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QB Blaine Gabbert, Missouri

ckparrothead said:
Watching T.J. Yates against Florida State. Yates is even more underrated than Ben Chappell.

He processes so much information and is so mechanically, fundamentally sound. Sound isn't even the word for it, he uses every weapon at his disposal. His foot mechanics are the best in the Draft, I had been saying they're second to Andrew Luck but I don't think so anymore. I think Yates has better dropback, pocket, fake and handoff mechanics. When he drops back, he pulls away from Center in a HURRY, but very controlled, reading the defense. He gets his head around. Where are the scouts on this kid? Why aren't the big time people picking up on him?

He plays football with such an admiration and obsession with all of the DETAILS, such a commitment to doing every little thing right...and yet he's an unselfish player and has a live arm, maybe the best deep vertical accuracy in the Draft. I can watch Blaine Gabbert hit 1 out of 7 of his deep vertical throws, and then watch T.J. Yates hit 6 of 7. I don't think that's an exaggeration. Yates is PERFECT for a traditional play-action NFL offense.

I think he might be better than Chad Henne right at this moment.
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Word. Watch him against Clemson... he has total mastery of his body and thoughts. Total mastery of his mechanics and what he wants to do. It's the little things that he does that are impeccable.

He completely understands defenses and recognizes tendencies. T.J. Yates doesn't just run whatever play is called and then run another play like 90% of college quarterbacks. This guy EXECUTES an offense.

He knows what he's doing, and he knows he knows what he's doing.
 
So, CK and Slimm, most mocks I see have him going undrafted. He isn't a freak athlete, but manipulates the pocket, and his arm looks plenty strong. Given the positives, where would you be comfortable drafting him?
 
I'm guessing those mocks probably have guys like Jerrod Johnson, Taylor Potts, Tyrod Taylor, etc. going ahead of him too... if so they're not even worth looking at.

Honestly, that's why I don't like mock drafts. I don't even look at 'em.


I started out with a 5th/6th round grade on Yates, and I'll likely only end up with a draftable grade on a dozen quarterbacks... so it wasn't that bad to begin with.

However, as I've began to study Yates more closely, he's immediately improved his stock immensely in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him be at worst the third Senior quarterback to come off the board, somewhere in the 3rd/4th round. I'd feel comfortable taking him in the 4th round area without a doubt.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I'm guessing those mocks probably have guys like Jerrod Johnson, Taylor Potts, Tyrod Taylor, etc. going ahead of him too... if so they're not even worth looking at.

Honestly, that's why I don't like mock drafts. I don't even look at 'em.


I started out with a 5th/6th round grade on Yates, and I'll likely only end up with a draftable grade on a dozen quarterbacks... so it wasn't that bad to begin with.

However, as I've began to study Yates more closely, he's immediately improved his stock immensely in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him be at worst the third Senior quarterback to come off the board, somewhere in the 3rd/4th round. I'd feel comfortable taking him in the 4th round area without a doubt.
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I believe they do. I just did a quick draft-site rummage to gauge his stock via 'popular' opinion. I noticed that of his 3 400 yards passing games, UNC only won 1, and in those games, he didn't throw a single pick. Also, 2 of those 3 games were against ranked opponents. Without access to all of the games in question, I'd guess a few things: 1. His team isn't very good. 2. He rises to the occasion (should have won the LSU game - dropped pass lost the game). 3. His coach would prefer to run the ball but against better competition is compelled to let Yates throw more (think UNC only had 24 yards rushing against LSU).

Those are guesses based on stats and could be way off, but if they're true, his just breaking 3,000 yards and only having 18 TD passes could be misleading.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Word. Watch him against Clemson... he has total mastery of his body and thoughts. Total mastery of his mechanics and what he wants to do. It's the little things that he does that are impeccable.

He completely understands defenses and recognizes tendencies. T.J. Yates doesn't just run whatever play is called and then run another play like 90% of college quarterbacks. This guy EXECUTES an offense.

He knows what he's doing, and he knows he knows what he's doing.
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LOL! That's a great quote. Don't know why I found that funny. I'm going to use that an attribute it to you.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I'm guessing those mocks probably have guys like Jerrod Johnson, Taylor Potts, Tyrod Taylor, etc. going ahead of him too... if so they're not even worth looking at.

Honestly, that's why I don't like mock drafts. I don't even look at 'em.


I started out with a 5th/6th round grade on Yates, and I'll likely only end up with a draftable grade on a dozen quarterbacks... so it wasn't that bad to begin with.

However, as I've began to study Yates more closely, he's immediately improved his stock immensely in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him be at worst the third Senior quarterback to come off the board, somewhere in the 3rd/4th round. I'd feel comfortable taking him in the 4th round area without a doubt.
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You probably have the right of where the kid is going to end up going. But there's a quote from a scout that sticks with me when it comes to these things. "If I'm no willing to use a 3rd rounder on a guy, why am I taking him in the 6th round?"

That's how I tend to think of these things. Because I'm not an actual scout or anything, I can afford to get lofty with grades.

But honestly, I need a quarterback, the other ones I like are off the board, and I feel like I have information suggesting that the guy is going to be off the board before I pick in the 3rd round, so do I take him with the 2nd? Yeah, I might.
 
I'm actually about 90% done with a write-up on Yates in the same style as the Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Mallett write-ups.

I think the reason he gets ignored is the same reason Jason Campbell was ignored and became sort of a late riser up the Draft boards. For so long, the guy didn't 'get it' and you are pretty sure you knew what he was. Then he puts together this one year and you're sure it has to be a farse, you're sure it can't be that he really just needed time to develop and now he gets it. The media (and to some extent the scouts) just need time to get used to the idea that what they thought about a guy for a long time...might have been wrong. In Campbell's case, people satisfied themselves with the easy excuse that his final year was the first time he'd had the same offense and offensive coordinator from one year to the next. That's an understandable explanation and people want an understandable world. But sometimes the light just clicks on. Look at Campbell today, he still has his doubters...for some good reasons and some bad...but all he does is put together QB ratings in the mid-80's and produce offense. The Raiders have scored an average of 27+ points in games where he took most of the snaps. And yet they still want to play Bruce Gradkowski ahead of him.

It's funny I re-visited my initial notes on T.J. Yates. The name "Peyton Manning" popped up in at least four notes. I hadn't done that much background on the guy yet though and so I just did so because of the write-up I'm working on. Sure enough, grew up around Indianapolis, favorite team is the Colts, follows them very closely to this day. Definition of 'not a coincidence'. Wouldn't be surprised if he's been to Camp Manning.
 
LOL. Now that I say that, I just looked it up, and T.J. Yates has been invited to and has attended Manning Camp three straight off seasons. I can't think of anyone else that has attended so often. At Manning Camp of course you participate in competitions and learn things, but you also teach 900 kids how to play quarterback. What did the Manning brothers put T.J. Yates in charge of teaching the kids? What else. How to throw the long ball. "You have to get a high release, wide base and get some air under the ball so the nose will be pointing down and land right where you want it. We put a bucket downfield and had the kids try to throw into it."
 
Good stuff, CK. And great discussion.

I look forward to the discussion on Ben Chappell. When you are looking at him, please pay attention to receiver Tandon Doss. He is 6'2 and, even at that height, he is shifty and can play in the slot as well as outside. So he has good versatility. Doss also has good makeup. I see a Steve Smith type (Giants variety). Will make plays, make tough catches, move the sticks, you can move him around, etc.

Demarlo Belcher is another Indiana receiver who is 6'5 and in the James Hardy mold. Belcher is a nice player who will get drafted but I don't see anything special. He still has time to improve. But I really like Doss. Longer term, IU has a freshman TE named Ted Bolser who I think has great potential, but he obviously has a long time to go.

Yes, I am an Indiana fan (there are one or two of us). As for Chap, I have seen him a ton but not in the sense of breaking down film. What I see in real time is a guy with an ok arm, makes good decisions, compact delivery, pretty bright and competitive guy. I think he gets it out of there pretty fast too. But, he severely lacks quickness in the pocket. Yes, his long speed is slow a la Marino. But he lacks Marino's tremendous quickness in the pocket.

Mentally, Chap is much better than, say, Henne. Where Henne is slow footed and not very bright, Chap is slow footed but mentally sharp. Nevertheless, I think as well as Chap does many things, his very slow feet will override his positives. I see him strictly as a backup prospect, 5th round ish.

I am very curious to see if you guys come out differently, though. I am open minded, and like I said, I have never studied the film, just what I see in first impressions. Yes, I like IU football, but no, not enough to break it down further than that.

There you have my tips on IU football.
 
I think a lot of the same things you do about Ben Chappell. A number of things attracted me to him in October of 2009, about the same time I started espousing Andrew Luck as a future #1 overall pick.

1. He GETS THE BALL OUT, and at times it's almost impossible as a defense to fool him into not knowing that the pressure is coming.
2. His comfort zone and accuracy range is in the 25 to 30 yard range as the crow flies...and that's special.
3. He's a big boy and he can take some hits, keep on punching.
4. As you say...quick release, hair trigger.

I look at his size and I have a tough time believing that he's maxed out as far as his workout regimen goes. If you can cure him of his Jared Lorenzen tendencies, I think you get quicker feet out of the guy. It all boils down to his dedication level to the game, what he's willing to do in order to make it big. It could be he just doesn't think it necessary to be under 250 lbs to play the position, that it helps him take the hits he wants. Maybe the coaches even encourage it. But if you can get him down to 225 or 230 with a true dedication to working as an athlete and improving his foot speed and athleticism, the way a Drew Brees works on his...nobody's fooling themselves into thinking Ben Chappell is going to move to WR any time soon...but he could benefit, just as Chad Henne could have benefited if he did the same thing.
 
Yeah, thanks, CK. I've kind of thought the same thing about Chap's weight. If you look at his face, it even looks pudgy. But I never heard a thing about his weight from IU fans, message boards, or media, so I wondered if it was me. But he is a bright kid, and a gym rat. If it were to be emphasized to him, he might make a big deal out of it.

As for the same issue with Henne, I recall an SI feature I read on basketball star Chris Mullin. He struggled when he first went into the NBA out of St Johns. Mullin said he didn't get better until the light bulb went on for him that the way he could overcome his poor athleticism was to be in absolutely insane shape. And so he did a ridiculous amount of time on the stair master, crunches, etc. I've always found that instructive for the less athletic guys. Maximize your own athleticism by being in crazy good shape.
 
if i'm getting jason campbell like player with one of these qb prospects that to me isn't worth investing the pick in...i need more

otherwise i'll invest the pick elsewhere
 
ckparrothead said:
You probably have the right of where the kid is going to end up going. But there's a quote from a scout that sticks with me when it comes to these things. "If I'm no willing to use a 3rd rounder on a guy, why am I taking him in the 6th round?"

That's how I tend to think of these things. Because I'm not an actual scout or anything, I can afford to get lofty with grades.

But honestly, I need a quarterback, the other ones I like are off the board, and I feel like I have information suggesting that the guy is going to be off the board before I pick in the 3rd round, so do I take him with the 2nd? Yeah, I might.
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Yeah but the same logic applies in the other direction.... If I wouldn't take a guy #1 overall in the draft, why would I take him #2 overall?

Or, If I wouldn't take a guy in the 1st round, why would I take him in the 2nd round? Etc...


You can get lofty with grades, but you can't really use that logic as a baseline, or you'll just end up throwing good players that can develope in the trash, or reaching for a guy too early just because you had a draftable grade on him.


If you have a 4th round grade on a guy, it doesn't necessarily mean that the 4th round is the earliest you would take him, obviously if you like the guy, you'd take him in the 3rd round if you don't feel like he'll be there in the 4th round.

I think this applies much more so to quarterbacks than any other position.... I remember the Patriots talking about how they had a 4th round grade on Tom Brady, but they kept passing him up because they already a franchise quarterback in Bledsoe, and had so many other needs they had to address...

When Brady was still on the board in the 6th round, they were finally like "screw this we're taking him", because at that point he was simply too much value to pass up again...

Did the Patriots get "lucky" with Tom Brady? Absolutely... but it's strange how you can make your own luck... funny how the draft works.
 
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