Ronnie Deal Could Pick Up Pace Very Soon

[hehateme]

Actually you're comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing a national average pay increase which includes every profession, but we're talking about specialists here and the pay increase over the past two years for the top 10 picks has been 10-12%. Still, what SF gave Smith was way above the norm. I still see Edwards signing a deal that is 19 million guaranteed. I'm thinking R.Brown and the Fins are going to settle on a little over 20 million guaranteed.

And you hit on my point exactly. France is trying to get Brown's deal based on what Smith signed for and you just said yourself that average increase for NFL picks is 10-12% which is slightly correct and yet SF gave Smith a 17% increase. Why should Miami pay for SF's stupidity? Especially when Smith is a questionable top pick and widely not considered a sure thing?

My point about bringing up the national average was clearly to point out it's hard for the average fan to understand where Frances stance is coming from when they just got a raise from 35K to 37K a year when Ronnie will be making 375k a week this year if he signs Miami's offer now and that's not including his annual salary. I realize all agents arguments here in that players make the franchise money but there is no way Miami is going to make profits in the range of 19.5 mill this year because they have Ronnie Brown on the team. I am a business owner and it simply disgusts me what these guys make and than they have the nerve to ***** about it because despite popular opinion we would all still cheer for Miami if they had a starting running back that made 200k a year. The game is the game and one individual player doesn't change that despite agents opinions.


Also factor in here Brown himself hasn't been considered a sure thing number 2 based on past drafts and I don't see where France is getting off here other than to point at Miami what Smith signed for which again was clearly too high.

 

[VanDolPhan]

Disagree. At 19.5 mil in guaranteed money Miami is offering an 8.7% increase over what Gallery got last year. The average national average of a pay increase in today's economy is 2.7%. Miami has a point here in that SF way overpaid Smith to the tune of a 17% pay increase in guaranteed money from last years number 1 pick.

After crunching numbers on what sort of guaranteed money the last 4 years top 5 draft picks have signed for Miami's offer isn't unfair at all. At 19.5 mill in guaranteed cash, Brown needs to get into camp and stop listening to an agent who's clearly trying to make more money for himself.

Your forgetting that his incentives and escalators aren't near Gallery's though which makes the deal about even.

 

[djfresh47]

It's not different. They both knew what was on the table and still signed clearly knowing what they signed was unfair. Andy Reid went so far as to stop TO right before he inked he's deal and stated to him TO once you sign this I don't want to revisit this a year later and TO still inked. TO is an *** bottom line. If he didn't like his deal he shouldn't have signed.

Ricky was screwed from the start because the choice of hiring Master P was clearly a sign he was smoking too much. Never has an agent been taken more advantage of than Master P was in Ricky's original deal in NO.

So if TO outplays his contract, which he most certainly did, he shouldn't get a raise? I realize the players association even told TO not to sign the deal. If TO underplays his contract he's cut. Even though you believe that SF overpaid for Smith, it still sets a mark for Ronnie Brown. NFL contracts aren't guranteed, so when someone posts that he "signed a contract, now he has to live with it," it's laughable to me, because the teams don't have to follow that at all. Most of the contracts signed by players are never lived out, I think I heard Ty Law signed a 7 year deal, I'd be shocked without even looking at the numbers if he's there for 4 years. It's hypocritical, IMO to state that players need to go by the contract they signed, when the teams most certianly don't follow them most of the time.

 

[djfresh47]

And you hit on my point exactly. France is trying to get Brown's deal based on what Smith signed for and you just said yourself that average increase for NFL picks is 10-12% which is slightly correct and yet SF gave Smith a 17% increase. Why should Miami pay for SF's stupidity? Especially when Smith is a questionable top pick and widely not considered a sure thing?

My point about bringing up the national average was clearly to point out it's hard for the average fan to understand where Frances stance is coming from when they just got a raise from 35K to 37K a year when Ronnie will be making 375k a week this year if he signs Miami's offer now and that's not including his annual salary. I realize all agents arguments here in that players make the franchise money but there is no way Miami is going to make profits in the range of 19.5 mill this year because they have Ronnie Brown on the team. I am a business owner and it simply disgusts me what these guys make and than they have the nerve to ***** about it because despite popular opinion we would all still cheer for Miami if they had a starting running back that made 200k a year. The game is the game and one individual player doesn't change that despite agents opinions.


Also factor in here Brown himself hasn't been considered a sure thing number 2 based on past drafts and I don't see where France is getting off here other than to point at Miami what Smith signed for which again was clearly too high.

Smith set the bar, and Brown should get paid in line with that. It can disgust you what they make, you're probably not an NFL player, who compared to other jobs, has a relatively short career period. The NFL and teams are making money, this isn't the NHL, contracts aren't guranteed which is why some ridiculous contracts are signed, with the reality that most of the money will never be seen by the player.

 

[hehateme]

So if TO outplays his contract, which he most certainly did, he shouldn't get a raise? I realize the players association even told TO not to sign the deal. If TO underplays his contract he's cut. Even though you believe that SF overpaid for Smith, it still sets a mark for Ronnie Brown. NFL contracts aren't guranteed, so when someone posts that he "signed a contract, now he has to live with it," it's laughable to me, because the teams don't have to follow that at all. Most of the contracts signed by players are never lived out, I think I heard Ty Law signed a 7 year deal, I'd be shocked without even looking at the numbers if he's there for 4 years. It's hypocritical, IMO to state that players need to go by the contract they signed, when the teams most certianly don't follow them most of the time.

Not saying TO has to honor the length of the deal but he really doesn't have the right to ***** about it until after this season, not before. We all know he hired Rosenhaus to avoid going to that length and get restructured now but don't you think Philly offered him that deal knowing it fit their cap the first 2 years? That's why if TO wasn't happy he shouldn't have signed or he should have signed a 2 year deal.

Also keep in mind here Philly gave him that contract based on if he acted like an *** they could get out of it easier which will clearly happen. TO won't be an Eagle next year. They release him now and take a huge cap hit. They release him after this year and the hit is minimal!! TO has no leverage here and he knows it. The sad thing is next year you really think any team is going to sign him long term to a huge deal?

 

[hehateme]

Smith set the bar, and Brown should get paid in line with that. It can disgust you what they make, you're probably not an NFL player, who compared to other jobs, has a relatively short career period. The NFL and teams are making money, this isn't the NHL, contracts aren't guranteed which is why some ridiculous contracts are signed, with the reality that most of the money will never be seen by the player.

Smith didn't set the bar, SF did. Based on that Miami should not fall in line and I completely agree with Miami here. No I'm not an NFL player but NFL teams don't make as much money as you think. Huizenga is lucky is he nets 1-2 mill a year of owning the team and that's after the rewards of the richest TV contract in all of pro sports split amongst 32 teams.

The allure of buying an NFL franchise today for the few that can afford it is escalating team prices which results in if you can keep the team afloat for awhile and not lose any money your guaranteed to make a huge profit on the resale. Trust me Huizenga isn't getting rich owning the Dolphins and he doesn't really seem to care if he loses a little. Most ignorant Miami fans boo him when they don't realize he could easily sell the team and make a huge profit and run but risk the new owner moving the Dolphins out of Florida to a much more profitable market where the new owner could sell PSL's at around $5,000 a seat and average ticket prices would reach $150 a seat which they are in towns such as Charlotte,Nashville and Houston. The fans in Miami have no idea how easy they have it to afford to go to the games compared to other NFL cities.

All that said, I have an opinion and believe Miami should holf firm here. Maybe go to 20 or 20.5 mill but no way should they give this kid 23 mill just because SF was stupid.

 

[Rrodr038]

Huizenga is lucky is he nets 1-2 mill a year of owning the team and that's after the rewards of the richest TV contract in all of pro sports split amongst 32 teams.

WHA?!?!? I would really like to know what you base that statement on. I would be absolutely shocked if thats the case considering the vet minimum is a little over 500K. You're saying that the OWNER of a team in the most popular sport in the country, with profit sharing, only nets 2-4 times more than the vet minimum salary? I highly doubt it.

In regards to the rest of the thread, as a business owner, you should now that the NFL franchises, as businesses, are getting off easy in the amount they pay labor, in comparison to other sports. Consider the salaries that the three other major sports pay out (all guaranteed) and you will see the disparity. In the case of TO, lets say he plays even better this season than last season but re-injures his ankle in the playoffs or superbowl and will likely miss time a lot of time in 06. You think the Eagles would be hesitant to cut Owens knowing they have to pony up for a large roster bonus at the beginning of the 06 season? I sure as hell don't.

As far as RB is concerned, you have to remember that unlike other professions, football is one where you might only get one large payday, even if you are the second pick in the draft. As a top pick, you got to make that one known payday as large as possible, because it might be the only one you get. Second, regarless if SF overpaid or not, the contracts of top NFL picks is largely based on what the two around you got (Alex Smith, Braylon Edwards) and/ or a propotionate raise over the same pick of last years draft (Robert Gallery) and really not much else. Right now, if Braylon's contract is where many think it will be, the 19.5 mil in guarateed money the Phins have offered is a low-ball offer. Simple as that.

 

[NJFinFury2004]

Disagree. At 19.5 mil in guaranteed money Miami is offering an 8.7% increase over what Gallery got last year. The average national average of a pay increase in today's economy is 2.7%. Miami has a point here in that SF way overpaid Smith to the tune of a 17% pay increase in guaranteed money from last years number 1 pick.

After crunching numbers on what sort of guaranteed money the last 4 years top 5 draft picks have signed for Miami's offer isn't unfair at all. At 19.5 mill in guaranteed cash, Brown needs to get into camp and stop listening to an agent who's clearly trying to make more money for himself.

IM Impressed.. 8 pct is more than enough!

 

[Merman]

Disagree. At 19.5 mil in guaranteed money Miami is offering an 8.7% increase over what Gallery got last year. The average national average of a pay increase in today's economy is 2.7%. Miami has a point here in that SF way overpaid Smith to the tune of a 17% pay increase in guaranteed money from last years number 1 pick.

After crunching numbers on what sort of guaranteed money the last 4 years top 5 draft picks have signed for Miami's offer isn't unfair at all. At 19.5 mill in guaranteed cash, Brown needs to get into camp and stop listening to an agent who's clearly trying to make more money for himself.

Your numbers seem a bit off considering the Miami Herald reported Gallery's guaranteed money was $18.3 million and Smith's increase of guaranteed money is suppose to be 20%.

Since you cruched the numbers for the last few years I would be interested if you gave some info at how how you arrived at that percentage is fair when this year's increase is 20% for the #1 pick alone. Besides historic increases are forgotten when dealing with the current year's contract.

Right now Smith's guaranteed money was a 20% increase and Cadillac Williams' deal is a 15% increase, which seems to be the market's top and bottom. You want the #2 pick to take an 8.7% increase and think that's fair???

Posted on Tue, Aug. 02, 2005
DOLPHINS NOTEBOOK
Bonus slows Brown deal
BY JASON COLE

The Dolphins and the agent for running back Ronnie Brown, the No. 2 overall pick in the draft, remain about $3 million apart on the amount of guaranteed money they are willing to pay for his contract, according to two sources within the NFL Players Association.

Agent Todd France declined to discuss the talks and wouldn't comment on information that indicated the Dolphins are offering roughly $19 million in guarantees to Brown. Based on the $24 million in guarantees given to No. 1 overall pick Alex Smith by San Francisco, Brown is expecting about $22 million in guarantees.

Smith's deal represents a 20 percent increase in guaranteed money for the No. 1 overall pick from last year, when quarterback Eli Manning went No. 1 overall and signed with the New York Giants. Last year's No. 2 overall, offensive tackle Robert Gallery, received $18.3 million, making a 20 percent increase worth just less than $22 million for Brown.

Further supporting Brown's demand is the deal signed by former Auburn teammate Cadillac Williams with Tampa Bay at No. 5 overall. The deal includes $13.6 million in guaranteed money and another $1.5 million in virtual guarantee if Williams plays 35 percent or more as a rookie or 45 percent or more in any of the subsequent seasons.

In short, the $15.1 million total represents a 15 percent increase in guaranteed and/or easily attainable money for the No. 5 pick. The Dolphins are offering about a 5 percent increase, the NFLPA source said.

 

[Merman]

Smith didn't set the bar, SF did. Based on that Miami should not fall in line and I completely agree with Miami here. No I'm not an NFL player but NFL teams don't make as much money as you think. Huizenga is lucky is he nets 1-2 mill a year of owning the team and that's after the rewards of the richest TV contract in all of pro sports split amongst 32 teams.

The allure of buying an NFL franchise today for the few that can afford it is escalating team prices which results in if you can keep the team afloat for awhile and not lose any money your guaranteed to make a huge profit on the resale. Trust me Huizenga isn't getting rich owning the Dolphins and he doesn't really seem to care if he loses a little.

$1 or $2 million of Net Income, which is after all expenses such as interest, depreciation, executive salaries and taxes is pretty good though I think they make more. Most business' try to produce a Net Loss to not pay taxes.

There is no problem at all keeping an NFL franchise afloat. The fight is to make more money with a good stadium deal. The NFL is the proverbial cash cow, which is making the owners a profit with astronomical Return On Investment.

http://www.forbes.com/2003/01/23/cz_kb_0123superbiz.html

http://www.forbes.com/2004/01/29/cz_kb_0129teamvalue.html

 

[shortywallace1]

i think it would be best for miami to sign R.Brown before the browns sign Edwards because if he gets more than 22 mil then browns gonna want more

 

[Dolphin North]

I know this is not Dolphins news, but it does affect the Fins indirectly.

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/sports/index.ssf?/base/sports-9/1123640503213680.xml&storylist=



Having Braylon sign will finally give France that cushion he has wanted. I honestly believe once Edwards dots the i's and crosses the t's, the Ronnie deal will go into the speed of light mode. Lets keep our fingers crossed. ray:

True. This gives bookends for reference in Ronnie's deal. The guy ahead of him (Smith) and now Edwards being signed makes it easier to slot Ronnie. Let's hope hard! Thanks for the good news Nub! I needed that after being away in isolation for 4 days, and coming back to see he is still not signed.

 

[xiidaen]

I wonder if the lack of a significant running game against the Bears (although it's only the first preseason game) has made the Brown camp more likely to stick to their guns here. I'm sure if Williams was ripping off 20 yard runs, Miami would using that as a negotiating point, too.

 

[PhinSoldia]

And you hit on my point exactly. France is trying to get Brown's deal based on what Smith signed for and you just said yourself that average increase for NFL picks is 10-12% which is slightly correct and yet SF gave Smith a 17% increase..

i disagree slightly....yes SF was very stupid to pay Smith money i would have only Shared with Leinhart...Smith wasnt a number one but he played SF very badly and now France wants to play Miami based on Smiths numbers and Saban isnt letting them....ok now with that said France is a new agent or new to the high market game....and right now he will need Braylon's money figures to get a deal done because "he is feeling his way into the agent game"( we all stated this before, thats where the disagreement comes. he isnt just waiting for Smith's deal to get done because that was done last almost 2 weeks ago...Right now he is on "plan B" he knows right now that he wont play miami for 22 mill so easily so he is sitting and waiting till Edwards and Benson sign on the dotted line... so he dont make a fool out of himself...but he already has...he's an idiot and i am suprised that ronnie is holding onto him

 

[PhinSoldia]

Not saying TO has to honor the length of the deal but he really doesn't have the right to ***** about it until after this season, not before. We all know he hired Rosenhaus to avoid going to that length and get restructured now but don't you think Philly offered him that deal knowing it fit their cap the first 2 years? That's why if TO wasn't happy he shouldn't have signed or he should have signed a 2 year deal.

Also keep in mind here Philly gave him that contract based on if he acted like an *** they could get out of it easier which will clearly happen. TO won't be an Eagle next year. They release him now and take a huge cap hit. They release him after this year and the hit is minimal!! TO has no leverage here and he knows it. The sad thing is next year you really think any team is going to sign him long term to a huge deal?

thats pretty much why he reported to camp...:rofl3: