Raekwon Davis... | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Raekwon Davis...

ckparrothead said:
I don't know how you watch those games and think he's not a 2nd rounder.

He's brutalizing the offensive linemen he faces. He's getting off blocks. He's staying rooted against the double teams. When linemen go on the attack against him, they can't move him. And when he goes on the attack, most times in pass rush, you'll see two sets of eyes on him, lots of double-teaming. And if he's not doubled, the QB is on an egg timer, and uncomfortable because the pocket is collapsing. For the kind of player he is, his ability to get lateral and cut off the ball trying to escape the perimeter, or to turn around and chase the ball into the second level, is phenomenal.

The scheme fit is also superb.
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Yah but he wears Bama colours lol
 
ckparrothead said:
I don't know how you watch those games and think he's not a 2nd rounder.

He's brutalizing the offensive linemen he faces. He's getting off blocks. He's staying rooted against the double teams. When linemen go on the attack against him, they can't move him. And when he goes on the attack, most times in pass rush, you'll see two sets of eyes on him, lots of double-teaming. And if he's not doubled, the QB is on an egg timer, and uncomfortable because the pocket is collapsing. For the kind of player he is, his ability to get lateral and cut off the ball trying to escape the perimeter, or to turn around and chase the ball into the second level, is phenomenal.

The scheme fit is also superb.
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I agree with some of what you said and i did like a fair amount of tape i saw......minus the LSU tape where i felt Damien Lewis got the better of him time and time again (a guard still on the board in R3). That said, the downward trend of production and questions about maturity seemed to sour some on his overall ranking and draft value. So as was the case with Hunt, i felt we could have had him later.

I saw this quote on him:
Davis said at the NFL combine, “There were a lot of things I wasn’t doing to improve my game. I wasn’t really focused enough sometimes.” If Saban and Bama can't get guys to focus, will they focus once in the league with money in their pockets? There's risk in that.

You shift Hunt to 56, Davis to 70 and take a high talent player at 39......or trade back (as was reported for Miami at 39), pick up some additional ammo to move around, then i start to see an elite draft class with exceptional value. Instead i see a good draft class that sets a base but left opportunities on the table.

The talent still on the boards at 39/56: Shenault/Mims, Taylor/Dobbins/Akers/Dillon, Blacklock/Elliott, Delpit/Winfield/Ashtyn Davis/Chinn, Uche/Baun, Cleveland/Lewis/Jones. I'm sure i'm missing others but those immediately come to mind.

You do run the risk of losing those guys but you also have ammo to jump back up with 4th/5th round picks in your pockets if you feel a team ahead may take them.
If you wait too long and lose Hunt, you still have Damien Lewis available. If you wait too long on Davis, you have Hamilton, Elliott, Gallimore on the board as well as many of the centers still out there at a position of need. Plus there's a few true nose tackles later in Fotu, Peninsini, Roy.
 
If the Dolphins thought they could get Hunt at 56 then they'd have taken him at 56.

I remember speaking to Ethan about this on draft night, who was recalling a conversation he had with Andy Elisburg from the Heat. Andy constantly shat all over fans and amateur media who would always talk about how they could have drafted so-and-so later in the draft, etc.
 
Flores seemed more than happy right after drafting him. A couple of times he imitated, I assume Davis, ability to use his hands by grabbing the front of a jersey and tossing the player aside like a like a windshield wiper.
 
AdamD13 said:
Flores seemed more than happy right after drafting him. A couple of times he imitated, I assume Davis, ability to use his hands by grabbing the front of a jersey and tossing the player aside like a like a windshield wiper.
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That's when you are playing against an o-lineman who will be in the workforce when they graduate. Any lineman he faced and their name was call by Roger Goodell gave him everything he could want.
 
ckparrothead said:
If the Dolphins thought they could get Hunt at 56 then they'd have taken him at 56.

I remember speaking to Ethan about this on draft night, who was recalling a conversation he had with Andy Elisburg from the Heat. Andy constantly shat all over fans and amateur media who would always talk about how they could have drafted so-and-so later in the draft, etc.
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I said in another thread that it's not always amateur fans. Guys on NFL network who were former scouts/GMs, beat writers, former players etc have lots of contacts in the industry and talk to front office personnel all the time. They have ideas on how teams view people. If they didn't, we wouldn't see 1st round picks so accurate at times. So it's not completely unrealistic to say certain guys could have gone later. It's impossible to prove because once a guy is taken, you'll never know where he might have fallen......which is the benefit these GMs have going for them.

Mayock took Arnette at 19. I don't think anyone saw that coming, at least based on the general feedback you hear.....and that's coming from someone like me who was higher on Arnette than most. So is it ok to say a guy like Arnette was overdrafted, but not a guy like Hunt or Davis?

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Like my parents taught me at a young age, money is the only item worth anything. Anything else is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That's the draft. Value is seen differently by everyone. It's all opinion based. If guys work out, nobody will remember or care. If they don't, everyone will scrutinized where they were picked and who was passed over.
 
ckparrothead said:
If the Dolphins thought they could get Hunt at 56 then they'd have taken him at 56.

I remember speaking to Ethan about this on draft night, who was recalling a conversation he had with Andy Elisburg from the Heat. Andy constantly shat all over fans and amateur media who would always talk about how they could have drafted so-and-so later in the draft, etc.
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CK - where did you expect or hear Hunt would come off the board? Do you think if we took a skill player at 30, he would have still dropped enough where Miami could have used some 4/5's to move up and still get him?
 
From all the mocks I saw, I thought we could get Hunt at 70, so getting him at 56 is not unrealistic. We would need to look at all the teams in between to see who would have reasonably taken him or could have come up to get him.

but every draft class looks 100x better if you can get the same players one pick later. Eagles fans would love Hurts if they took him in the 3rd.

i agree that value is part of the game of the draft, but that’s secondary. The primary job is to find good players who fit what you do.

That being said, I would have rather rolled the dice at 56 on Mims, Uche, Gay, Chinn or Ashtyn Davis and hoped for Raekwon to be there at 70.
 
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PSU Cane said:
I said in another thread that it's not always amateur fans. Guys on NFL network who were former scouts/GMs, beat writers, former players etc have lots of contacts in the industry and talk to front office personnel all the time. They have ideas on how teams view people. If they didn't, we wouldn't see 1st round picks so accurate at times. So it's not completely unrealistic to say certain guys could have gone later. It's impossible to prove because once a guy is taken, you'll never know where he might have fallen......which is the benefit these GMs have going for them.

Mayock took Arnette at 19. I don't think anyone saw that coming, at least based on the general feedback you hear.....and that's coming from someone like me who was higher on Arnette than most. So is it ok to say a guy like Arnette was overdrafted, but not a guy like Hunt or Davis?

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Like my parents taught me at a young age, money is the only item worth anything. Anything else is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That's the draft. Value is seen differently by everyone. It's all opinion based. If guys work out, nobody will remember or care. If they don't, everyone will scrutinized where they were picked and who was passed over.
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Fans apply later later all the time, especially to lesser known names. I think that's the annoyance. But there's no question it is often valid. If a team gets burned in an early round they sometimes get frustrated and grab the next guy earlier than intended, simply to prevent it from happening again. Decades ago I remember Bum Phillips conceding as much right after the draft. He said it was uncanny how the Steelers were taking the guy they were targeting. Then he said yeah their next guy probably would have been there a round later but the entire draft room was kind of on tilt after all the frustrations so he wanted to calm everybody down by taking the preferred guy above where they had intended.

However, I don't think it applies to Robert Hunt. As I mentioned the other day there is a Rams fan on another site who annually has an uncanny feel for the players who will be picked early on day two. His top guy was Tee Higgins. Then he named only a handful of others. Robert Hunt was among them. I've been so impressed by the Rams fans instincts over the years that I quickly replied that I hoped the Dolphins chose from his list. When it played out that way it felt like a system wager. Those are the greatest of all, when you win a wager but really have no idea why you bet on that team in the first place.
 
PSU Cane said:
CK - where did you expect or hear Hunt would come off the board? Do you think if we took a skill player at 30, he would have still dropped enough where Miami could have used some 4/5's to move up and still get him?
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Exactly where he came off. Excluding Tristan Wirfs who some believe should move to guard but will have a long career at tackle, Robert Hunt was the top guard in the draft. And he will have the opportunity to show if he’s a Ja’Wuan James at right tackle first. That comes off early 2nd round quite a bit. Sometimes earlier than that.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Fans apply later later all the time, especially to lesser known names. I think that's the annoyance. But there's no question it is often valid. If a team gets burned in an early round they sometimes get frustrated and grab the next guy earlier than intended, simply to prevent it from happening again. Decades ago I remember Bum Phillips conceding as much right after the draft. He said it was uncanny how the Steelers were taking the guy they were targeting. Then he said yeah their next guy probably would have been there a round later but the entire draft room was kind of on tilt after all the frustrations so he wanted to calm everybody down by taking the preferred guy above where they had intended.

However, I don't think it applies to Robert Hunt. As I mentioned the other day there is a Rams fan on another site who annually has an uncanny feel for the players who will be picked early on day two. His top guy was Tee Higgins. Then he named only a handful of others. Robert Hunt was among them. I've been so impressed by the Rams fans instincts over the years that I quickly replied that I hoped the Dolphins chose from his list. When it played out that way it felt like a system wager. Those are the greatest of all, when you win a wager but really have no idea why you bet on that team in the first place.
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I respect the varying opinions on here and i don't blindly devalue small school names like some....i try to be realistic based on what i see, hear and think. It drives good debate. Regardless of slot, the player is good.
 
Am I wrong to think Raekwon Davis is more of a base 3/4 DE in Flores system, who's versatility will move inside on passing downs. Kind of like the way Miami used Kendall Langford when they drafted him?
 
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