QBR Data Charts: Tannehill in "Bell Curve" group along w/ Palmer/Dalton

[roy_miami]

The running game dries up because Defenses know Dalton sucks and can focus to shut it down, especially with Green out.

The Bengals have TWO stud RBs, it is a farce to say the Dolphins have a similar running game. And Wallace being even in the same conversation as Green? Lmao... Their entire receiving corps is superior, top to bottom. Dalton has great protection, big targets all over the field and a great duo of RBs and still can't get it done. And he has had epic bad performances that Tannehill has never even come close to mimicking. Dalton is a bottom tier QB with a Top Tier offensive cast, that why his stats make him look like a middle tier QB.

I think Dalton is exactly what the graph in the article suggests, always have even without this data, which ranks him in about the 20-24 range. He doesn't need to be adjusted lower than that just to make ourselves feel better about our guy.

I don't think anybody would say that Vikings team is loaded with talent yet that didn't keep Bridgewater from performing relatively well according to this data.

 

[Phinatic8u]

LOL QBR is the most flawed system around.

ESPN are idiots for keeping that as the stat.

 

[Perfect72]

Really cool way of looking at QB performance and similar to the way I try to evaluate QBs with the exception being I never look at the lower bumps.
Using those graphs as a guide QBs Tannehill is clearly better than:
Alex Smith
Bortles
Hoyer
Geno
Sanchez
Cassel
Bradford
Carr

QBs Tannehill is clearly worse than:
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Newton
Kaepernick
Brees
E. Manning
Cutler
Flacco
Matt Ryan
Schaub
Stafford
Foles
P Manning
Rivers
Bridgewater
Brady
Romo
Wilson

Unclear:
Dalton
Palmer
Manuel
Locker
Orton
Glennon

So using those graphs Tannehill should be slotted in the 19 to 25 range of starting QBs.

Okay. There are a lot of people on the board who still believe Tannehill stinks no matter what & will argue to the Nth degree trying to prove it. So, bottom-line is:

1. Who on the list of QB's rated better than Tannehill do you WANT more?
2. More importantly, of your list from the first question, who do you believe the Dolphins can actually GET via trade, FA, or whatever?
3. Who in the draft would be better than Tannehill is now and available to the Dolphins at our draft position(s), that would be SO much better the Dolphins would be motivated to invest a high draft pick & 2-3 years of OJT?

Just trying to understand realistic alternatives rather than just hating on Tannehill. Whatever you think about his talent, he has always been a team player, is a team leader, tough as nails (look at some of the hits he's endured the last 3 years. One of you gurus should post a Tannehill's Greates Hits ENDURED GIF thread) and tows the company line. No baby sulking like Newton, etc.

 

[phins_4_ever]

One thing to note about these comparisons is that QBR doesn't really account for the offense around the QB. The fact that Tannehill's chart is similar to Dalton's considering the vast difference in talent they have been surrounded by during their careers is encouraging to me. That says to me that if Tannehill were in the Bengals offense for the past 3 years his chart would look much more positive.


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Let me rehash that. You bring out a stat chart. Then, after closer look that it is not very complimentary of Tannehill, you and everybody decides that it is crap anyways because it does essentially include everything else (OL, WR, play call, weather etc) a QB technically has no influence in?

But we can use stats when they are complimentary of him like QBR and % over a certain time period in a season, showing progress from year-to-year etc?

Are you aware that by your own (and from others) notion that this particular chart is now crap that you (and everybody agreeing with you) essentially eliminated every possible stat as an argument for or against? When it comes down to it even passing yards are influenced by other areas of the team, coaching, weather etc.

Well done for making a case and then arguing against it.

 

[Liphinphan]

Okay. There are a lot of people on the board who still believe Tannehill stinks no matter what & will argue to the Nth degree trying to prove it. So, bottom-line is:

1. Who on the list of QB's rated better than Tannehill do you WANT more?
2. More importantly, of your list from the first question, who do you believe the Dolphins can actually GET via trade, FA, or whatever?
3. Who in the draft would be better than Tannehill is now and available to the Dolphins at our draft position(s), that would be SO much better the Dolphins would be motivated to invest a high draft pick & 2-3 years of OJT?

Just trying to understand realistic alternatives rather than just hating on Tannehill. Whatever you think about his talent, he has always been a team player, is a team leader, tough as nails (look at some of the hits he's endured the last 3 years. One of you gurus should post a Tannehill's Greates Hits ENDURED GIF thread) and tows the company line. No baby sulking like Newton, etc.

Great point...and very relavant. Seems like NO ONE has the answer to that, or likes to answer it. Just that he is not good enough or the answer. If there were alternate options, I would listen to them. I would probably disagree with those options, but I would listen.

 

[roy_miami]

Okay. There are a lot of people on the board who still believe Tannehill stinks no matter what & will argue to the Nth degree trying to prove it. So, bottom-line is:

1. Who on the list of QB's rated better than Tannehill do you WANT more?
2. More importantly, of your list from the first question, who do you believe the Dolphins can actually GET via trade, FA, or whatever?
3. Who in the draft would be better than Tannehill is now and available to the Dolphins at our draft position(s), that would be SO much better the Dolphins would be motivated to invest a high draft pick & 2-3 years of OJT?

Just trying to understand realistic alternatives rather than just hating on Tannehill. Whatever you think about his talent, he has always been a team player, is a team leader, tough as nails (look at some of the hits he's endured the last 3 years. One of you gurus should post a Tannehill's Greates Hits ENDURED GIF thread) and tows the company line. No baby sulking like Newton, etc.

According to that data he along with Dalton and a few others are ranked 20-24. That is what the data shows. That is where he ranks based on what he's done so far, I'm not making any predictions based on the data, I am just the messenger here. If looking at results and realizing the results are nothing special makes you a hater, then I guess I'm a hater.

I'm not saying he can't be elite. I'm not saying he isn't the best QB we've had since Marino (which isn't exactly saying much). I, and many others, prefer to rely on actual results to help predict how he'll evolve rather than just forecast the best case scenario irrespective of results. When I see people say things like Matt Ryan is his floor, or his ceiling is much higher than Russell Wilson I just shake my head. Russell Wilson could prove to be as good as it gets at the position, its ridiculous to say anybodies ceiling is much higher, let alone a QB that has proven to be nothing but mediocre to this point.

And speaking of Wilson this data shows that he's even with Jay Cutler and worse than Tony Romo, but the only QB I would take over him right now is Aaron Rodgers, so I completely understand that the ranking based on previous results does not necessarily correlate with the players future value.

 

[utahphinsfan]

Lets be honest; the QBR is dubious at best & the tweaked one bspn uses is highly subjective grade A bull plop.

Get back to me when you have compared; interceptions between Eli M to Ryan using the students t, career passing yds between Wilson, RT, & Peyton using the Anova F, or even comparing TD's between Palmer, RT, & Benny R using the Kruskal Wallis H.

QBs Tannehill is clearly worse than:
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Newton
Kaepernick
Brees
E. Manning
Cutler
Flacco
Matt Ryan
Schaub
Stafford
Foles
P Manning
Rivers
Bridgewater
Brady
Romo
Wilson

Other than Bridgewater whose sample size is too small; All I can say is really?

I think that it's an overated measure to analyze and compare QBs. I don't like it.

Agree. Mark Twain said there are 3 types of lies, "lies, damned lies, & statiistics."

 

[hoops]

Really cool way of looking at QB performance and similar to the way I try to evaluate QBs with the exception being I never look at the lower bumps.
Using those graphs as a guide QBs Tannehill is clearly better than:
Alex Smith
Bortles
Hoyer
Geno
Sanchez
Cassel
Bradford
Carr

QBs Tannehill is clearly worse than:
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Newton
Kaepernick
Brees
E. Manning
Cutler
Flacco
Matt Ryan
Schaub
Stafford
Foles
P Manning
Rivers
Bridgewater
Brady
Romo
Wilson

Unclear:
Dalton
Palmer
Manuel
Locker
Orton
Glennon

So using those graphs Tannehill should be slotted in the 19 to 25 range of starting QBs.

This is terrible...absolutely awful...no other way to say it

I'm not trying to turn this into a world war but this is awful

 

[NY8123]

Well I'm no more convinced after this season about Tannehill. I said no more excuses for him last year and I also said if he didn't show improvement I'd be a harsher critic than WV is.

Well I'm still on the fence and that's the truth. He did enough to show marked improvements but he didn't take a leaps and bounds step forward. The D also didn't help and neither did injuries along the offensive line.

My opinion stays neutral and I'm letting it ride. A dealer push so to speak. He played better but he still isn't there.

 

[roy_miami]

I don't think people are understanding how my lists were created. I simply compared Tannehill's graph with every current starting QB and if somebody like Romo is clearly better, i.e. his graph is lower on the left side and higher on the right side then he went into the "clearly better" list. There isn't much subjectivity in it, its just what the data shows. If you want to compare each chart and make your own ranking, be my guest.

 

[AZStryker]

According to that data he along with Dalton and a few others are ranked 20-24. That is what the data shows. That is where he ranks based on what he's done so far, I'm not making any predictions based on the data, I am just the messenger here. If looking at results and realizing the results are nothing special makes you a hater, then I guess I'm a hater.

I'm not saying he can't be elite. I'm not saying he isn't the best QB we've had since Marino (which isn't exactly saying much). I, and many others, prefer to rely on actual results to help predict how he'll evolve rather than just forecast the best case scenario irrespective of results. When I see people say things like Matt Ryan is his floor, or his ceiling is much higher than Russell Wilson I just shake my head. Russell Wilson could prove to be as good as it gets at the position, its ridiculous to say anybodies ceiling is much higher, let alone a QB that has proven to be nothing but mediocre to this point.

And speaking of Wilson this data shows that he's even with Jay Cutler and worse than Tony Romo, but the only QB I would take over him right now is Aaron Rodgers, so I completely understand that the ranking based on previous results does not necessarily correlate with the players future value.

Way to cherry pick stats and pretend like they're the truth!

 

[hoops]

That list speaks to a lack of understanding of the qb position...plain and simple...a complete whiff...Taking numbers in a vacuum and applying every qb situation as being the same....and of course undervaluing your own in the process

 

[roy_miami]

That list speaks to a lack of understanding of the qb position...plain and simple...a complete whiff...Taking numbers in a vacuum and applying every qb situation as being the same....and of course undervaluing your own in the process

Its a ranking based on measured statistics. Nothing more. Quit shooting the messenger.

 

[hoops]

Its a ranking based on measured statistics. Nothing more. Quit shooting the messenger.

The messenger needs to be smarter than this...even for informational purposes a light bulb should go off saying wait a minute this just doesn't add up...wtf

 

[Liphinphan]

Its a ranking based on measured statistics. Nothing more. Quit shooting the messenger.

When the messenger approves of the message....pushes his agenda with it, especially when the message seems flawed...the BULLSYEYE is perfectly placed. Let the bullets fly.