Re-Grading 2012 Draft.... ireland getting some love??

[phintim]

Like I have pointed out before going back in past Dolphins drafts the last 20 years plus prior to Ireland the Dolphins have not done to well in comparison. We have had a ton of busted first round picks right on down the line to lower tiered picks during those years. This is the most drafted players we have had on our roster in years after changing coaches whom also brought in different defensive and offensive packages to the team that Ireland had to deal with. When grading the state of the team you really have 2 consideration the cook and the guy buying the groceries. We now know that Sporano the cook was bad, you might have your opinion about Ireland the grocery man but the jury is out on Philbin the cook thats for sure. Really this debate reminds me of all the unhappy fans and media we had back when Shula was coaching that eventually led to running Shula out of town and since that time we have had a very medocre to poor product on the field in comparison but what the heck the fans and media got what they wanted.

 

[hoops]

irelands drafts have sucked...not sure why anyone would defend them...crappy drafts crappy free agent moneys spent...crappy gm

good riddance

 

[LDaniel7]

Ireland was good at Late round picks… 2-3 not so much.. but he was great at finding acorns.. If he would of hit more on those 2-3 rounders he'd still probably be here…

People FAIL to realize that most of those "acorns" that become starters DO SO BECAUSE OF NECESSITY not because they are great players.

In other words, if Ireland had even hit on a few good 2-3 round picks, probably none of those acorns make the roster. Just because an "acorn" becomes a mediocre player that starts on a poor to mediocre team does NOT make it a great thing.

It means your GM sucks so bad at middle round drafting that the team is forced to find adequate starters in the MEH acorns that drop in -- and then puff up their oh-so-mediocre abilities in selling them to fans.

Then, the acorn leaves (like Bess), replaced by a fairly mediocre player (like Gibson) who makes the acorn seem like exactly what he is: Acorn filling a slot that should have been filled w. better talent from day one.

LD

 

[utahphinsfan]

It comes out to a "GPA" of 2.2 which is C/C+... hardly the stuff legendary GM's are made of.

 

[AFCMiamiEast]

It's tough to grade because at the time we still had Jake Long and a seemingly good OL. I thought Martin seemed like a good pick, protecting the best QB in the draft. With the WR woes in Tannehill's first year, and the OL debacle in year 2, who can really say just how good Miller, Egnew, and Matthews are? This season will be telling.

Although I think Tannehill is great, he's still got a whole lot to prove. OV is really the only sure-fire great player from the bunch.

I was going to like your post until I read the bold. He is anything but a "surefire great player." Has he been a great pick thus far? Hell yeah. However, most of his sack production from last season was on 2nd chance plays and coverage sacks. He has a lot of potential, but one "good" (not great) season does not validate him as a "surefire great player". I am glad we picked him though (especially as a 'Canes fan :) ).

Did you say "protecting the best QB in the draft"? If you are putting RT above Luck and RGIII, not to mention Russell Wilson and Nick Foles, you are quite a homer.

RG III is in the same class as Tannehill IMO, I don't understand why he is consistently placed on the same pedestal as Luck and Wilson (outside of his high draft status).

 

[CalDolFan10x14]

Guys, you all need to "get real" and remember how Ireland drafted "like a boss"!

 

[Rev Kev]

LDaniel7 get it.....

People FAIL to realize that most of those "acorns" that become starters DO SO BECAUSE OF NECESSITY not because they are great players. LDaniel7

JI suporters need to WAKE up!

 

[phintim]

irelands drafts have sucked...not sure why anyone would defend them...crappy drafts crappy free agent moneys spent...crappy gm

good riddance

Easy to defend Ireland when comparing his drafts to prior Dolphins drafts and I have seen plenty of them. If you want to compare him to all the GM's in the NFL another story that I have not studied up on so its not a debate at the moment. I am certainly not convinced Hickey is an upgrade after being fired bascially from the lowly Bucs (I am hopeful that he is) and also taking into the account the fact that basically no other GM in the NFL would take our job. Something smells. Everything else I see everyone thowing out their is just their opinions which is fine but those same opinions as I noted earlier ran Shula out of town and since then this has been a "much" worse team for it. Regarless Philbin and Ross have their front office in place we should know soon how much better or worse shape we are in. I just hate the thought of wasting another couple years getting there. Thats been happin since 1998.

 

[mithga13]

Drafting he was middle of the road. His big free agent moves were absolute disasters pretty much throughout. And no one expects any GM to be better than 50/50...even Jimmy was about 50/50 and he's considered maybe the best ever at the draft. He accumulated picks every chance he got, and he drafted based on physical talent and football intelligence. So he hit fairly regularly, but he also usually had an abundance of picks.

Even when Ireland got a free agent, he drastically overpaid for him and could've been smarter getting two other players. I still say to this day, we would've been better with Greg Jennings and Jermon Bushrod rather than Wallace. That 2nd round pick he didn't want to give for Branden Albert? He traded away for a rookie who was stepping on to the field injured and needing to bulk up....and he was playing behind arguably our best defensive player.

Jeff Ireland was an epic failure, but your right, not because of his drafting.

As I have always said. Jeff was not as bad as people make him out to be and not as good as others wanted him to be. He was middle of the road.

 

[tay0365]

Guys, you all need to "get real" and remember how Ireland drafted "like a boss"!

Well, he's now on a permanent vacation "like a boss"

 

[fin-atic]

When grading the draft you have to compare them to the other players drafted and the quality players at that position playing in the NFL. The drafted player has to be an impact player, solid starter to even get a C. To get As and Bs they have to be among the best in the league. Other than Cameron Wake and Brent Grimes we do not have any "A" players on this team. When you look at that draft there is not a single star in the group. And I am sorry the fact they are a starter does not make them a "win". It just means they beat out the three dregs who were worse than them on this crappy roster. Look, I am sorry but this team has been drenched in mediocrity to poor talent for years. When was the last honest to God star we drafted? Jake Long? Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Sam Madison, and Pat Surtain? We didn't even draft Cam Wake. We got nothing. Sorry but Ireland ruined this team. If Tannehill doesn't raise his game this year he is going just be another Fiedler/Henne type product and at #8 overall that would suck. He may do it, but the time is now.

 

[Spesh]

Like I have pointed out before going back in past Dolphins drafts the last 20 years plus prior to Ireland the Dolphins have not done to well in comparison. We have had a ton of busted first round picks right on down the line to lower tiered picks during those years. This is the most drafted players we have had on our roster in years after changing coaches whom also brought in different defensive and offensive packages to the team that Ireland had to deal with. When grading the state of the team you really have 2 consideration the cook and the guy buying the groceries. We now know that Sporano the cook was bad, you might have your opinion about Ireland the grocery man but the jury is out on Philbin the cook thats for sure. Really this debate reminds me of all the unhappy fans and media we had back when Shula was coaching that eventually led to running Shula out of town and since that time we have had a very medocre to poor product on the field in comparison but what the heck the fans and media got what they wanted.

Easy to defend Ireland when comparing his drafts to prior Dolphins drafts and I have seen plenty of them. If you want to compare him to all the GM's in the NFL another story that I have not studied up on so its not a debate at the moment. I am certainly not convinced Hickey is an upgrade after being fired bascially from the lowly Bucs (I am hopeful that he is) and also taking into the account the fact that basically no other GM in the NFL would take our job. Something smells. Everything else I see everyone thowing out their is just their opinions which is fine but those same opinions as I noted earlier ran Shula out of town and since then this has been a "much" worse team for it. Regarless Philbin and Ross have their front office in place we should know soon how much better or worse shape we are in. I just hate the thought of wasting another couple years getting there. Thats been happin since 1998.

I was going to let this point slide but you seem hung up on it.

Know something about all those decision makers your comparing Ireland to? They were fired or quit due to a lack of success. Line Ireland up with a giant list of failures and he might come out at around the top, but it still doesnt change the fact that its a list of failures. The 2012 Detroit Lions were superior to the 2008 Lions but that doesnt mean Jim Schwartz should have kept his job.

To say Jeff Ireland is the best GM we've had since Jimmy Johnson left isnt saying how great of a GM he is, its saying how utterly horrific our hiring's have been. If you really dont like the thought of "wasting another couple years getting there", then why are you defending the guy who consistently had us spinning the tires of mediocrity? After 6 offseasons, it was clear he wasn't suddenly going to be competent. Compare Jeff Ireland to the GM's who produce contenders, because thats what i want our team to be. Comparing him to the worst GM's the in franchise history does nothing but promote mediocrity over atrociousness, which is a slight improvement at best.

 

[phintim]

Spesh easily said like most post against Ireland have been on here. We have had 2 decent owners from the stand point of willing to spend money on big name coaches to rebuild this team with very medocre returns these past 15 years. Obvoiusly you can't just pluck the right GM/coach off of a tree like some many poster like to imply. Seeing Shula winning with medocre results showed me that a great/good coach can certainly make a difference. There certainly are facts that do not work like a bad coach in Sporano we know that because of how bad he performed elswhere, churning the front office does not work as we have seen again and again. Philbin has proven nothing. Facts are no GM worth his reputation would not take the Dolphin job 3 months ago. So those are facts that support Ireland more that the Dolphins position today. Its pretty clear if you are not a fan that the organization has issues that go much further beyond Ireland. But hey keep beating em up, I am just taking off those phin glasses every once awhile.

 

[Cleetus]

How has his career in Seattle worked out? This draft seems like it will come down to Tanny and for me this is his year to step up and show us something.

 

[Spesh]

Spesh easily said like most post against Ireland have been on here. We have had 2 decent owners from the stand point of willing to spend money on big name coaches to rebuild this team with very medocre returns these past 15 years. Obvoiusly you can't just pluck the right GM/coach off of a tree like some many poster like to imply. Seeing Shula winning with medocre results showed me that a great/good coach can certainly make a difference. There certainly are facts that do not work like a bad coach in Sporano we know that because of how bad he performed elswhere, churning the front office does not work as we have seen again and again. Philbin has proven nothing. Facts are no GM worth his reputation would not take the Dolphin job 3 months ago. So those are facts that support Ireland more that the Dolphins position today. Its pretty clear if you are not a fan that the organization has issues that go much further beyond Ireland. But hey keep beating em up, I am just taking off those phin glasses every once awhile.

The chances of finding a mildly competent GM are vastly higher then finding the next Don Shula.

Ireland was here for over half a decade, thats not "churning the front office over and over". He had more job security than most of the league, more than any other decision maker of a perennial loser at least. Know what leads to failure far more often then "constant change"? Never firing bad employees. At least with "constant changes" you might stumble across the next diamond in the rough.

Your right that we couldnt hire a decent GM because we have issues though. Not that it defends Ireland in the least, seeing as how he was part of those issues. Having an incompetent owner doesnt somehow absolve our incompetent GM. If Ross fully supported Ireland and Ross is known to make poor decisions, doesnt that indicate just how bad Ireland was?

And your taking off the "phin glasses" by only comparing Ireland to other phins? Hilarious