Rafael Palmeiro finally does it

[phunwin]

I compare Palmeiro to Vinny T.

GM, I've read your posts. I know for a fact that you're too smart to seriously hold an opinion that dumb.

Career numbers just don't mean as much in the NFL as they do in MLB. Careers are much shorter on average, and longevity does NOT correlate to greatness. In MLB, if you've been playing for 20 years, you've almost always been a good to very good player for most of your career. Not so in the NFL; many great players only play 6 or 7 years because of injuries or the inherent short shelf-life of their position (i.e. Earl Campbell). And many mediocre players carve out lengthy careers, particularly at the QB position.

Though baseball has become a more hitter-friendly sport over the last decade, it doesn't compare with the explosion of passing stats in the NFL. Moreover, in the NFL, a mediocre QB can hang around for a VERY long time by virtue of the fact that many coaches are deathly afraid of not having a veteran QB under center. Testaverde is monument to both of these. Vinny generated impressive career numbers just by virtue of the fact that not many guys can play QB in the NFL. Palmeiro generated impressive career numbers despite the fact that sluggers who can play first base are a dime a dozen. HUGE difference.

 

[MikeO]

Why is he a HOF player.. Is it just because he has 500 HR and 3000 Hits... That all you can tell me about Palmeiro as a player. He is the worst player to reach each goal. I guess Jim Thome just has to get to 500 HR and he is in..

YES! If Thome hits 500 he is in. It's an automatic in baseball terms!

Plus, Palmerio will hit 600 before he retires! Even fewer people have EVER done that.

Why is he a hall of fame player.....LOOK AT HIS NUMBERS! Most people get either 500+ home runs or 3,000 hits. HE HAS BOTH! If he isn't a hall of fame player then shut down the hall of fame and close it.

 

[GreenMonster]

GM, I've read your posts. I know for a fact that you're too smart to seriously hold an opinion that dumb.

Career numbers just don't mean as much in the NFL as they do in MLB. Careers are much shorter on average, and longevity does NOT correlate to greatness. In MLB, if you've been playing for 20 years, you've almost always been a good to very good player for most of your career. Not so in the NFL; many great players only play 6 or 7 years because of injuries or the inherent short shelf-life of their position (i.e. Earl Campbell). And many mediocre players carve out lengthy careers, particularly at the QB position.

Though baseball has become a more hitter-friendly sport over the last decade, it doesn't compare with the explosion of passing stats in the NFL. Moreover, in the NFL, a mediocre QB can hang around for a VERY long time by virtue of the fact that many coaches are deathly afraid of not having a veteran QB under center. Testaverde is monument to both of these. Vinny generated impressive career numbers just by virtue of the fact that not many guys can play QB in the NFL. Palmeiro generated impressive career numbers despite the fact that sluggers who can play first base are a dime a dozen. HUGE difference.

I do think Palmeiro is a great player.. He may be the most consistent hitters in all of MLB history... But with numbers growing very quickly using the 500, 3000 is quickly growing old. I don't think of the HOF in terms of just numbers which is why I brought up Vinny T. He won't come close to making yet will finish very high is all QB stats. Palmeiro never finished higher than 5th in MVP voting and didn't do well in the postseason. I believe their is not doubt he will make the HOF, but at some point people will have to look past people's totals.. He may be the most consistently best hitters since Hank Aaron but I have a hard time calling him "Great" like all others in the 500+ HR category..

 

[MikeO]

3,000 will NEVER grow old.

 

[GreenMonster]

YES! If Thome hits 500 he is in. It's an automatic in baseball terms!

Plus, Palmerio will hit 600 before he retires! Even fewer people have EVER done that.

Why is he a hall of fame player.....LOOK AT HIS NUMBERS! Most people get either 500+ home runs or 3,000 hits. HE HAS BOTH! If he isn't a hall of fame player then shut down the hall of fame and close it.

So you won't vote McGriff in with 493, but had Consenco hit 500 it would be automatic... ?

 

[GreenMonster]

3,000 will NEVER grow old.

I would tend to agree with that, but the average length of a players career is rising with players staying in shape much better and longer.

 

[MikeO]

So you won't vote McGriff in with 493, but had Consenco hit 500 it would be automatic... ?

Canseco isn't (or wouldn't) be going in for OTHER reasons now. Much like Pete Rose (sort of kind of in a roundabout way). McGriff doesn't have 500 so why even discuss it. That's why that number has been magic. It's so hard to get, someone can get so close but not get it.

 

[MikeO]

I would tend to agree with that, but the average length of a players career is rising with players staying in shape much better and longer.

doesn't matter. a hit is a hit. Whether its 1927, 1968 or 2005

 

[GreenMonster]

Canseco isn't (or wouldn't) be going in for OTHER reasons now. Much like Pete Rose (sort of kind of in a roundabout way). McGriff doesn't have 500 so why even discuss it. That's why that number has been magic. It's so hard to get, someone can get so close but not get it.

I guess I have tougher standards for HOF(greatest players in baseball) than they hit 500 HR they are in. Go Jim Thome you better get to 500 or you have no chance.. Hit 500 and its your in no questions asked. Good Luck, stay healthy..

 

[GreenMonster]

GM, I've read your posts. I know for a fact that you're too smart to seriously hold an opinion that dumb.

Career numbers just don't mean as much in the NFL as they do in MLB. Careers are much shorter on average, and longevity does NOT correlate to greatness. In MLB, if you've been playing for 20 years, you've almost always been a good to very good player for most of your career. Not so in the NFL; many great players only play 6 or 7 years because of injuries or the inherent short shelf-life of their position (i.e. Earl Campbell). And many mediocre players carve out lengthy careers, particularly at the QB position.

Though baseball has become a more hitter-friendly sport over the last decade, it doesn't compare with the explosion of passing stats in the NFL. Moreover, in the NFL, a mediocre QB can hang around for a VERY long time by virtue of the fact that many coaches are deathly afraid of not having a veteran QB under center. Testaverde is monument to both of these. Vinny generated impressive career numbers just by virtue of the fact that not many guys can play QB in the NFL. Palmeiro generated impressive career numbers despite the fact that sluggers who can play first base are a dime a dozen. HUGE difference.

I guess its just sad to me that Palmeiro's career totals will get him in but better players like Murray, Murphy, Dawson, won't make it. I wish people could look past the numbers like we do in the NFL and ask yourself is this guy truly one of the greatest of alltime..

 

[MikeO]

I guess its just sad to me that Palmeiro's career totals will get him in but better players like Murray, Murphy, Dawson, won't make it..

Murry is already in! :shakeno:

 

[phunwin]

Murphy wasn't better by a long shot and Dawson was vastly overrated. What was his career OBP, .325 or something? Murphy was excellent for about 7 or 8 years and terrible after that.

 

[RWhitney014]

You want more numbers for Palmeiro? A career .994 fielding %age, 97 career SBs...tell me, how many guys have 500 HR, 3000 H, and 100 SBs? And his SB success rate is over 70%; it's considered good for basestealers to be over 66%. How about a career .887 OPS? 1826 career RBI, an average of 101/season. This will be his 15th consecutive season with 20 or more homers. He will probably get to 610 homers, 3200 hits, and 2000 RBI. 12 seasons of at least 150 hits. No more than 109 Ks in a single season, an average of 74/season. 1343 career BBs, 1337 career Ks. 75 walks/season, 7 seasons of 80 BBs or more. 1187 career extra base hits.

Those are HOF numbers. Just because he was classy as opposed to flashy, clean as opposed to newsworthy for the wrong reasons shouldn't keep him out. Simply because his numbers were devalued in an era when juiced batters like Canseco, McGwire, and Sosa were outdoing him shouldn't discredit him; in fact, it should be praise for him to be considered in the same breath that he was clean during that time.

 

[FinsNYanksFan13]

I agree Whitney. Just because Palmeiro did his thing quietly doesn't mean he is less deserving then other guys!

 

[GreenMonster]

You want more numbers for Palmeiro? A career .994 fielding %age, 97 career SBs...tell me, how many guys have 500 HR, 3000 H, and 100 SBs? And his SB success rate is over 70%; it's considered good for basestealers to be over 66%. How about a career .887 OPS? 1826 career RBI, an average of 101/season. This will be his 15th consecutive season with 20 or more homers. He will probably get to 610 homers, 3200 hits, and 2000 RBI. 12 seasons of at least 150 hits. No more than 109 Ks in a single season, an average of 74/season. 1343 career BBs, 1337 career Ks. 75 walks/season, 7 seasons of 80 BBs or more. 1187 career extra base hits.

Those are HOF numbers. Just because he was classy as opposed to flashy, clean as opposed to newsworthy for the wrong reasons shouldn't keep him out. Simply because his numbers were devalued in an era when juiced batters like Canseco, McGwire, and Sosa were outdoing him shouldn't discredit him; in fact, it should be praise for him to be considered in the same breath that he was clean during that time.

In Palmeiro's 19 season's he has 4 All-Star appearences.. His highest MVP finish is 5th. He never lead the league in HR, AVG, or RBI.. He has 3 gold gloves.. (Dawson 1 MVP, 8 Gold Gloves, Murphy 2 MVP's, 7-time All-Star_)

I think the guy was a great hitter.. But I reserve the HOF for the greatest players in baseball.. Was Palmeiro ever one of the most dominate players of the last 19 years... No...