Re-Grading 2012 Draft.... ireland getting some love?? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Re-Grading 2012 Draft.... ireland getting some love??

Spesh said:
The chances of finding a mildly competent GM are vastly higher then finding the next Don Shula.

Ireland was here for over half a decade, thats not "churning the front office over and over". He had more job security than most of the league, more than any other decision maker of a perennial loser at least. Know what leads to failure far more often then "constant change"? Never firing bad employees. At least with "constant changes" you might stumble across the next diamond in the rough.

Your right that we couldnt hire a decent GM because we have issues though. Not that it defends Ireland in the least, seeing as how he was part of those issues. Having an incompetent owner doesnt somehow absolve our incompetent GM. If Ross fully supported Ireland and Ross is known to make poor decisions, doesnt that indicate just how bad Ireland was?

And your taking off the "phin glasses" by only comparing Ireland to other phins? Hilarious :lol:
Click to expand...

5 years of no winning was long enough. Hell two years of Philbin has been enough for me esp how he managed to have his team not show up the last two weeks with a playoff spot given to him.

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------
Cleetus said:
How has his career in Seattle worked out? This draft seems like it will come down to Tanny and for me this is his year to step up and show us something.
Click to expand...

well to be fair he was just hired as a consultant for this draft. Ireland will be working again, not because he is good but because people know him.
 
dlockz said:
5 years of no winning was long enough. Hell two years of Philbin has been enough for me esp how he managed to have his team not show up the last two weeks with a playoff spot given to him.

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------



well to be fair he was just hired as a consultant for this draft. Ireland will be working again, not because he is good but because people know him.
Click to expand...

True and I hope he does find work again but I doubt he will get 5 years as a GM anywhere in the NFL any time soon. He was not a good GM, he wasn't the worst but being mediocre does not cut it with this franchise.
 
I think Tannehill is the real deal but that wasn't a very good draft.

Vernon has long-term potential and I'll give him credit for that, but the Martin-Egnew combo was a complete disaster and an inability to draft quality players in the 2nd and 3rd round is pretty much the hallmark of Jeff Ireland's tenure with the Dolphins.
 
If Tannehill explodes in year 3 and Miller runs behind a good Oline this year, things look much better in that draft.

btw, how the F is anyone suppose to know a guy will leave a team without any signs of trouble communicated?

Thats not on Ireland. Thats on political correctness run amok.

But Charles Clay, Carroll, Jones, Clemmons, and Wilson were later round finds. None of them stars but one. Clay is fast becoming a serious weapon.

The thing we may miss is picking gems up after the draft and during season. May not be needed much however should we make this offense top 10.
 
Spesh said:
I was going to let this point slide but you seem hung up on it.

Know something about all those decision makers your comparing Ireland to? They were fired or quit due to a lack of success. Line Ireland up with a giant list of failures and he might come out at around the top, but it still doesnt change the fact that its a list of failures. The 2012 Detroit Lions were superior to the 2008 Lions but that doesnt mean Jim Schwartz should have kept his job.

To say Jeff Ireland is the best GM we've had since Jimmy Johnson left isnt saying how great of a GM he is, its saying how utterly horrific our hiring's have been. If you really dont like the thought of "wasting another couple years getting there", then why are you defending the guy who consistently had us spinning the tires of mediocrity? After 6 offseasons, it was clear he wasn't suddenly going to be competent. Compare Jeff Ireland to the GM's who produce contenders, because thats what i want our team to be. Comparing him to the worst GM's the in franchise history does nothing but promote mediocrity over atrociousness, which is a slight improvement at best.
Click to expand...


only one thing here....Jordan and Tannehill could become great, what then? there are still unanswered questions as far as how well his drafts could be this year and next.

Charles Clay....steal.
 
Not a bad draft at all.

I get it, people are mad at Irleand because he broke their hearts, but he was no Matt Millen. He won't win you a Super Bowl and he won't leave your team in shambles, a guy that leaves you something you can build on. And here we are.
 
So, Bleacher Report is reliable today?
 
finfan54 said:
only one thing here....Jordan and Tannehill could become great, what then? there are still unanswered questions as far as how well his drafts could be this year and next.

Charles Clay....steal.
Click to expand...

Already covered that topic:

Spesh said:
Got a kick out of the high grades for "starters". I mean, yeah, Ireland bat a thousand at drafting starters on a utterly mediocre roster(that he built). But when those players left they had trouble finding jobs and Ireland rarely improved the position they used to occupy.

That draft was classic Ireland. Find a starter(with a top 10 pick no less), find a guy who's a borderline starter(at least for now), and then a whole draft class full of misses. Meanwhile, the Colts walk out with also walk out with a quarterback, and then compliment said quarterback with 2 potentially elite tight ends and a good receiver. The Seahawks walk out with a quarterback, but also nab a stud linebacker and good pass rusher .
But hey, we found a starter or two, we are totally keeping up with every other team in the league. :sidelol:
Click to expand...

1 player does not make a draft(not that he was hitting 1 great player a draft). Other teams find multiple stars per draft. By the way, the entire list of 2 players who "could become great" doesnt even come close to the list of high draft pick misses.

And Charles Clay...:lol:
Yes, and Brian Hartline is just as good as some of the receivers in the league that were taken in the first two rounds, Devone Bess is worth more than a 3rd round pick because his WPA is through the roof, Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller are the next great Dolphins running back duo's, Michael Egnew is our Tony Gonzalez, and Kheeston Randall should have been a first round pick and is going to be a stud nose tackle...etc, etc, etc. Jeff Ireland created the most talented 9 loss team ever. And hey, being the best at mediocrity is still being the best at something, right? Re-Hireland!
 
Spesh said:
I was going to let this point slide but you seem hung up on it.

Know something about all those decision makers your comparing Ireland to? They were fired or quit due to a lack of success. Line Ireland up with a giant list of failures and he might come out at around the top, but it still doesnt change the fact that its a list of failures. The 2012 Detroit Lions were superior to the 2008 Lions but that doesnt mean Jim Schwartz should have kept his job.

To say Jeff Ireland is the best GM we've had since Jimmy Johnson left isnt saying how great of a GM he is, its saying how utterly horrific our hiring's have been. If you really dont like the thought of "wasting another couple years getting there", then why are you defending the guy who consistently had us spinning the tires of mediocrity? After 6 offseasons, it was clear he wasn't suddenly going to be competent. Compare Jeff Ireland to the GM's who produce contenders, because thats what i want our team to be. Comparing him to the worst GM's the in franchise history does nothing but promote mediocrity over atrociousness, which is a slight improvement at best.
Click to expand...

Grand slam.

LD
 
Spesh said:
The chances of finding a mildly competent GM are vastly higher then finding the next Don Shula.

Ireland was here for over half a decade, thats not "churning the front office over and over". He had more job security than most of the league, more than any other decision maker of a perennial loser at least. Know what leads to failure far more often then "constant change"? Never firing bad employees. At least with "constant changes" you might stumble across the next diamond in the rough.

Your right that we couldnt hire a decent GM because we have issues though. Not that it defends Ireland in the least, seeing as how he was part of those issues. Having an incompetent owner doesnt somehow absolve our incompetent GM. If Ross fully supported Ireland and Ross is known to make poor decisions, doesnt that indicate just how bad Ireland was?

And your taking off the "phin glasses" by only comparing Ireland to other phins? Hilarious :lol:
Click to expand...

Stumble is the correct description of what the fans keep hoping for and getting. Blaming Ross for Ireland is really the hilarious statement as Ireland was Parcells guy and Ross really never had his back and the proof is in the hiring of Philbin instead of McCoy whom Ireland wanted. Logically Ireland wanted McCoy because the offensive scheme that he runs was similiar in nature personel wise to what we already had on the team. What the first thing Philbin do start churning the roster getting rid of players like Vonte Davis, Reggie Bush, Dansby, Ellerbee, Bess, Carp and Jake Long. Proven players that "probably" would have gotten those 2 extra wins last year plus more importantly we could have used our draft picks differently drafting the best player available instead of reaching for some player to fill a hole. If Ireland was a real GM he would have been give the opportunity to hire his own coach which he never was. So unless Philbin turns out to be a good coach then it is really hard to judge Ireland work because he had some crappy coaches cooking his groceries. If the entire draft from 2 years ago is still participating in the NFL even on other teams that is not a bad draft. Like I point out again and again there are issues way beyond Jeff Ireland when the rest of the NFL snubs their nose on the GM job your talking about huge issues for the Dolphins. So keep on stumbling around their Spesh and humour me the next couple of years watching this spectacle repeat itself since the fans and media ran Shula out of town hoping for something better.
 
Spesh said:
Already covered that topic:



1 player does not make a draft(not that he was hitting 1 great player a draft). Other teams find multiple stars per draft. By the way, the entire list of 2 players who "could become great" doesnt even come close to the list of high draft pick misses.

And Charles Clay...:lol:
Yes, and Brian Hartline is just as good as some of the receivers in the league that were taken in the first two rounds, Devone Bess is worth more than a 3rd round pick because his WPA is through the roof, Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller are the next great Dolphins running back duo's, Michael Egnew is our Tony Gonzalez, and Kheeston Randall should have been a first round pick and is going to be a stud nose tackle...etc, etc, etc. Jeff Ireland created the most talented 9 loss team ever. And hey, being the best at mediocrity is still being the best at something, right? Re-Hireland!
Click to expand...

You forgot the hashtag.
 
phintim said:
Stumble is the correct description of what the fans keep hoping for and getting. Blaming Ross for Ireland is really the hilarious statement as Ireland was Parcells guy and Ross really never had his back and the proof is in the hiring of Philbin instead of McCoy whom Ireland wanted. Logically Ireland wanted McCoy because the offensive scheme that he runs was similiar in nature personel wise to what we already had on the team. What the first thing Philbin do start churning the roster getting rid of players like Vonte Davis, Reggie Bush, Dansby, Ellerbee, Bess, Carp and Jake Long. Proven players that "probably" would have gotten those 2 extra wins last year plus more importantly we could have used our draft picks differently drafting the best player available instead of reaching for some player to fill a hole. If Ireland was a real GM he would have been give the opportunity to hire his own coach which he never was. So unless Philbin turns out to be a good coach then it is really hard to judge Ireland work because he had some crappy coaches cooking his groceries. If the entire draft from 2 years ago is still participating in the NFL even on other teams that is not a bad draft. Like I point out again and again there are issues way beyond Jeff Ireland when the rest of the NFL snubs their nose on the GM job your talking about huge issues for the Dolphins. So keep on stumbling around their Spesh and humour me the next couple of years watching this spectacle repeat itself since the fans and media ran Shula out of town hoping for something better.
Click to expand...

Stephen Ross handed Ireland 2 contract extensions. If that isnt "having his back" then what is? He sure didnt extend him because we were winning, thats for sure. :lol:

Please provide the link that shows Ireland wanted McCoy to run the offense Ireland wanted. Ireland wanted McCoy because he liked his personality. Because Ireland's opinion carried so much weight with Ross(while Ross simultaneously was plotting to stab him in the back or something?), it was a toss up between Philbin and McCoy. The rumored deciding factor was Philbin was willing to keep Todd Bowles as DC while McCoy wanted to hire his own staff, so Ross went with the guy willing to play ball. Then Bowles left. Because Miami Dolphins.

And now Philbin was GM? Why do you want to keep Ireland when he did nothing at his job? If he wasnt a "real" GM, then why should he hold the title? :sidelol: Fact: Ireland was general manager and signed off on every single move we made. Fact: we didnt win those extra games, we went 7-9 and 8-8. "Woulda coulda shoulda" goes on for every team, all that matters is the results.

Its extremely easy to judge Ireland, check his record and check where his players are. Most are either buried in depth charts to fill out the bottom of rosters or out of the league entirely. If no coach in the entire league can improve the players Jeff Ireland has made investments in, then its on Ireland. End of story.

And i already agreed: we do have problems. Stephen Ross is the main reason why we have problems. He makes poor decisions, like extending Ireland twice and trying to keep him in a demoted role. Also our roster is filled with holes because Ireland was terrible at his job, thats another major problem that scared away potential hires.

And most certainly i'll keep on stumbling around. I have to, because when i do i see you randomly making up points off the top of your head in defense of a unemployed GM that you think sounds good but really isnt. I find people shooting themselves in the foot highly amusing. Keep holding onto something that happened before Clinton was reelected and before Monica Lewinsky became a household name, in the meantime i'll watch first and second year regimes instantly turn their franchises around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom