go-Kart around our neighborhood (we have private roads.) I was dirt-tracking on gravel at about 40 mph, completely sideways, and I was CATCHING his ***...but had totally forgotten that they had recently *paved* the part of the road I was approaching. As I hit the paved part fully sideways, I swear I heard a voice in my head say in a somber voice: "And this is the point where The Goat knew he had THOROUGHLY ******* up."

Kart flipped sideways in the air. I didn't have a helmet on. I came out of the kart.

....

When I came to? I was face-down on the pavement. Dinged up, but surprisingly okay. Called a neighbor as I was dragging the (still running!) kart out of the woods, bleeding at a moderately alarming rate. My wife was...PISSED. I hurt for a week. Like..."couldn't walk right or move properly without groaning" hurt.

The point of this self-indulgent pontificating? They say being tackled by an NFL linebacker is the equivalent of being in a car crash. Fitz has been running without concern for his well-being, and getting the hell knocked out of him. And GOOD for him for it. And he NEVER gets hurt. He's the benchmark of reliability.

Of course, you can say that about a LOT of NFL QBs...until you can't. Just ask Dak Prescott.

3) Fitzpatrick is clearly hindering the growth of the offense. Probability: 33%...? Ish? So here's the thing. We don't know how Fitz is going to perform for the rest of the season. The whole "Fitzmagic/Fitztragic" thing is played out. I firmly believe that Gailey is a perfect complement for Fitz...and he will help bridge the gap to a future OC. However, I think Miami got very close to this point in the fourth quarter of the Seattle game. I saw it, you saw it, Flores saw it. We'll see how this progresses.

Overall? I think that barring a Fitz injury, we don't see Tua this year aside from mop-up work or starting the last game of the season if Miami is eliminated.

I think the Arizona game is more winnable than the Lambs game, personally.

What do you mean it's a coin flip that Tua starts should Fitz be injured? If they bring Rudock out of his covid bubble to start rather than Tua, we're in trouble.
 

volk

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Again though.... the injury is only an issue to me because of where it happened....had he broken his wrist or ankle I don't think we're having this conversation..... but that in no way makes it any more likely for it to happen again...... freak accident.

As for your Mahomes point, I think the only difference is that the Dolphins are a bad team where as the Packers and Chiefs had the pieces in place..... were getting the pieces in place but were still a dynamic rb and a wr opposite parker away from being a truly elite offense.


We're only having this conversation because Burrow and Herbert are starting and Herbert only got the shot because of a medical emergency.
I disagree to an extent, but appreciate the more reasoned and objective perspective. I would I am having this discussion not because of Herbert and Burrow, but rather as a matter of timing and circumstance.

The Dolphins are in a unique situation, because they drafted a potential franchise QB coming off a major injury with no way to truly know how that would impact his play. They did this at a time when they are uniquely suited to get another QB next year with an extravagant amount of draft capital. At the QB position, I just can't conceive of relying only on college work and no contact practice as a way to feel completely reassured that Tua is the answer. How is his mobility now? How is his accuracy? Can he read the defense at this level? These are legitimate questions that letting him start would actually answer.
 

volk

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You’re not going to draft a better quarterback prospect than Tua Tagovailoa in the 2021 draft anyway. You can draft another one if you just want to. But I doubt you can draft a better one.
Comments like this are why it's hard to take your input on the situation seriously. We know you are enamored with Alabama and Tua, and that's Ok. Nothing wrong with being a fan. That said, you are in love with a pre-injury player and make no concessions for the fact you have seen nothing from him since. You may argue that Lawrence wasn't a better prospect than pre-injury Tua, but we don't have that player. We have post injury Tua. Lawrence was widely considered to be nearly as good a prospect as Tua when he was healthy, are you seriously going to argue Lawrence isn't as good a prospect as post injury Tua? It's nothing but bias on your part.
 

Phinatic8u

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Comments like this are why it's hard to take your input on the situation seriously. We know you are enamored with Alabama and Tua, and that's Ok. Nothing wrong with being a fan. That said, you are in love with a pre-injury player and make no concessions for the fact you have seen nothing from him since. You may argue that Lawrence wasn't a better prospect than pre-injury Tua, but we don't have that player. We have post injury Tua. Lawrence was widely considered to be nearly as good a prospect as Tua when he was healthy, are you seriously going to argue Lawrence isn't as good a prospect as post injury Tua? It's nothing but bias on your part.

Trevor Lawrence isn't even better than Justin Herbert.
 

volk

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In my opinion, this is when/where Tua starts:

1) The Dolphins are no longer in the playoff hunt. Probability: Slim. Yes, they've only won two games. But here is their schedule the next 8 weeks:

- vs. Jets.
- BYE
- vs. Rams - and the Rams travel to Miami after a Monday night game at home - with Miami coming off a bye.
- @ Arizona. (I think this is a loss.)
- @ Broncos
- vs Chargers
- @ Jets
- vs Bengals

I think that worst case? They go 4-3 over that span because...Fitz has a history of being inconsistent. That would make them 6-6...and still in the hunt.

2) Fitz gets hurt. Probability: coin flip. This hasn't been discussed much...which I find interesting. Fitz is 37. When I was 37...I was in pretty good shape for a non-athlete. I was 6'2" - 220 pounds. On St. Patrick's Day that year, I was drunk off my ***, racing against a minibike on my hopped-up Go-Kart around our neighborhood (we have private roads.) I was dirt-tracking on gravel at about 40 mph, completely sideways, and I was CATCHING his ***...but had totally forgotten that they had recently *paved* the part of the road I was approaching. As I hit the paved part fully sideways, I swear I heard a voice in my head say in a somber voice: "And this is the point where The Goat knew he had THOROUGHLY ******* up."

Kart flipped sideways in the air. I didn't have a helmet on. I came out of the kart.

....

When I came to? I was face-down on the pavement. Dinged up, but surprisingly okay. Called a neighbor as I was dragging the (still running!) kart out of the woods, bleeding at a moderately alarming rate. My wife was...PISSED. I hurt for a week. Like..."couldn't walk right or move properly without groaning" hurt.

The point of this self-indulgent pontificating? They say being tackled by an NFL linebacker is the equivalent of being in a car crash. Fitz has been running without concern for his well-being, and getting the hell knocked out of him. And GOOD for him for it. And he NEVER gets hurt. He's the benchmark of reliability.

Of course, you can say that about a LOT of NFL QBs...until you can't. Just ask Dak Prescott.

3) Fitzpatrick is clearly hindering the growth of the offense. Probability: 33%...? Ish? So here's the thing. We don't know how Fitz is going to perform for the rest of the season. The whole "Fitzmagic/Fitztragic" thing is played out. I firmly believe that Gailey is a perfect complement for Fitz...and he will help bridge the gap to a future OC. However, I think Miami got very close to this point in the fourth quarter of the Seattle game. I saw it, you saw it, Flores saw it. We'll see how this progresses.

Overall? I think that barring a Fitz injury, we don't see Tua this year aside from mop-up work or starting the last game of the season if Miami is eliminated.

I am inclined to agree with you at this point. If he doesn't start after the bye, he doesn't start at all this year. It leaves us with a largely wasted season, and our most important position still a mystery going into our last power draft.
 

Phinatic8u

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First I have ever heard anyone suggest anything like that, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I see the young man a lot. Clemson season ticket holder...

His hype > his talent and production.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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Comments like this are why it's hard to take your input on the situation seriously. We know you are enamored with Alabama and Tua, and that's Ok. Nothing wrong with being a fan. That said, you are in love with a pre-injury player and make no concessions for the fact you have seen nothing from him since. You may argue that Lawrence wasn't a better prospect than pre-injury Tua, but we don't have that player. We have post injury Tua. Lawrence was widely considered to be nearly as good a prospect as Tua when he was healthy, are you seriously going to argue Lawrence isn't as good a prospect as post injury Tua? It's nothing but bias on your part.

To the contrary - this is nothing but bias on your part. I’ll tell you real quick which players are overrated, particularly when he’s in Tuscaloosa.

You.....You’re just looking at an avatar.

Also, to answer your earlier question - I’m not opposed to Tua playing. I’m just telling you you’re likely not going to get from it yet what you seek. Everyone is certainly not going to.
 

The Goat

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I am inclined to agree with you at this point. If he doesn't start after the bye, he doesn't start at all this year. It leaves us with a largely wasted season, and our most important position still a mystery going into our last power draft.

Absolutely ******* not.

This year wasn't about Tua. It never was. This year was about building the team AROUND a potential franchise QB that they HOPE is Tua. And next year? We get to see if he *could* be the guy.
 

mrbunglez

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A lot of the People, I’ve noticed, who are screaming for Tua to play right now are the ones who want to see him fail so they can have an I told you so moment and pick up a different QB next draft. The ones who never wanted Tua to begin with.

This year was all about setting the trenches up on both sides of the ball, Oline mainly so Tua can just step right in without getting killed. I mean **** people have been crying about how bad this line has been and how it’s not the QBs fault it’s the ****ty Oline for years and now you just want to throw in a rookie QB behind a rookie Oline? The coaches are doing things differently than past regimes and that’s actually building a line before inserting there star QB, yet people still complain.
 
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The Goat

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To the contrary - this is nothing but bias on your part. I’ll tell you real quick which players are overrated, particularly when he’s in Tuscaloosa.

You.....You’re just looking at an avatar.

Also, to answer your earlier question - I’m not opposed to Tua playing. I’m just telling you you’re likely not going to get from it yet what you seek. Everyone is certainly not going to.

It's interesting...I look at a lot of your stuff. Your work is in-depth, analytical, and well done. You SOMETIMES come off as a bit smarmy. Were it me? I'd be far worse. Because you work harder at stuff than a lot of talking heads who get paid an obnoxious amount of money to be more wrong than you most of the time.

And I was ready to wag a finger...but then I read back, and you're right. There really isn't a prospect since Luck who was as well-regarded a prospect as Tua. No...not even Lawrence.
 
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