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Ray wants Miami

Originally posted by ckparrothead
Nice. Currently I think we should sign Ricky Ray, re-sign Sage to a 3 year deal (he's an RFA I believe), and then draft Phil Rivers in the first round or get Drew Henson but Rivers is 1 to Henson's 1a on my choice list.

We could have Ricky Ray and Sage Rosenfels battle for the #1 spot. Forget Mark Brunell, he's too gun shy to put up with us getting Rivers or Henson and to me that means he's lost his committment to winning and excellence...because if Brunell was performing well and this team was winning he knows darn well there won't be any pressure for that Rookie QB to come in during 2004 or even 2005. So by saying he doesnt wanna go to a team with a 1st round QB, he's covering his butt in case he starts sucking and the team starts losing.

Ricky Ray, Sage Rosenfels, and a rookie like Henson or Rivers would be young, hungry players looking to make their name and make some money. If either Ray or Sage end up starting and performing well, all the sudden we've got a surplus at the QB position to trade to other teams, instead of us always waiting for another team to have a surplus then sending draft picks over toward them.
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This is an interesting proposition but it will absolutely never happen, nor should it unless this team decides that it's in full blown rebuilding mode; and we all know it's nog going to go that route at this time. What you're proposing here would be to go into opening day of the 2004 NFL season with not one, not two, but THREE unproven QB's on the roster and, barring a miracle, that basically spells NFL season suicide.

I can actually think of three recent instances where this has happened and, of those three, only one team-- Baltimore-- has ultimately made the playoffs.

I'm not saying I dislike this idea-- I actually wouldn't be too upset if the 'Fins went that route-- but, with a coaching staff that's been given a "win now" mandate you have to believe that there is absolutely no way this team goes into rebuilding mode at this moment.
 
Thanks for the stats guys!! Why is he the desired canidate over the two that had higher ratings last year? Is it b/c he can run a bit? His age? Wondering if anyone knows why he seems to be the next CFL guy to make the move.


Oh and does anyone hate him??????? "he" perhaps?
 
Seen a few clips of his play...not enough imo to form a decent opinion either way...seemed to be able to read D's, had mobility, and good enough arm strength...I'd really like to see more though.
 
The other two are older chaps....one is 32 the other is 34....I would say those are the primary reasons....
 
No Ray Keep Jay!

Honestly, in watching this guy here in Edmonton, I dont beleive he has what it takes to be in the NFL just yet, and they want him to be a starter or back up...why does he not go visit Ryan Leaf and see where that attitude got him. Look at Doug Flutie, comes out of the gate flying, then what? In San Fran, another CFL product, year one, pro bowl, year two- bum! Is this the answer to our offence? In my opinion, no. I think Jay is the guy to keep, we have to keep our faith, I know I have! Jay has been inconsistent, but so has the play calling...see how he played on the sunday night before thanksgiving, and then on thanksgiving, he was outstanding. And we loved him! I think all it is going to take is some positive play calling and maybe some better blocking in the o-line, give him more time to see the wide open receivers that are waiting for him.

Just my $.02:cool:
 
Originally posted by Danny
I just don't see us going with 3 QB's with no starting experience in the NFL at all. I think that if Jay and Griese are gone, they'll bring in a veteran to go along with 2 younger guys(Ray,Rivers, Henson or Sage)but I don't think they'll start a rookie or Ray or Sage imo.

Ozzy rules!!
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Jay,. Huard, #3 during jay's first year. Neither Jay or Huard was a starter. What's your point?
 
Re: No Ray Keep Jay!

Originally posted by xtreme3
Honestly, in watching this guy here in Edmonton, I dont beleive he has what it takes to be in the NFL just yet, and they want him to be a starter or back up...why does he not go visit Ryan Leaf and see where that attitude got him. Look at Doug Flutie, comes out of the gate flying, then what? In San Fran, another CFL product, year one, pro bowl, year two- bum! Is this the answer to our offence? In my opinion, no. I think Jay is the guy to keep, we have to keep our faith, I know I have! Jay has been inconsistent, but so has the play calling...see how he played on the sunday night before thanksgiving, and then on thanksgiving, he was outstanding. And we loved him! I think all it is going to take is some positive play calling and maybe some better blocking in the o-line, give him more time to see the wide open receivers that are waiting for him.

Just my $.02:cool:
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Not for nothing but Jay may also only be worth $.02. Unfortunately he is due about $6,000,000. That is $5,999,999.98 too much!!!:yell:
 
First off lets get the story straight on Sage Rosenfels. He's been here TWO years, not three. This will be his third. The first year he was brought to Miami, he was traded for after half to 3/4s of the preseason was already done and over with. Steve Spurrier had let him play in like 2 or 3 preseason games, then shipped him over here. In other words, the kid had like 0 chance of learning the offense enough to even be a full-time BACKUP QB. The coaches knew it. They admitted it, said he was a future prospect but realistically didn't expect him to play after missing ALL of our training camp and MOST of our preseason not having had a gander even at our playbook until about 2 weeks before the season started. Plus if you will remember, Ray Lucas had already backed up the position for us in 2001 and though he didn't get much of a chance to play, he did well when the coaches had him come in during certain goal-to-go situations etc. Ray Lucas also looked very good in practice. Don't you remember the people that were screaming during the preseason of 2002 for Ray Lucas to start over Jay Fiedler? That ought to give you an idea of the chances Sage Rosenfels had in 2002 of breaking into either the backup job or the starting job...which is to say, NONE.

Then here comes 2003. Everyone is so depressed about how we got "Ray Lucas'd" last season. There is ENORMOUS pressure for the FO to sign a proven veteran to make sure, by golly, that this never happens again. Rumors start abounding about Brian Griese. Everyone wants Brian Griese. There's SO MUCH pressure, that Dave Wannstedt CAVES IN to getting Griese even though he knew from Day 1 there would be enormous QB controversy. But being a capable backup wasn't the only reason Griese was brought in. No no no. If you'll notice, the second year of Griese's contract was structured so that he'll take up about as much room as Fiedler is set to take up in 2004. This is no coincidence, for some of the Front Office half expected that Griese would show up here and blow away Jay Fiedler, be our QB of the future. No doubt at the end of this season they thought they would be cutting only one of the two QBs, not both of them...and in that case, Sage Rosenfels gets the promotion to full-time backup.

So you see, its not that the coaches never planned to give Sage the full-time backup position. He was in their plans, its just that once again something has derailed these plans, namely the fact that both Jay Fiedler AND Brian Griese blew chunks all over themselves...causing a massive uproar and everyone to finally say ok we're getting a new QB.

To say that Sage whiled away down here as the #3 QB and never impressed anyone, is completely unfair. Norv Turner himself not only said to the papers that Sage WILL START in this league, he said he will be a really GOOD starter too. You think he says that about a Clint Stoerner? You think he says that about that one dude who followed Chan Gailey here to Miami? The injustice of what they did in burying Sage in 2003 was such that the coaches on numerous occasions felt obliged to basically publically apologize in the papers and explain that Sage should have been given the opportunity but the team wants two starter quality guys. If Sage had been here for two years and just never impressed anyone, the coaches would have felt 0 need to do something like that. In fact, they would have just gotten rid of him.

He's been here two years now, he knows the system, he knows the players, he's got the mobility, he's got the arm, and he's got the touch on his throws. AND, unlike a Mark Brunell, he's been battling the whole time and he's hungry and isn't afraid of a little competition. I've seen the guy in training camp too, twice I think. And in preseason. And while he hasn't blown me away I've seen enough to envision him running this offense pretty effectively...and if he does even better than that and actually learns on the job a bit? Say hello to a first round pick for trading Sage Rosenfels to like, the NY Giants or someone. Everyone will be talkin about how dumb Spurrier was to get rid of him and how it was a typical Spurrier dumb@ss decision etc.

People forget that the best this franchise ever did under Wannstedt was in 2000, when we brought in an unproven backup QB in Jay Fiedler to battle with a guy who had played in 5 games in relief of Dan Marino in 99, for the starters gig. We had a castoff RB from New Orleans who was hungry to finally show what he could do. We went 11-5 and beat the Colts in the wildcard round. But then the team, extremely tired and worn, got minced up by the Oakland Raiders. Still since then we've been back to the playoffs only once, and we got stomped by the Ravens in the wildcard round.

Whoever said you need a proven veteran to get you to the playoffs, the Cowboys and Panthers must not have been listening.
 
BTW those are some impressive stats on Ricky Ray even if it is the CFL. His coach said he's a few years away from being an NFL prospect, but lets face it he might just be trying to keep Ricky Ray in Edmonton!!
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
Whoever said you need a proven veteran to get you to the playoffs, the Cowboys and Panthers must not have been listening.
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and Ravens

nice points CK - we cannot count out Sage anymore than guys like Hasselback, Favre, Brunnell and other who just sat on the bench waiting to get a chance. The part I wonder about is how much Sage was in Mia because of Norv (he drafted him right ?). If he is good enuf to be a #2, you would expect us to make a 1st rd. tender on him - so that will be the true indicator of his value. The obvious statement that he is a big part of the future w/b a l-t contract - but I somehow doubt he will get one
 
Favre only sat on the bench 1 year in Atlanta before he was traded to Green Bay and started immediately...and Brunell sat on the bench in 93 and 94 before heading to Jacksonville and starting immediately...Sage has been sitting on the bench for 3 years now but his first year well he was a 5th round rookie what do you expect him to do, and the next two years he was screwed over by Spurrier and the Dolphins. We haven't seen what he can fully do but I think he's shown enough in practice that if we can win with Jay Fiedler at the helm then we can win with Sage Rosenfels at the helm.
 
Originally posted by MissMeth



Ive gone to training camps the last two years and in both years, i saw much of nothing from him. Dont get me wrong.. i like the guy and if he really had it i would like for him to play for us. But he's been with this team for 3 years and he is STILL the #3 guy??! You would think he would be #2 by now if he really had it. We go pick up Ray Lucas and then Brian Griese instead of promoting him?! That should tell you something big guy. He plays a lot during training camps and i just dont see how he will benefit this team. Sorry... just my opinion.
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No need to be sorry about your opinion but, since I didn't get to answer this post sooner I now can save some typing by saying "see CK's post concerning this....he said it much better than I could have."

Originally posted by Trekbiz


Well would'nt a strong sign of Sage's potential be that the organizations talk of not only brining in a veteran QB but also drafting one for the future???

Surely if the organization thought Sage had huge upside then bringing in a vet would be the only situation they'd be looking at and not also bringing in a kid for the future.

Then again.... This is the same organization that gave the Fiedler expirement 4 long years before they realized it was a bomb.
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Ticket sales.

Wayne anounces that Wanny's still the coach, while neither Jay or BG is coming back, the third string QB is going to be the starter and we will only be looking for a back-up QB in ***ency...... ticket sales will suffer....No matter HOW MUCH they try and build up Sage's attributes to the fans....
 
Thank you for explaining something that I have been unable to put into words myself. Good post.

Originally posted by ckparrothead
First off lets get the story straight on Sage Rosenfels. He's been here TWO years, not three. This will be his third. The first year he was brought to Miami, he was traded for after half to 3/4s of the preseason was already done and over with. Steve Spurrier had let him play in like 2 or 3 preseason games, then shipped him over here. In other words, the kid had like 0 chance of learning the offense enough to even be a full-time BACKUP QB. The coaches knew it. They admitted it, said he was a future prospect but realistically didn't expect him to play after missing ALL of our training camp and MOST of our preseason not having had a gander even at our playbook until about 2 weeks before the season started. Plus if you will remember, Ray Lucas had already backed up the position for us in 2001 and though he didn't get much of a chance to play, he did well when the coaches had him come in during certain goal-to-go situations etc. Ray Lucas also looked very good in practice. Don't you remember the people that were screaming during the preseason of 2002 for Ray Lucas to start over Jay Fiedler? That ought to give you an idea of the chances Sage Rosenfels had in 2002 of breaking into either the backup job or the starting job...which is to say, NONE.

Then here comes 2003. Everyone is so depressed about how we got "Ray Lucas'd" last season. There is ENORMOUS pressure for the FO to sign a proven veteran to make sure, by golly, that this never happens again. Rumors start abounding about Brian Griese. Everyone wants Brian Griese. There's SO MUCH pressure, that Dave Wannstedt CAVES IN to getting Griese even though he knew from Day 1 there would be enormous QB controversy. But being a capable backup wasn't the only reason Griese was brought in. No no no. If you'll notice, the second year of Griese's contract was structured so that he'll take up about as much room as Fiedler is set to take up in 2004. This is no coincidence, for some of the Front Office half expected that Griese would show up here and blow away Jay Fiedler, be our QB of the future. No doubt at the end of this season they thought they would be cutting only one of the two QBs, not both of them...and in that case, Sage Rosenfels gets the promotion to full-time backup.

So you see, its not that the coaches never planned to give Sage the full-time backup position. He was in their plans, its just that once again something has derailed these plans, namely the fact that both Jay Fiedler AND Brian Griese blew chunks all over themselves...causing a massive uproar and everyone to finally say ok we're getting a new QB.

To say that Sage whiled away down here as the #3 QB and never impressed anyone, is completely unfair. Norv Turner himself not only said to the papers that Sage WILL START in this league, he said he will be a really GOOD starter too. You think he says that about a Clint Stoerner? You think he says that about that one dude who followed Chan Gailey here to Miami? The injustice of what they did in burying Sage in 2003 was such that the coaches on numerous occasions felt obliged to basically publically apologize in the papers and explain that Sage should have been given the opportunity but the team wants two starter quality guys. If Sage had been here for two years and just never impressed anyone, the coaches would have felt 0 need to do something like that. In fact, they would have just gotten rid of him.

He's been here two years now, he knows the system, he knows the players, he's got the mobility, he's got the arm, and he's got the touch on his throws. AND, unlike a Mark Brunell, he's been battling the whole time and he's hungry and isn't afraid of a little competition. I've seen the guy in training camp too, twice I think. And in preseason. And while he hasn't blown me away I've seen enough to envision him running this offense pretty effectively...and if he does even better than that and actually learns on the job a bit? Say hello to a first round pick for trading Sage Rosenfels to like, the NY Giants or someone. Everyone will be talkin about how dumb Spurrier was to get rid of him and how it was a typical Spurrier dumb@ss decision etc.

People forget that the best this franchise ever did under Wannstedt was in 2000, when we brought in an unproven backup QB in Jay Fiedler to battle with a guy who had played in 5 games in relief of Dan Marino in 99, for the starters gig. We had a castoff RB from New Orleans who was hungry to finally show what he could do. We went 11-5 and beat the Colts in the wildcard round. But then the team, extremely tired and worn, got minced up by the Oakland Raiders. Still since then we've been back to the playoffs only once, and we got stomped by the Ravens in the wildcard round.

Whoever said you need a proven veteran to get you to the playoffs, the Cowboys and Panthers must not have been listening.
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