QB Blaine Gabbert, Missouri | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

QB Blaine Gabbert, Missouri

hooshoops said:
well i've admittedly only seen the last 2 playoff games and i felt like in the first game he had issues with pressure in the second he barely got touched...

anyways...jan 7th...noted
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I thought he handled the rush in the second game in other more subtle ways, and it worked well for him.
 
ckparrothead said:
To me, you watch Nebraska play Missouri and then you watch Nebraska play Washington, and it's a great contrast between the QBs that shows you what a better prospect Blaine Gabbert is compared with Jake Locker. The secondary did indeed blanket both teams' receivers, and apply pressure with four-man fronts. But, though Gabbert was clearly rattled a little bit by the pressure and you could tell in his scrambling patterns, he for the most part stood tall all game, never made bad decisions, and his ability to read the defense and adjust to what Nebraska were doing to he and the offense really got better as the game wore on. That happens when you don't allow panic to set in. He only had the one interception and it was because he failed to place the deep ball on a 3rd & 17 on the outside shoulder (and of course woe be it for a Missouri WR to actually adjust to a ball in the air, they don't do it hardly at all)...it really wasn't a costly situation. Gabbert kept working, kept punching, never resorted to flat out stupid decision-making, and because of that the game was within reach until the end. And that was with taking no less than three illegal hits, some called and some not...helmet-to-helmet type stuff that physically shook him up. I mean, the guy gets speared in the head from a blind side DB blitz, should have been a penalty, he's shaken up, he gets up on the next 3rd & 22 (impossible down), and he calmly scans the field, doesn't see anyone, and scrambles out for a 12 yard gain. At that point in the game, I felt like they should have gone for it on 4th & 10 and if they did then that scramble of his would have been CRUCIAL to making that 4th down a makeable situation. They didn't go for it, they punted it with like 8 minutes left, and they never saw the ball again because that's the kind of day Nebraska's offense and Roy Helu Jr. were having against Missouri.

Jake Locker's bad decisions came in costly situations, led to Nebraska points, and he didn't keep fighting back. By the end, he simply gave up, and showed that he gave up several times with a couple of blind throws where he was just being selfish, tired of dealing with the pressure Nebraska was throwing in his face, tired of dealing with his receivers being covered.

I think Blaine Gabbert compares in a lot of ways to Josh Freeman and Ben Roethlisberger coming out.
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I was thinking Roethlisberger - the way he buys time - and Freeman reminds me of a more athletic Roethlisberger too. I'm with you, though: the QB's ability to handle pressure is one of the very most important areas. What makes you think he'll declare?
 
ckparrothead said:
I thought he handled the rush in the second game in other more subtle ways, and it worked well for him.
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pretty good footwork side stepped a couple things...shifted in the pocket...

but in the first game i thought he shelled up under pressure a little bit...

i don't know that anyone shells up under pressure like chad henne does though...my god...its awful
 
hooshoops said:
pretty good footwork side stepped a couple things...shifted in the pocket...

but in the first game i thought he shelled up under pressure a little bit...

i don't know that anyone shells up under pressure like chad henne does though...my god...its awful
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I agree with you. If Devlin handled the rush and had the physical tools to buy time and create positive outcomes more often, then he'd be a sure fire 1st rounder to me. Right now as I've said for a while, the difference between Pat Devlin and the the people in the 1st round are the natural arm strength (ability to drive the ball in all situations not just ones where you get your feet under you), and the ability to convert pressure to positive outcomes with fair frequency. Andrew Luck handles the rush and has a nice arm. Blaine Gabbert really handles the rush and has a really nice arm. Cam Newton handles the rush and has a huge arm. Pat Devlin has an OK arm and is OK at handling the rush. Ryan Mallet has a huge arm but is terrible at handling the rush. Jake Locker has a good arm but is not good with the rush. You add in a layer of reading defenses and knowing how to manipulate with your eyes, and that is when Pat Devlin tries to scratch and claw his way back into the category with Gabbert and Newton, to me...because he has a PhD in that stuff where Gabbert is working on his GED and Newton is still kind of fingerpainting at times.
 
hooshoops said:
slimm what have you seen with newton that has you so down on him right now???

i'm just point blank ready to take a chance on greatness...cam newton has great upside so to me its a risk worth taking
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When is the last time you ever saw a GM take a chance on a run first, 1 year starter at the quarterback position out of a gimmick offense, with all the questionable off field decision making skills of a guy like Cam Newton, and succeed?

If you're willing to risk your job making a prospect like this the face of your franchise, you'll be the first one that's ever lived to tell about it.


Anyway, I saw the Iron Bowl in person in BDS, so it's taken me some time to get back to looking at the film.. In the first half, Cam Newton was completely shut down... His accuracy on short throws was horrible... he doesn't spin the ball cleanly into tight coverage... he doesn't throw with confidence when the windows are tight.

His ball placement was all over the place, even on screens.. which caused the receivers to have to leave their feet in order to make the catch, allowing the defenders time to react and stop them for no gain.

The pressure Bama was bringing in the first half got to him... he was completely confused and couldn't figure it out. For only the second time all season, Cam Newton was rattled.... the first time was against Manny Diaz's defense when Auburn played Mississippi State...


I don't doubt Cam Newton's physical talent one bit... However, I believe he's going to have a tremendous amount of trouble with the amount of thinking he's going to be required to do playing quarterback in the NFL... and I think he's going to struggle throwing the ball into tighter windows in the NFL...

My original thought on Newton to begin with was that I would consider him beyond the first 60 picks or so... and I almost talked myself out of that. I'm back to where I was to begin with, I wouldn't touch him in the 1st round....
 
TedSlimmJr said:
When is the last time you ever saw a GM take a chance on a run first, 1 year starter at the quarterback position out of a gimmick offense, with all the questionable off field decision making skills of a guy like Cam Newton, and succeed?

If you're willing to risk your job making a prospect like this the face of your franchise, you'll be the first one that's ever lived to tell about it.


Anyway, I saw the Iron Bowl in person in BDS, so it's taken me some time to get back to looking at the film.. In the first half, Cam Newton was completely shut down... His accuracy on short throws was horrible... he doesn't spin the ball cleanly into tight coverage... he doesn't throw with confidence when the windows are tight.

His ball placement was all over the place, even on screens.. which caused the receivers to have to leave their feet in order to make the catch, allowing the defenders time to react and stop them for no gain.

The pressure Bama was bringing in the first half got to him... he was completely confused and couldn't figure it out. For only the second time all season, Cam Newton was rattled.... the first time was against Manny Diaz's defense when Auburn played Mississippi State...


I don't doubt Cam Newton's physical talent one bit... However, I believe he's going to have a tremendous amount of trouble with the amount of thinking he's going to be required to do playing quarterback in the NFL... and I think he's going to struggle throwing the ball into tighter windows in the NFL...

My original thought on Newton to begin with was that I would consider him beyond the first 60 picks or so... and I almost talked myself out of that. I'm back to where I was to begin with, I wouldn't touch him in the 1st round....
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You bring up really good points.

I'm not sure I really agree with the 'rattled' characterization on Newton though, especially in that Mississippi State game which I've put under scrutiny. Issues, for sure...as I watched it I couldn't help but think, I'm not watching an NFL quarterback, am I? But I didn't sense 'rattled'.
 
ckparrothead said:
I've watched 5 of Gabbert's games and I'm about to watch a 6th with the Nevada game on YouTube...and I've yet to see his receivers do this. It's one of the weaknesses of that team, if you ask me. They don't adjust well when the play breaks down. They get erased by physical coverage. They're clueless trying to track and adjust to the football in the air. The Tight End, Egnew, has a clue...but he can be erased. T.J. Moe can play smart at times, but he can also be erased because he's not particularly fast and he can be jammed and blanketed. When they lost Danario Alexander, they lost a lot of the help that Blaine Gabbert could have used right now.

I agree on Yates obviously...the more you dig the more you tend to like. He's also got a little bit of an ear hole delivery at times. The weaknesses with him are that he doesn't find the intermediate throw often enough, it's all short or deep, and he doesn't have the physical tools to beat NFL pressure. He has the poise to handle it without breaking down, as you say, but not the tools to beat it. Blaine Gabbert is exceptional to me, in this regard. He has the poise to handle the rush, feel it, avoid it, work the pocket, but he also has the tools to make you miss and hurt you afterwards.

That has to be at such a premium for a young player in today's NFL.
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If you think Missouri's receivers are bad at it, I can't imagine what you think of Washington's receivers in this aspect. They're clueless at beating the jam, and working back to their quarterback...

Hell, go watch the game Jake Locker sat out and the backup quarterback played against Oregon... it's the same thing...

No pocket for the quarterback, and receivers that have no idea what they're doing...
 
is cam newton right now a better nfl qb prospect than mike vick when he came out??? i think he is...what says you???

thats an awful lot of talent to not touch in the first round...
 
Also I think it deserves to be said that Mike Vick's recent success has to figure into the philosophical debate on Cameron Newton. It has to. The stories that are coming out now about how Vick never even tried back when he was with Atlanta...would be given film to study and would just leave it in the car all week and never even look at it before the games...I mean, that's a pretty strong indicator that guys like Mike Vick and like Cameron Newton who have the tremendous throwing skills in addition to the tremendous running skills...CAN make it in today's NFL.

It took Vick 10 years because he's a thug criminal, hangs out with criminals, and never developed any work ethic.

If you can interview Newton, do THOROUGH background checks to where you've uncovered every skeleton in his closet, spoken with every person that's come into contact with him...and you're pretty sure that he doesn't hang around with criminals, and he will work hard at the next level...then you look at Vick's work with Philadelphia and it becomes a lot harder to ignore Newton. Even when Vick was NOT trying, he still was winning games in Atlanta and brought them to the NFC Championship Game.
 
Looking at that Nevada game, I didn't realize you guys were linking a game from 2009. You can track the guy's growth from 2009 to 2010, and you can also see the glaring differences in the offense as they lose experienced guys like Danario Alexander, Derrick Washington and Jared Perry. The difference in the surrounding cast is, to me, glaring...as are the differences in Gabbert's decision-making. Notice that throw against Nevada where he was scrambling and in trouble, and he just heaved it up for the defender to intercept. That happens as a sophomore, his first year starting...that doesn't happen as a junior in his second year starting. Even his tendency to at times stare at his target, seemed worse in that Nevada game than I've seen it in 2010. His handling of pressure in 2010 is more crisp, more decisive. He showed flashes of his ability that way in that 2009 game, but he's a lot more consistent in 2010, throwing the football away a lot more, running for zero gain or positive yardage. I should also point out, it's amazing how much better a deep ball can look when the guy you're throwing it to can actually track it in the air and adjust. Check out that 74 yard TD to Danario Alexander in the 2nd Half. That doesn't happen often enough in 2010. Why? Because his WRs are terrible at adjusting on the ball. I think Kearse of Washington is better than any of the WRs Gabbert has at Mizzou.

You know who he actually reminds me of some, with the way he has trouble with the deep ball, is Aaron Rodgers.
 
Cam Newton's confidence was rattled... I couldn't care less about the expression on his face or his body language.

Most of these guys with the athletic ability of a Michael Vick, Vince Young, Cam Newton, etc... tend to NOT be willing to put in the work that it takes to get mentally prepared enough to lead a franchise. They think they can get by on pure athletic ability... and they can in spurts, but you can't sustain it..

For one thing, Cam Newton isn't quite Michael Vick in terms of speed and athleticism. There's never been a guy like that at the quarterback position, not even Cam Newton.

There were dual threat quarterbacks succeeding in the NFL long before Michael Vick, but these were guys who worked hard and were mentally prepared...


It's quite possible that a year at the JUCO level helped Cam Newton figure some of this out.... It does take a lot of self motivation and dedication to put in the necessary work to stay clean and develope at the JUCO level when you've been ousted by D-1 football... For every ONE kid you hear about going this route and making it back into BCS conferences, there's 50 that didn't..


That may be an awful lot of talent to pass on in the 1st round, but that's also an awful lot of uncertainties to be making the face of your franchise, and placing that much faith in to come in and be a franchise caliber quarterback in the NFL..


Like I said, Cam Newton is worth whatever you're willing to risk, and every team is going to be different when it comes to that. I think the quarterback position has to be evaluated completely different from any other position..

The type of "talent" Cam Newton gets by with in college, isn't the type of talent that's going to get him by in the NFL. It's going to be a little different..
 
I'm excited for Missouri vs. Iowa which really is Gabbert vs. Stanzi. Iowa always has a great D so Gabbert will really have to play well. If he plays lights out maybe he'll enter the draft. And I've gone from thinking Stanzi was a bum to thinking he might actually be a decent QB.
 
Watching T.J. Yates against Florida State. Yates is even more underrated than Ben Chappell.

He processes so much information and is so mechanically, fundamentally sound. Sound isn't even the word for it, he uses every weapon at his disposal. His foot mechanics are the best in the Draft, I had been saying they're second to Andrew Luck but I don't think so anymore. I think Yates has better dropback, pocket, fake and handoff mechanics. When he drops back, he pulls away from Center in a HURRY, but very controlled, reading the defense. He gets his head around. Where are the scouts on this kid? Why aren't the big time people picking up on him?

He plays football with such an admiration and obsession with all of the DETAILS, such a commitment to doing every little thing right...and yet he's an unselfish player and has a live arm, maybe the best deep vertical accuracy in the Draft. I can watch Blaine Gabbert hit 1 out of 7 of his deep vertical throws, and then watch T.J. Yates hit 6 of 7. I don't think that's an exaggeration. Yates is PERFECT for a traditional play-action NFL offense.

I think he might be better than Chad Henne right at this moment.
 
I like Yates. North Carolina has had their share of talent at Wide Receivers in Brooks Foster, Brandon Tate, and Hakeem Nicks but someone has to get them the ball...
 
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