Report: Dolphins players may have harassed team staffer

[GasPed]

I guess I am defending Incognito, but it is not so much that...I think Jon Martin is a snake and think people like him are just as dangerous as Incognito.

* He never let the team know there were issues with him and other team members
* He stormed out team headquarters and told Incognito "it was not about him"
* He lawyered up and has a had steady morphine drop of information to the media
* He has not let anyone hear the voice mail that its context is everything to the story
* He bantered with Incognito in the same manner as Incognito
* His tactics will undoubtedly ruin the careers and well-being of members of the Dolphins FO and coaching staff...many that had NOTHING to do with this situation
* Claiming PTSD is disgusting and an insult to any veteran or individual that went through a life or death experience
* Clowning around at the Stanford/SC game in obvious good spirits....yet he is collecting a paycheck weekly that many people make in a year

So my issue is not defending Incognito...it is I think Jon Martin is a snake.

You're totally overreaching here. Yes, it's possible he's a manipulative snake, but it's equally possible (I think) that he truly has some demons, felt out of control, felt harassed and helpless to correct it, so he ran out on the team. My narrative fits what's happened just as well (perhaps better) than your narrative - at least it does so without all the speculative assumptions regarding Martin's mom and dad, and his (lack of) manhood. That you (and others) insist on this story (that Martin is a snake/wuss/mama's boy) in the absence of any real facts speaks volumes about our perverse need to rush to judgement and shoot a bad guy, without even understanding the situation.

 

[z926538]

You can make me look like a caveman on this.

He doesn't need to. Keep on trying to defend the indefensible and you will do a fine job all by yourself. And that is irrespective of anyone's opinion of Jonathon Martin.

Richie Incognito is a spoiled juvenile delinquent with severe emotional maturity issues that have been made worse by never having anyone ever stand up and tell him no at any critical point in his life. He is the worse part of everything that is meant by the terms diva and prima donna.

 

[dlockz]

I do not think this is discrimination. How is this discrimination? It might be out of bounds behavior or unwanted jokes. How is this guy being discriminated against?

Anyways, we are not going to agree on this. If you want to make the NFL locker room and field the same as corporate America...go ahead.

The basic rules are the same. In no job is it considered ok to make racist references and such. Not sure why there should be a special rule for the this.

 

[NYinBostonFin]

Two things made continuing the conversation with you pointless. First, you brought up the dock workers strawman. If Incognito had been suspended solely for cursing, that would have been appropriate. But we both know that there's more to the suspension than that. The second thing was the vilification of Martin's parents. Not you nor anyone else on this board has any idea what role his parents have or haven't played in this, yet person after person vilifies them as if they have facts that warrant the stream of offensive commentary polluting the conversation.

I have no idea how this is going to play out. Neither you, I, nor anyone here has heard all the evidence. Martin has no history of similar behaviors so I'm going to reserve judgement on his actions until we see what the NFL report says. Incognito, on the other hand, came to us with a history that made this situation, or at least something like it, none too surprising. Prior to this incident, I didn't want either player on the team. I didn't want Martin because he's not a very talented tackle. I said so during training camp; I say so now. He was yet another bad draft pick by Ireland. I don't want Incognito on this team because he's a schmuck who brings trouble wherever he goes. He was bounced out of Nebraska, he was bounced out of Oregon in record time, he made himself unwelcome in Buffalo, and he made himself unwelcome in St. Louis. That's enough of a track record for me to know that I didn't want him anywhere near the Dolphins. And whether he's guilty of something or not in this latest case, I still don't want him on the Dolphins. I'd prefer he take his circus act elsewhere. Bottom line is this: I didn't want either guy on my team before this crap; I don't want either on the team after this crap.

And with that, we can end this conversation.

You contradict yourself...we don't know all the facts....but you KNOW it wasn't just about the voicemail. Really? Where did you hear that? I don't know for sure and neither do you. Philbin is a family man that hates any kind of nonsense like this, he moved BM bc he didn't like his personality, and probably did the same when he saw how ocho was turning. He may have pulled the trigger early on Incog....but you KNOW he didn't? I guess Incog doesn't have a case...oh wait....


Nobody knows...but everyone has a opinion...welcome to a message board. I decided to wait until facts came out before vilifying...and can use fact about the case, and Martin's parents to draw a conclusion. I'm sorry you don't understand comparisons, you continue to bring it up like I mentioned Incog was a dock worker. It was above your head,...I get it. Here is something new for you though....Incog's past might be brought up for this case, but it will not be the deciding factor when the ruling goes down. He needs more evidence than, Incog's a shmuck.....otherwise we'd all have our hand out.

Don't call me strawman....waaaaah....Funny how you turn to name calling bully. So hypocritical when a varying opinion turns your way. Incogs a shmuck.. your opinion is wrong but mine is right, even though we don't know all the facts....he's not a dock worker....lol

We know a lot more info now, including how Martin's mom basically made a lot of money dealing and writing about cases just like this.....so yea, if I feel she is working the system to get her son a paycheck bc he was leaving the team anyway,its a valid opinion, not a huge jump like you make it out to be. Get over yourself and this holier than thou attitude as you butcher anyone that doesn't agree with you.

 

[dlockz]

I will be glad when this all gets settled. I dont want the drug addicted frat boy InCognito or the mentally shaken Martin back.

 

[JTC111]

Don't call me strawman....waaaaah....Funny how you turn to name calling bully.

I didn't call you a strawman. I'd explain what the term means to you, but I'd prefer you make an effort to educate yourself on your own. After that, you can come back here and thank me for making you just a little bit smarter than when you woke up this morning.

---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

I will be glad when this all gets settled. I dont want the drug addicted frat boy InCognito or the mentally shaken Martin back.

...or Ireland, or Philbin and the crap staff he assembled.

 

[spiketex]

Hayden - Why do you dismiss the possibility that real and totally inappropriate harassment may have taken place? It is obvious to me that Jonathan Martin is a smart guy and he probably had a helluva lot of material presented to support this for the Wells meeting to go for over 7 hours. This is not a few bigoted voicemail messages and tough love emails and texts from Richie. There is probably a vast amount of substantive evidence and probably includes real physical stuff.
Watch any of Martin's pre-incident videos. He answers all questions well. I expect that he had very high credibility and was extremely well prepared by Cornwell. By repeatedly calling him a snake you are dismissing the possibility that there could be substance. Ultimately it will come out, but be prepared for the possibility that Martin comes out of this investigation as someone who did face inappropriate bullying/physical abuse from a number of people including our trainee sociopath with great tattoos.

 

[NCFINFAN13]

Well, after hearing all these "inappropriate work environment" arguments, I've come to the conclusion that the NFL should be disbanded. If ugly words and harsh terminology can not be tolerated, neither should grown men assaulting and taking from each other with out consent.

Fricken wussies man.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Hayden - Why do you dismiss the possibility that real and totally inappropriate harassment may have taken place? It is obvious to me that Jonathan Martin is a smart guy and he probably had a helluva lot of material presented to support this for the Wells meeting to go for over 7 hours. This is not a few bigoted voicemail messages and tough love emails and texts from Richie. There is probably a vast amount of substantive evidence and probably includes real physical stuff.
Watch any of Martin's pre-incident videos. He answers all questions well. I expect that he had very high credibility and was extremely well prepared by Cornwell. By repeatedly calling him a snake you are dismissing the possibility that there could be substance. Ultimately it will come out, but be prepared for the possibility that Martin comes out of this investigation as someone who did face inappropriate bullying/physical abuse from a number of people including our trainee sociopath with great tattoos.

I don't, but I hate how Martin went about this. Lawyering up and walking out of your job and team is BS.

I explained my issues above and I will stand on that. You can agree or disagree.

Incognito will be released. Martin will be paid and released at some point. The FO will be blown out. It is 50/50 if Joe comes back. This team is not coached well, but it is sad if Joe loses his gig because of Jon Martin.

 

[Tyrion]

Then you are creating a society in which the person being bullied has no responsibility in stopping the harassment.

Anyone that feels "offended" can go to authority and cry foul. Maybe the comments were awful and warrant punishment, but there needs to protocol on stuff like this before it gets out of control.

Nowadays one cant joke around or anything because a member of the trendy pc brigade MAY get offended. Where does it end? At the point where all words and thoughts are state property?

 

[butta247]

I hope offensive linemen start suing opposing defensive linemen for verbal harassment/intimidation while on the job.

 

[flynryan15]

Actually, we kinda do.

Just like I think the people defending Richie to the death here are ridiculous, I think that by lionizing Jon Martin you are being equally ridiculous.

I am not lionizing Martin! I am saying you me or anyone else on this board have no clue how Martin actually handled the situation. We have a bunch on reports that each one contradicts the other. My issue with Martin it is what his departure uncovered, a obviously toxic environment that destroys teams. John Martin didn't destroy the Dolphins season! The failure in the front office did, those who turned a blind eye to Incognito and others while they acted like idiots on the field, in the locker room and in the community. The total lack of leadership from the top of the organization that allowed Richie Incognito to be put on the leadership council when it is obvious he is about as divisive of a individual that you can have on a team.

I get it you have made up your mind that Martin had this all planned and is in a money grab. That's your view and if the investigation shows that then so be it, but I just don't see it. I think when it is all said and done we are going to learn of a incident that is beyond disgusting that finally made Martin walk.

It's just ridiculous the **** being tossed around this board especially referencing the staff member. Guy is a average Joe trying to earn a living and has to have his race, religion and wife ripped to shreds by Incognito and others? WTF! How do people even remotely defend this? Yeah I believe it is true because Richie Incognito is a pig! Not a meathead, but a ****ing PIG! And if the reports are that management and organization knew about this and didn't stop it are true then **** them all fire every last one of them! A real leader would have stopped that **** day one! A real leader is the first person to defend those who can't defend themselves and it is obvious there isn't one real leader on the Miami Dolphins and that is why this team folds not John Martin!

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I get it you have made up your mind that Martin had this all planned and is in a money grab. That's your view and if the investigation shows that then so be it, but I just don't see it. I think when it is all said and done we are going to learn of a incident that is beyond disgusting that finally made Martin walk.

Hold on, you're mixing me up with some other people. I don't think this was premeditated. The only real evidence of premeditation would be that he saved the voice mail or whatever, and I find that silly. First of all, plenty of people save old voicemail and texts on their phones. Second, why on earth would he pass the voice mail around and joke about it if he was really planning this out in advance. If you look at that and think it was premeditated, he's either playing 6d chess and he's planning 18 moves ahead, or he's a ****ing idiot. I'm going with none of the above on that multiple choice question, personally.

I think he snapped, but I don't think it was all about 'bullying.' I think a lot of it was a combination of an introverted, socially awkward guy under extreme work-related pressure in a working environment with people he couldn't get along with and really had nothing in common with at all beyond sharing a profession. And two of those guys happened to be a (insufficiently?) medicated borderline nutjob and grade-A toolbox, and the other is Aaron Hernandez' gun-running pal. If you look at it that way, hindsight says it was bound to happen.

As for the incident that was beyond disgusting that caused him to snap? Personally, I think it was being demoted. Job pressure. I think it became about money after he walked out and the team threatened to put him on NFI. I blame Jeff Ireland and Dawn Aponte as much as anyone for this situation, even if it seems weird at first glance to do so. They botched things badly and underestimated Martin. When I say that money is a big factor involved here, I'm not saying Martin is on some planned in advance heist to rip off the Dolphins in the NFL, but that I think his group is trying to protect his signing bonus and game checks.


I think we need to separate "Bullygate," "Golfgate," and "Staffergate" here. I'd love to jump on the train to pillory Richie for the latter two incidents, but that doesn't change my opinion on Bullygate. It still doesn't pass the smell test to me.



Also what's really depressing in all of this is that Mike Pouncey is gonna be the next guy out the door, and he's like the only good player on our freaking offensive line. I don't even have words for the way Jeff Ireland finds a new personnel group to completely botch every single season.

 

[flynryan15]

It's all fruit from the poisonous tree partner Bullygate, Golfgate, and Staffergate the organization allowed that mentality to exist and it this is the outcome. The ****ty thing is it's not like they were covering up for great players winning championships. Nope we are covering up for the village pig and his gun running pal!

As afar as Pouncey is concerned see ya! Guy is as overrated as it gets everyone trying to justify our ****ty GM drafting a center at 16! If I had the patience I would look up a debate i had with Nublar and his minions when I called Pouncey a thug. Well hindsight and well I was right. Sunday afternoon proves this team can do just fine with out Poincey and as you yourself point out his snap tipping head bob.

As far as Ireland and Apante we are on the same page! The wannabe tough guy and wicked witch most certainly strong armed this into the cancer it is now. Unlike most here I lived in Cleveland when that venomous **** was trying to power play her way to GM of the Browns and almost pushed Cribbs out the door leading to her firing as Holgrems first move. I have no doubt those 2 idiots are the main reason this has become the monkey **** fight at the zoo well for persons not name Dick On The Down Low or Pouncey. But like I said before the fact that the Leprechaun and Witch are allowed to run unchecked is lack of leadership! It starts at the owner he is a bad leader so he hires bad leaders.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

As afar as Pouncey is concerned see ya! Guy is as overrated as it gets everyone trying to justify our ****ty GM drafting a center at 16! If I had the patience I would look up a debate i had with Nublar and his minions when I called Pouncey a thug. Well hindsight and well I was right. Sunday afternoon proves this team can do just fine with out Poincey and as you yourself point out his snap tipping head bob.

I think the good play of our line had a lot more to do with San Diego having a cruddy defensive front than anything else. I would love to be wrong, but I think our OL is going to get wrecked this weekend by a much better Panthers front 7.

But that's neither here nor there. Pouncey, let's see what happens, but at this point nothing will surprise me. When it rains, it pours.