Rosen should be the Dolphins long term answer

[phinfan40353]

Thank you for actually attempting to answer without passive aggressive digs and snark.

Steve Young and Drew Brees are the two I thought of as closest to that, but neither of them were as abysmally bad as Rosen was last season.

Kirk Cousins is a bad example though. He isn’t dominant. His original team declined to pay him because they didn’t think he was good enough, and he has been lackluster since joining the Vikings. I think Rosen following his path is a worst-case scenario, honestly. We’d be stuck in the 7-9 win purgatory again.

The Cousins example is another reality of what exists in the NFL. There are few QBs in the Elite class. Then their are mid-tier and then all the rest.

All of these classifications are based on their actual QB skillset as an NFL QB.

Unfortunately, with less than 10 Elite QBs and less than 10 average QBs, the pay scale doesn't reflect actual talent. It reflects the desperation created by desparity in talent and void of legitimate options

So you either overpay for average or accept below average and condemn your team to losing

This is why teams overdraft QBs. They are desperate to win and you need a QB to win.

This is why I said "relative" and offered Cousins. Cousins is paid like an Elite QB and started on the bench. So, in a sense of the argument, he did struggle to begin and became a bonafide QB. Even if it is just his salary that commands "bonafide".

With over drafting it is hard for a QB to go unnoticed like the days of a Steve Young or Brett Favre. Favre was on the Falcons to start if I recall and GB traded for him.

The instant gratification machine ches up QB prospects so quickly it is hard to find a QB that went undiscovered or given a chance to be groomed into a starter.

That is also due to win now mentalities which have eroded the coaching ranks of teachers who have time to develop a kid. They have to focus on one or two QBs and hope a prospect falls to them.

This is why it is hard to find QBs who came from nowhere.

And quite honestly, I feel Rosen could be developed but there isn't a single fan that could wait for it to happen. Not to mention his original draft status deems he produces now.

One of the few examples I can see recently that priced grooming can. Still work is Aaron Rodgers. He was drafted in First Round but given time.

GB is one of the few places that is tolerated. Because their fan base is patient and understanding of their teams resources. They get it.

Otherwise, if a QB doesn't succeed immediately he is a bust. Which such a high failure rate, wiser teams would invest heavily in QB coaches and supporting cast and develop an environment to foster the growth of QBs.

The irony is the same teams under the gun to win now will still be in the same predicament a decade from now aside getting lucky. So why not take the time to develop a winner and give themselves a real chance?

Rosen has tools. He could be developed. Flores is trying to protect the investment. But our fans won't allow him the time to develop. Win or go home.

 

[superphin]

I'll sit out. Your ignorance wall rivals the one in China.
You go ahead and keep comparing Rosen to established HOFs after his 1st start with a deconstructed team and 1st year coach as to how YOU know he is terrible.

You realize he was just comparing Young and Brees stuggles early on in their career to Rosen's struggles in his young career.

 

[SCOTTY]

You realize he was just comparing Young and Brees stuggles early on in their career to Rosen's struggles in his young career.

Lol. Seriously. My posts says you can't do that comparison. Man agrue for the sake of argument.

 

[SCOTTY]

If you read and understood the conversation, you’d know why they were being discussed. But you didn’t. You started the whole old man yelling at clouds routine.

Old man yelling at the clouds lol. I'll give you this. Some of your posts do really make me laugh.

 

[Locke]

The Cousins example is another reality of what exists in the NFL. There are few QBs in the Elite class. Then their are mid-tier and then all the rest.

All of these classifications are based on their actual QB skillset as an NFL QB.

Unfortunately, with less than 10 Elite QBs and less than 10 average QBs, the pay scale doesn't reflect actual talent. It reflects the desperation created by desparity in talent and void of legitimate options

So you either overpay for average or accept below average and condemn your team to losing

This is why teams overdraft QBs. They are desperate to win and you need a QB to win.

This is why I said "relative" and offered Cousins. Cousins is paid like an Elite QB and started on the bench. So, in a sense of the argument, he did struggle to begin and became a bonafide QB. Even if it is just his salary that commands "bonafide".

With over drafting it is hard for a QB to go unnoticed like the days of a Steve Young or Brett Favre. Favre was on the Falcons to start if I recall and GB traded for him.

The instant gratification machine ches up QB prospects so quickly it is hard to find a QB that went undiscovered or given a chance to be groomed into a starter.

That is also due to win now mentalities which have eroded the coaching ranks of teachers who have time to develop a kid. They have to focus on one or two QBs and hope a prospect falls to them.

This is why it is hard to find QBs who came from nowhere.

And quite honestly, I feel Rosen could be developed but there isn't a single fan that could wait for it to happen. Not to mention his original draft status deems he produces now.

One of the few examples I can see recently that priced grooming can. Still work is Aaron Rodgers. He was drafted in First Round but given time.

GB is one of the few places that is tolerated. Because their fan base is patient and understanding of their teams resources. They get it.

Otherwise, if a QB doesn't succeed immediately he is a bust. Which such a high failure rate, wiser teams would invest heavily in QB coaches and supporting cast and develop an environment to foster the growth of QBs.

The irony is the same teams under the gun to win now will still be in the same predicament a decade from now aside getting lucky. So why not take the time to develop a winner and give themselves a real chance?

Rosen has tools. He could be developed. Flores is trying to protect the investment. But our fans won't allow him the time to develop. Win or go home.

You know, I agree with everything here. Your points are valid and definitely reflect the reality of the NFL. And I’d agree with developing him more if this were any draft since Andrew Luck. None of the QBs who entered the draft since then have had the raw talent and history of winning that Tua has. It’s easy to keep developing Rosen if the alternative is a Jared Goff or Sam Darnold. It’s hard to pass on that when you’ve got a potential 20 year All-Pro sitting there waiting to be drafted. Why settle for top 15 QB play when you have the chance at top 3?

 

[dolphinheel]

Dude he would have had like 8 TD's if not for all the drops and that's with the worst OL in the history of all of football imagine what he could do if he had even 1.5 seconds.

Exactly right. Not only that but the oline he had in Arizona rivals this one for being epically bad. He was sacked 45 fuking times last year. FORTY FIVE! How is that an accurate evaluation of this very young and talented QB? It isn't, but it does show his toughness. I've been a Dolphins fan since the beginning--not my beginning, the Dolphin's beginning, so I've literally seen it all. This kid needs to be given a fair shake and I fully expect him to be the starter next year regardless of who we draft, which is why we gave up a 2nd round pick. That is if he survives this season. I also think we should be drafting developmental QB's almost every year, just like the Pats do. Eventually if we keep picking high we will hit on our franchise QB. If it's Tua great. Let them battle it out in camp, but when was the last time a rookie QB actually succeeded as a rookie? Right, it's rare. You don't build successful franchises by counting on rare exceptions. Fact is "serviceable" is the norm in the NFL. We can do serviceable if we surround that player with talent on the oline and with offensive playmakers.

 

[The Goat]

The reason Rosen is not seen as a quality NFL QB is because he has been forced to play with inept offensive teams in Arizona and Miami. To me he is the best QB selected in the 2018 draft and the Dolphins brass would be idiots if they don’t build this team around him.

They need to upgrade the OL, WR’s and RB,s as well as the defense with all the draft picks they have the next two years. IMO, they don’t need to select their QB of the future in the draft because he is already on the Dolphins roster.

While I like Rosen, part of last year's results are on him, and him alone. Yes, his team was abysmal, but it was a rude awakening for a 21 year-old kid who did not deal with adversity as well as he could have.

That being said, he decidedly seems to have overcome a lot of what he did. I don't think anyone can say definitely whether he should or shouldn't be the long term answer aside from him. But I sure as heck don't think that the Dolphins should go out of their way to NOT draft a QB. That way the person who can decide who the QB of the future is...is the QB of the future himself.

 

[SCOTTY]

While I like Rosen, part of last year's results are on him, and him alone. Yes, his team was abysmal, but it was a rude awakening for a 21 year-old kid who did not deal with adversity as well as he could have.

That being said, he decidedly seems to have overcome a lot of what he did. I don't think anyone can say definitely whether he should or shouldn't be the long term answer aside from him. But I sure as heck don't think that the Dolphins should go out of their way to NOT draft a QB. That way the person who can decide who the QB of the future is...is the QB of the future himself.

Supporting Rosen in no way means we are against drafting a qb 1st next year. Seems like Rosen haters need to hang their hat on that. Anyone who hates Rosen has made thier mind up. I'd say it's leads than 50/50 who support Rosen now say NO to drafting a qb.

 

[phins_4_ever]

I think everyone is in the wait and see mode. The issue is people already proclaiming that Rosen is the answer and that we should pass on a first round QB. Which is literally the name of this thread.

Are they?

There’s nothing that Rosen can show me that changes my mind on Tua. And if we pass on Tua for Rosen, this team is too far gone for redemption.

Are they really?


Like I said before: your sentiment is shared especially the people who just gave you a like.

Now I show you a wait and see approach....

I was all in when we picked him up. I wanted to see what we have in him. I am not opposed to drafting a QB if we have to. But if Rosen plays like a future franchise QB I do not see the need.
My options are open. If Rosen fails we'll get a QB. If he doesn't he will have another year to grow. If he fails then we can pick a QB in the first round in 2021. If he succeeds in 2020 we have our future QB.

My opinion has never changed. My alliance is not to Rosen or any other one player.

 

[Rolltide03]

Rosen probably is one of the nicest qbs we’ve seen in a while, but I still think he could only be good to great. Tua would be great/elite so you still take the upgrade

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

The Cousins example is another reality of what exists in the NFL. There are few QBs in the Elite class. Then their are mid-tier and then all the rest.

All of these classifications are based on their actual QB skillset as an NFL QB.

Unfortunately, with less than 10 Elite QBs and less than 10 average QBs, the pay scale doesn't reflect actual talent. It reflects the desperation created by desparity in talent and void of legitimate options

So you either overpay for average or accept below average and condemn your team to losing

This is why teams overdraft QBs. They are desperate to win and you need a QB to win.

This is why I said "relative" and offered Cousins. Cousins is paid like an Elite QB and started on the bench. So, in a sense of the argument, he did struggle to begin and became a bonafide QB. Even if it is just his salary that commands "bonafide".

With over drafting it is hard for a QB to go unnoticed like the days of a Steve Young or Brett Favre. Favre was on the Falcons to start if I recall and GB traded for him.

The instant gratification machine ches up QB prospects so quickly it is hard to find a QB that went undiscovered or given a chance to be groomed into a starter.

That is also due to win now mentalities which have eroded the coaching ranks of teachers who have time to develop a kid. They have to focus on one or two QBs and hope a prospect falls to them.

This is why it is hard to find QBs who came from nowhere.

And quite honestly, I feel Rosen could be developed but there isn't a single fan that could wait for it to happen. Not to mention his original draft status deems he produces now.

One of the few examples I can see recently that priced grooming can. Still work is Aaron Rodgers. He was drafted in First Round but given time.

GB is one of the few places that is tolerated. Because their fan base is patient and understanding of their teams resources. They get it.

Otherwise, if a QB doesn't succeed immediately he is a bust. Which such a high failure rate, wiser teams would invest heavily in QB coaches and supporting cast and develop an environment to foster the growth of QBs.

The irony is the same teams under the gun to win now will still be in the same predicament a decade from now aside getting lucky. So why not take the time to develop a winner and give themselves a real chance?

Rosen has tools. He could be developed. Flores is trying to protect the investment. But our fans won't allow him the time to develop. Win or go home.

Good post. Favre slid to the 2nd round because of a terrible car accident that almost killed him. Teams were worried about him dying on the field because of a hit.

I was at Legion Field in 1990 when an emaciated Favre took the field against Alabama in his first game back from the crash that nearly killed him 2 months earlier. He led his team on the game winning drive in the 4th quarter to kick the game winning field goal and he beat Bama 27-24 that day. I'll never forget it.

 

[Sirspud]

And yet Russell Wilson had a line giving up a higher sack percentage last season than ours is right now and still put up a 110 QB rating and got the team to the playoffs.

I'm over the excuses. You can either do it or you can't. People should have learned that with Tannehill.

Sack percentage isn't always a good measure of line play, as some QB's like Russell and Deshaun Watson hold the ball and move trying to get big plays. Seattle also consistently mounts a running game, while neither Drake nor Ballage have approached 50 yards in three games.

Also really clever statistical manipulation to compare a season to a small sample size. Brilliant.

But if you want to talk about sacks, let's make it simple. We were 27th in sacks allowed last year. We added nobody of value on the line and we lost BOTH starting tackles, including one thought highly enough to be a centerpiece of a trade for two first round picks. So we were completely terrible last year, and then SUBTRACTED significant talent. And you want to say the QB's are taking less sacks? Sounds like they are doing a great job of getting rid of the ball.

 

[Lionstone]

What NFL credentials does Rosen have at this point? Having one of the worst rookies season ever? Throwing 2 TDs over an 8 game stretch? Not having thrown a TDs in over 100 attempts with the Dolphins? Never throwing for over 300 yards in 14 games? Only throwing for over 200 yards in 5 out of 14 games?

The answer is he does not have any NFL credentials, but that is not the correct question. What NFL credentials will he have by the end of the season? By that time, we will know.

 

[hoops]

Rosen probably is one of the nicest qbs we’ve seen in a while, but I still think he could only be good to great. Tua would be great/elite so you still take the upgrade

I like this analysis. Good to great vs great to elite

 

[BIGFINS]

Miami Dolphins Josh Rosen got no help from the offense in loss

For two quarters the Miami Dolphins looked as though they were going to put up a major fight and maybe even take one from the Cowboys. Then it imploded.

phinphanatic.com

Now we have an article supporting almost everything that we have been talking about lol....

All these Rosen haters are going to make excuses about this too!!