Rosen’s Slow Start | Page 11 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Rosen’s Slow Start

mwestberry said:
Do you know how Rosen performed in his rookie training camp?... was he just thrown in because of his draft status or did he earn the job? Just curious
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The plan was for him to sit but Sam Bradford was so awful they threw him into the fire. But again cannot underplay how awful Steve Wilks and crew were. Vastly unprepared, no idea what they were doing so I take a lot of last years Cardinals with a grain of salt
 
Kamelion4291 said:
I'm sorry, but since we're sweeping everything under the rug here from his time in Arizona, would you like to tell me when he's actually done his winning since there's gotta be some beacon of hope outside of his draft position?

He went 8-5 as a freshman at UCLA
3-3 as a Sophomore
6-5 as a Junior
3-10 at Arizona
And he's currently getting beat out by a guy who should be an NFL backup.

Newsflash, we might have the worst offensive line in the NFL THIS year so I already know the myriad of excuses that are going to be thrown Rosen's way after he looks like garbage yet again.

This is exactly the same merry-go-round we had with Tannehill. "OMG, our offensive line is so bad! If only Tannehill had some guys who could block for a quarterback with zero pocket presence!" Guess what? Rosen is better than Tannehill in regards to pocket presence, but he throws late all the time. He takes too long to go through his progressions which is why he took a ton of sacks last year, why he took a ton of sacks and had multiple concussions at UCLA, and why he is going to take a ton of sacks this year too.

Isn't it a quarterback's job to lift up his teammates and play well in spite of what's around him if he's actually good? If a QB requires everything around him to function at a high level for him to just function, he isn't good. That's been the case since the beginning of this league.

It's not about writing him off. It's about having someone earn the benefit of the doubt rather than just giving it to him for free because it makes you feel better knowing there could be hope.
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I think this is well-described.

I was a buyer of Josh Rosen in the 1st round last year. I thought, if you need a QB, you could roll the dice on him. He was the least favorite of the top four guys for me, but still had some tools, and some compelling technical skills.

But when you undergo the exercise of Bayesian updating your old thesis in the light of new information, that's when the thin string that Josh Rosen was hanging onto in order to keep that 1st round grade last year...snaps.

We knew he was an underachiever at UCLA. We knew this. It was something that had to be rationalized. The problem is, in Arizona he continued the trends that were already in place.

  • His 3rd & Makeable efficacy (the way I calculate it) declined each year at UCLA, from 47% to 42% and then all the way down to 38%. And then in Arizona...33%.
  • As you point out, he didn't win an impressive amount there, going 8-5, 3-3, and 6-5. Then 3-10 in Arizona.
  • His passing efficiency ranked #26 of 99 in 2017, #46 of 104 in 2016, and #53 of 106 in 2015. Obviously it was putrid in Arizona.

At some point in the evaluation, you say...enough with the excuses. This does not smell at all like an elite franchise QB about to happen.
 
Let me also preface and say that I am fully expecting a QB round 1 next year but am still rooting for Rosen to live up to the hype he has had his entire life. I'm also just saying that Arizona was a **** show last year. Like on par with Cam Cameron's loan year here.
 
mwestberry said:
Do you know how Rosen did in his rookie training camp? … did he win the job or was he just expected to be the guy from day 1?.. just curious
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He lost the job to Sam Bradford, who got crunched by Khalil Mack in the 4th quarter of the 3rd game against the Chicago Bears. Rosen took over for the rest of the game and they decided to just hand him the keys for the rest of the season.
 
ckparrothead said:
I think this is well-described.

I was a buyer of Josh Rosen in the 1st round last year. I thought, if you need a QB, you could roll the dice on him. He was the least favorite of the top four guys for me, but still had some tools, and some compelling technical skills.

But when you undergo the exercise of Bayesian updating your old thesis in the light of new information, that's when the thin string that Josh Rosen was hanging onto in order to keep that 1st round grade last year...snaps.

We knew he was an underachiever at UCLA. We knew this. It was something that had to be rationalized. The problem is, in Arizona he continued the trends that were already in place.

  • His 3rd & Makeable efficacy (the way I calculate it) declined each year at UCLA, from 47% to 42% and then all the way down to 38%. And then in Arizona...33%.
  • As you point out, he didn't win an impressive amount there, going 8-5, 3-3, and 6-5. Then 3-10 in Arizona.
  • His passing efficiency ranked #26 of 99 in 2017, #46 of 104 in 2016, and #53 of 106 in 2015. Obviously it was putrid in Arizona.

At some point in the evaluation, you say...enough with the excuses. This does not smell at all like an elite franchise QB about to happen.
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Lol who's calling him elite? We're saying we're ok with the team taking him on a test drive. Nothing more.
 
We need elite or we need to stink - so we have draft capital - then we need a QB who lifts those around him - we can be a top of the division when Tom bales out on Bill
 
ckparrothead said:
He lost the job to Sam Bradford, who got crunched by Khalil Mack in the 4th quarter of the 3rd game against the Chicago Bears. Rosen took over for the rest of the game and they decided to just hand him the keys for the rest of the season.
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Fun fact: Sam Bradford played 5 games for the Vikings and Cardinals between 2017 and 2018. He threw 123 passes. For this, he made 34 million dollars.

That's $276,423 per pass attempt.
 
The Goat said:
Fun fact: Sam Bradford played 5 games for the Vikings and Cardinals between 2017 and 2018. He threw 123 passes. For this, he made 34 million dollars.

That's $276,423 per pass attempt.
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Unrelated to the thread, but I just have to say that Sam Bradford is the biggest thief in the history of the league. Can't believe people just keep giving that guy money. What a total fraud.
 
I never understood the hype for any of those QB's last year outside of Mayfield. None of their college numbers (other than Baker) were all that impressive. Darnold showed some promise last year (which sucks because he's with the Jets and Gase now) but even he is no sure thing. Like I said, he had some moments last year on a bad team but he still has a lot of work to do.

I think Gase was overrated and is certainly no guru. His only saving grace may be the fact they forced an established DC down his throat, Williams is also nothing special IMO but he can look ok with talent around him. (Certainly better than Burke). Jets have some of that with all those high draft picks but still have holes on that defense.

I am rooting for Rosen and don't think anyone has seen the best of him yet but I still expect to be taking a QB in round 1 next year. He would have to have a ridiculously good year for me not to draft one and make them compete. I am just looking forward to ALL those draft picks for once. I just hope we don't have to give up too many of them to move up from the middle of the draft.
 
PhxSunFan34 said:
So again I ask, are you just here to crush any semblance of optimism?
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Alright dude, let's shut down the forum. We can't criticize any player because it's possible for the player to improve. We can't criticize any coach because they can all learn and get better, because if we do we're just doing so to crush everybody's optimism for said player or coach...

Are you going to ever contribute to the discussions at hand or is it just going to be a bunch of one-liners out of you that are equivalent to a toddler asking "Why?" over and over again?
 
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