Professional Opinion on Beck... Not our's....

[dlockz]

You just might want to recheck that stat, you're wrong, he did have 1 that he lost. I guess that means we have 3 backups then because I think Henne is nothing more than a backup and we all know that Josh is that already. You know what that means we are drafting a QB in 09 in the first round.

Well three sources gave me differant answers but even you must admit 1 lost fumble in 16 games is much more impressive than Beck's fumbles. If you think Henne is a backup , I respect your opinion but we did not draft a player in the second to be a backup much like the previous regime did not draft Beck in the second to be a backup. Henne is definately this regimes long term choice although anything can happen.

 

[Vertical Limit]

Well said.

Everything negative about John Beck is "Well said" to you. You have your mind set on thinking he will never be good; and you know, a ton of Chargers' fans thought like you about Drew Brees his first 2 seasons. Now they wish they had him back.

 

[dlockz]

How about Aikman an Walsh in the same draft....2 number 1's I guess they were going to institute a 2 QB system. Look at Greenbay this year.

In the same draft is a very unique scenario and they had a sure plan in place that with the dart drafting system that Johnson employed that one of the Qb's would turn out to be a good player.

You do realize that Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers in 2005 and he has not started one game in that time. He signed a 5 year contract so he only has two years left on contract and still has proven nothing. He has attempted 59 passes in three years. Believe me the drafting of Brohm has everything to do with the short amoun of time left on his contract as well as them not willing to rest the fate of the franchise on the hope that Rodgers is going to be a good qb. Green Bay had so much faith in Rodgers that they dangled him in trade in 2007.

 

[dlockz]

Everything negative about John Beck is "Well said" to you. You have your mind set on thinking he will never be good; and you know, a ton of Chargers' fans thought like you about Drew Brees his first 2 seasons. Now they wish they had him back.

Its not like they are unhappy with Phillip Rivers who has been pretty damn good in his own right. The reason they drafted Rivers was dissapointment whether well founded or not in Brees so why do you think we chose another qb so early.

 

[Ga. FinFan]

Well three sources gave me differant answers but even you must admit 1 lost fumble in 16 games is much more impressive than Beck's fumbles. If you think Henne is a backup , I respect your opinion but we did not draft a player in the second to be a backup much like the previous regime did not draft Beck in the second to be a backup. Henne is definately this regimes long term choice although anything can happen.

Yes 1 lost fumble in his first 4 games is much better than Johns 5 lost in his first 4 games, I'll give you that, if you in turn give me the fact that Peyton's 11 INTs in his first 4 are much worse than Johns 3. So much is made of John's FUMBLES when in fact it is turnovers, as a whole, that is the problem with all rook QBs. That is of course unless you don't care about other turnovers but are only interested in fumbles.

P.S. I use NFL.com as my only stat source so if it's a mistake please blame them.:wink:

 

[CedarPhin]

Everything negative about John Beck is "Well said" to you. You have your mind set on thinking he will never be good; and you know, a ton of Chargers' fans thought like you about Drew Brees his first 2 seasons. Now they wish they had him back.

Phil Rivers. I don't think they're exactly unhappy with him, but that's just me.

 

[dlockz]

Yes 1 lost fumble in his first 4 games is much better than Johns 5 lost in his first 4 games, I'll give you that, if you in turn give me the fact that Peyton's 11 INTs in his first 4 are much worse than Johns 3. So much is made of John's FUMBLES when in fact it is turnovers, as a whole, that is the problem with all rook QBs. That is of course unless you don't care about other turnovers but are only interested in fumbles.

P.S. I use NFL.com as my only stat source so if it's a mistake please blame them.:wink:

I personally am not judging anybody based on 4 games. These are two differant scenarios anyway since Manning was out there from day one, while we took baby steps with Beck. I think as rookies Manning was better but neither were studs you cant penalize Manning because he was good enought to be the starter from the beginning.

 

[Breed]

It's actually amusing how there are some Beck detractors who, as a counter argument, conveniently and selectively cite only Edwards

Tell me about it; it's kind of like when Beck homers point to his passer rating (I refuse to call it "QB" rating) as to why he wasn't really that bad. Sacks, sack yardage and fumbles lost aren't really that big of a deal.

who in actuality performed only marginally better than a stumbling Beck.

Not when you take into account sacks, sack yardage and fumbles lost.

Conveniently they tend to ignore Brady Coyle who was 0-7 as a starter,

Brodie Croyle threw 7 passing attempts as a rookie. Since we're only talking about how certain rookies did during their rookie years, he's out of this discussion.

JaMarcus Russell, who underperformed Beck in most meaningful statistical categories

I never denied that, as his adjusted QB rating is lower than Beck's.

Matt Leinart who had a lower QB rating ,

Leinart was still a much better QB statistically. His performance was closer to Trent Edwards than it was to Beck.

and another 1st rounder and 3yr seasoned QB, Alex Smith with a 57% QB Rating, a 48% completion rate 2 TDS and 4 Ints.

In this case, Beck had a much better rookie year, as the adjusted rating would suggest.

Edwards, whose lore on this board is being overblown is at best an anomoly.

Only because he's brought up in comparison to Beck. I've simply been stating the obvious, Edwards was much better than Beck in '07.

Look at these other QBs with more experience, better team records, better weapons, better coaching (well maybe not KC, ). How many of these QBs are being replaced? Beck actually outperformed 3 top 10 drafted QBs 2 of them 1st picks!

Which QBs are these? I'm really curious, because aside from Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell, Beck hasn't been better than any of the QBs you mentioned.

The difficulty is that when some self-annointed "armchair experts" become too entrenched and "invested" in their biases, when it comes to reality, they're too deep in the hole to actually see the forest from the trees.

"____ doesn't agree with my argument, he's obviously bias"

Who is bias? The person that judges rookie QBs based on passer rating, and ignores all else, or the person who looks over all the stats and judges accordingly?

 

[NamathDrunkLove]

You are too much, with that I've gotten my best laugh of the day.:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

WV's comment went WAY over your head. There is no way to put it any easier, his stats indicated that he was a better qb than what he actually looked. Last time I checked a 62.0 qb rating is horrible. WV simply implied that he played even worse than his 62 qb rating indicated. Qb rating doesn't include fumbles and sacks.

 

[Hellweed]

WV's comment went WAY over your head. There is no way to put it any easier, his stats indicated that he was a better qb than what he actually looked. Last time I checked a 62.0 qb rating is horrible. WV simply implied that he played even worse than his 62 qb rating indicated. Qb rating doesn't include fumbles and sacks.

I doubt that. What he was trying to suggest was not so much complicated as it was... laugh out loud funny. So is picking and choosing what stats count and which don't, or which games count and which don’t. With such liberal interpretations anyone make an argument for Beck, or any QB for that matter, to be the best and/or worst in NFL history. Comic relief does lighten the mood though.

 

[tkPhinFan]

This is just another reason you cant base everything on stats. Stats are mearly a tool and you must take them for what they are.

Of course. Stats only count when they support your POV.

 

[Breed]

Of course. Stats only count when they support your POV.

Like any argument, it's not just about throwing any old stat out there, it's using the right stats that make your argument valid. In other words, don't cherry pick your stats, show them all.