Ricky Thought Dave Was a Joke? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Ricky Thought Dave Was a Joke?

inFINSible said:
Why does he think Dave is a joke?

It could be any reason in the world and it may have NOTHING to do with football.

I'd like to hear some clarification from ejs, who is a member here and has clarified things before.

What I don't want hear is speculation from someone who clearly hates Wannstedt.
Maybe I can help here. You see, it all starts with coaching. Wannstedt is charged with being a coach above all else, and at that he is not really incompetent, as many of his detractors suggest, he is just not great. He wins more than he loses, but he wins the battles only to lose the war. This comes from someone without an agenda. I hate the fins, but I don't hate Wannstedt, he just amuses me. I think Dave is a heck of a nice guy. That is unfortunately part of the problem. He might be too nice to make some of the hard calls required of a pro football coach. Wannstedt wants to be liked more than he needs to be respected. He wants to be their friend, and while that is admirable, it doesn't always make for a good coaching relationship. Effective coaches don't care if their players like them -- they might care but they don't let it influence how they do their job. Parcells is not always nice, frequently he is crass and insulting, but his players like him anyway because they respect him. The fins walk all over Wannstedt.
 
ejs said:
I was just surfing this site -- as I occasionally do -- and I noticed that a poster was seeking further explanation.

I'm running off to cover something right now -- I'm not in South Florida and it's not Dolphins-related -- and won't return until tonight, but I wanted to provide some explanation.

People should be accountable, after all....

In short, though: i talked to several players yesterday, on background. It's easier to get honest feelings that way (though I credit Joe Schad for getting Seth McKinney on the record; McKinney's frustration isn't unique among players, I'll say that)..... the person who said the joke thing doesn't have anything against Dave, necessarily, nor is he the only one who told me something like that. I could have used any number of things I was told yesterday... He was just giving his perspective, from his own dealings with Ricky (who wasn't really close to anyone on the team). It wasn't even a large part of our conversation. Let's put it this way: no one thinks Dave can talk Ricky out of this. And I don't really blame Dave for that...... and for that reason, in retrospect, I probably should have been a little more careful, considering it was third-hand and inflammatory. Albeit a third-hand comment I had heard many times before....

Ethan

Thanks for taking the time Ethan.

I'm still a little confused by your last line though, you've heard that Dave is a joke many times or you've heard that that was Ricky's opinion of Dave?

If it's the latter, PatriotGOD, Ricky's opinion, of a man soley dedicated to football, is the joke.
 
I'm back, so I'll clear it up.... (I was just at U.S. Olympic basketball practice; for you Heat fans, Dwyane Wade promised he wouldn't retire and run off to Asia... "For at least 4 years," he said.)....

Here's the thing. By all accounts, Ricky likes Dave, and they had a pretty good relationship, man to man. (And I've been told by a few people Ricky really was disappointed that Dave was upset at him, after a supportive first conversation, on Friday. Not that I blame Dave for that. My visceral reaction would be angry, too)....

Most people like Dave. In all honesty, I do. Most of the reporters do. The goal (and the trick) is to not let that affect what I write, one way or the other.

But a lot of players, many still here and many gone, haven't been sold on his coaching methods.... Not every player, mind you. And in every locker room, there are players who, for personal reasons, don't love everything the coach does. So I always try not to make too much of what just one guy says, or what just one or even several guys say about what another guy thinks. I try to talk to as many players as possible. And I try to hear the other side -- in this case, Dave's perspective. Often, he has to sugarcoat things publicly. He has no choice. And so he did yesterday........

So why did I use this quote? I thought it was relevant, because Ricky has made his feeling known enough that several people, over the past two years, have told me how Ricky feels... So why didn't Ricky (or a number of other players) say that on the record? You can probably figure that out for yourself. Respect. Protocol. Not wanting to create a stir. Self-preservation. Kindness. Probably all of the above.

As for taking it out on the player I quoted, there's no need to do that. Any number of other guys has told, or would tell, me the same thing. (I actually had more inflammatory quotes I didn't use, in part because of the frustration of the day).... It was just his observation. These guys spend a lot of time together. They have a good idea how others feel about the coaches. So I used the quote....

This is a very complicated story. People close to Ricky are trying to explain his side, and sometimes it makes some sense to me. "Did you want the guy playing if his heart wasn't in it?" "Don't you think there are other things than football, and didn't he have a right to find one that made him happy?" "If the Dolphins really wanted him, shouldn't they have paid him like it, and if they cared about him, shouldn't they have been less hard on his body?" Etc....... Like I said, some of that makes sense to me. I tend to think we get so lost covering and watching in sports, we lose perspective sometimes. (The Shaq thing down here being the latest example. He has the key to the city. And he doesn't even have keys to a house yet.)....

But I ultimately came down on the other side of this issue, because I kept coming back to the absence of accountability and responsibility. In my job, I have to be accountable and responsible to others. I can't just blow off a deadline. Nor would I ever get another job if I decided, a week before training camp, that it was time to take a four-month vacation and dump all my work on others. Even if I've accumulated that much off time. (Which I probably have).

Mostly, I kept coming back to the timing. If Ricky had done this in February, March, or even April, people would have been disappointed. But I don't think they would have had any reason to angry....

I just don't think this is the thing you do, when your action affects so many other people, especially those (teammates, Dave, etc.) who stuck their necks out for him.... I think, once it got so late in the game, he had committed to a cause, of sorts, even if it wasn't one that inspired him anymore.... He should have given more notice, or he should have stuck it out.

That's just how I see it.

Anyway, back to work.

Ethan
 
BlueFin said:
"Williams should have cared about them even if he didn't care about the coach, Dave Wannstedt, who gave him his fresh start and then coddled and defended him. (As one Dolphins starter put it Sunday: "Ain't nothing Wayne can do now to talk Ricky out of it. There ain't nothing, especially, that Dave can say. He thinks Dave is a joke anyway.")." Ethan Skolnick

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-skolnick26jul26,0,5907885.column?coll=sfla-dolphins-front

This should be an eye opener to all the Wannstedt apologists who argue that the coach is well respected on the team, what they tell publicly while their job is on the line may be completely diffferent from what they really feel.

Yes I know, Ricky is now a villian and who cares what he thinks?....right? Well until last friday he was the star of this team and if he privately thought Wannstedt a joke its certainly should concern everyone about just how this team really feels about this coach.

Why should this be a wake up call to anyone? I can tell you've played football before. Goodness knows all players just LOVE their HC!

UGH!

Oliver...
 
Ethan-I imagine that the locker room is a cross section of society and of course there are going to be guys who disagree with the HC whether it be personality issues or coaching methods. Much the same as it is here on Finheaven with all the different views on Dave's ways.

I can accept that Ricky didn't want to take the pounding that he was most likely going to take behind this new o-lne and with this offensive philosophy but, is there anything more specific that you know of, in relation to any displeasure with Dave's coaching methods? From Ricky or anyone else?
 
Ethan,

But you're right in the side of the story that you decided to present. It's the side that trumps the "Search for bettering his life" that Ricky took. There comes a time in in this life where you have to realize that your decisions affect other people and that you are not completely independent from everyone and everything else. Ricky doesn not understand that concept. I used to relate to him in alot of ways, in a sense that I've felt different for the longest time (also battled thru severe anxieties), but the man has developed a massive personality disorder in the form of "A quest for truth" as he so blindly masks it.

It is everyone's right to make choices, this much we know. Yet, if everyone walked around completely disregarding everyone else on this planet and making only self-serving decisions - we'd have anarchy. That's what pisses me off about Ricky because he looks at us negatively because we don't support such an ill-timed decision. HE CAN'T SEE IT! That's what sticks out most to me. I'm also massively offended by his comments about who he feels his real fans are. In his journal on his website he cites little eight year old girls wearing his jersey as his real fans. He and his life partner Dan Le Betard make statements accusing us as nothing more than fad-backers. Give me a break. We supported Ricky when he was brought over here. We all helped to bring a new light to social anxiety disorder. We embraced him, didn't treat him like the swamp thing (I should say "pot thing") he's really turning out to be.

When Ricky made that chickensh*t phone call to Dave via Hawaii, his true colors were shining brightly. He's so caught up in this "uniqueness" that he's made his life out to be an operation competely independent of anyone and anything else in this lifetime.
 
enigmatics, I can't argue with what you're saying. that's why i wrote at the end of my column, about how fans really did embrace his entire persona, not just the way he ran... He disregarded that too easily.... i'll never understand this "I want to be loved for me" thing... isn't it enough that you're loved for something, by so many? if they get to know you, and like what they see and hear, all the better.

inFinsible, the two biggest complaints about Dave are No. 1, his tendency to get conservative and not trust the players to perform; and his motivational attempts that come off as trying much too hard (most players see through that stuff). Third would be all the offseason workouts.... But when push comes to shove, a lot of players were OK with Dave coming back, because they like him personally and they didn't want the alternative (Tom Coughlin). Ultimately, players (like most people) look out for themselves first...

Ricky's situation is just a very, very extreme case.

OK, now I really got to work. Later.....
 
:lol: Sorry....No more questions...Thanks again, for your time.
 
Ethan, thanks for responding to my thread. The purpose was to raise the question and promote discussion regarding just how much of this team really believes in Wannstedt's system and methods. Based on your responses I think its clear there is a certain percentage that have lost faith in him to some degree, or at least dislike some very important aspects of how he handles his job.

I do believe theres a difference between liking a coach and believing in him as a coach, my personal opinion is that many Vets on this team that have lived thru the last four years don't truly buy into his system.
 
inFINSible said:
Why does he think Dave is a joke?

It could be any reason in the world and it may have NOTHING to do with football.

I'd like to hear some clarification from ejs, who is a member here and has clarified things before.

What I don't want hear is speculation from someone who clearly hates Wannstedt.
Hmmm......seems Ethan pretty much backed up my post.:D
 
Tough luck if he thought the coach was a joke. What about his teammates, the guys that were also counting on him? Are they jokes too? Ricky dropped the ball bigtime. Not because he's decided to walk away from football but because how he did it. Calling Wannstedt on the phone? Not being man enough to face the music face to face with the coaches and his teammates. He's a coward IMO.
 
Ricky also thought that NFL drug tests were a joke. To me, that just shows that he has problems with authority. Either way, I don't see this as a knock on Dave, it more shows that Ricky had problems.
 
Sirspud said:
Ricky also thought that NFL drug tests were a joke. To me, that just shows that he has problems with authority. Either way, I don't see this as a knock on Dave, it more shows that Ricky had problems.

Yeah, but you've got people like Blue who are baffling themselves trying to figure out the chicken or the egg theory.
 
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