Rumor: Philbin wanted to trade for Albert. Ireland said no

[OnDaChainWax]

Honestly I'm not shifting all blame to Ireland (Michael Egnew was reportedly a Joe Philbin request) but I do think that it's become obvious that there was a HUGE disconnect on players. Some on Philbin, some on Ireland. There are rumors on both and there is probably enough truth to go along with it.

My belief has always been that a GM should be able to work with his scouts, the head coach, and all the assistant coaches to pick players. I don't really think Ireland quite understood what type of players Joe's staff wanted.

This disconnect was evident even to us Joe Blows so far away from the office.

And as much as I defend Philbin, as Vertical mentioned, it takes 2 to tango ( not True Lies, NC- I kid because I love).

But I for one want a power structure where all have a voice. This is the very reason I wouldnt want a GM to have final say. I want 3 point of views: GM, talk to me about his talent. HC, can you use him, how bad do we need him? VP, what kind of pay day is he looking for, is it feasible without ruining our future?

Now, allegedly, Philbin was begging for Oline help and Ireland was, "Nah. Ill go so far opposite Ill even trade a high drfat choice to go in the other direction."

Either way, this why I figure a GM hunt is taking so long or at least I hope its why. We can bring in Gamble, DeCosta, the roman god of football knowledge. If they dont work as a cohesive unit, what will it matter?

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Gaine and all the scouts are there. I agree that even if Philbin isn't there, the other coaches should be.

I'm wondering if they are going to put more emphasis on the one-on-one with each player than the controlled atmosphere that is the Senior Bowl.

While it undoubtedly helps (sure as hell doesn't hurt), I dont understand the infatuation with the significance of the Senior Bowl. Are this kids not on tape?

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

A strong coach would have benched Martin and forced his hand. C'mon guys, have none of you ever had to take a stand? Really?

Rookie coach? Final say? If you have a bum on your team, you move heaven and hell to keep from letting him protect your developmental 2nd year QB's back side. You go to the mat for what you believe. You don't tuck your tail between your legs and hope for the best.

A strong coach would have gotten this done.

Unless the bum behind the bum is a bigger bum.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Are you kidding me? This isn't kindergarten? We know this. AND we know the men lining up against Rat Fink aren't toddlers. Their sole purpose in life is to create mayhem against their opponents, which includes hitting opposing QB's has hard as humanly possible, inflicting as much pain and injury as their impact can deliver.

Yeah, let's let a bum protect our QB.

I've dealt with many a "final say" superior. If you're strong enough and have the brains, evidence and RESPECT, you can get what you need.

A strong coach would have gotten it done. Phailbin is weak. His coaching acumen is weak. His coaching staff is weak. And all the excuses are weak.

I bet Aponte would have gotten what she wanted, because she has big bad balls.

I dont know why your posts continue to surprise me. Your signature is a dead Dolphin. I am clearly the idiot here and I am not being sarcastic.

 

[Geforce]

While it undoubtedly helps (sure as hell doesn't hurt), I dont understand the infatuation with the significance of the Senior Bowl. Are this kids not on tape?

Yes these kids are on tape but the tape doesn't tell you everything. Sometimes you need to see a player in person to get confirmation of what you see on tape. You might also want to see how a player reacts to something that is not in his comfort zone. For example, can a cornerback who is used to playing man to man play off-coverage.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Because all I heard in the press out of Philbin's mouth were positive things about Martin.

I had to stop reading there so I hope I didnt miss a good point thereafter.

I can see it now...

Press: "Coach, how is Martin coming along?"

Coach: " F@cking atrocious. We are having a wheelchair with all of the latest technology constructed for Tannehill in preparation for the worst as well as a priest on the sidelines to be proactive."

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Yes these kids are on tape but the tape doesn't tell you everything. Sometimes you need to see a player in person to get confirmation of what you see on tape. You might also want to see how a player reacts to something that is not in his comfort zone. For example, can a cornerback who is used to playing man to man play off-coverage.

I certainly understand why its beneficial but IMO, a few practices and one game doesnt do any justice.

Thinking about it now, it has the potential be detrimental. You have a coach that is on the fence about a guy. Coach sees him practice and play is heart out which, if you are an intelligent college prospect you will move mountains to do, and all of the sudden we're infatuated with a Senior Bowl performance.

That was a stretch to maintain my position. Some of these picks have coaches go back as far as middle school for investigations. One week, one game- I dont see the urgency.

Having the opportunity to meet them in person is what I would value most.

 

[Geforce]

I certainly understand why its beneficial but IMO, a few practices and one game doesnt do any justice.

Thinking about it now, it has the potential be detrimental. You have a coach that is on the fence about a guy. Coach sees him practice and play is heart out which, if you are an intelligent college prospect you will move mountains to do, and all of the sudden we're infatuated with a Senior Bowl performance.

That was a stretch to maintain my position. Some of these picks have coaches go back as far as middle school for investigations. One week, one game- I dont see the urgency.

Having the opportunity to meet them in person is what I would value most.

Many team coaches and scouts don't stick around in Mobile for the game because they think they get all the information they need about a player during the week of practices. The Saints stuck around and saw Marques Colston perform in the game and took a chance and drafted him in the 7th round. On the flip side. The Dolphins were impressed with Michael Egnew because of his willingness to mix it up during the practices and the jury is still out on how it works out for the team.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

if Joe really preferred to use that pick to acquire Albert, he should have spoken up.

Couldnt agree with you more. I wouldve loved to have been a fly on the wall for all Jordan discussions because if Philbin was truly a cheerleader at any point, I would be bashing him along with NC and the rest.

But you also cannot make that statement because we cant prove the he never spoke up.

What we do have is the following: Philbin did not play a #3 overall draft pick in the manner which a #3 overall draft pick should be played. And we have to ask ourselves, why would Philbin not play a #3 overall draft- less we forget we traded up for- if he was verbal about wanting him?

 

[OnDaChainWax]

The Dolphins were impressed with Michael Egnew because of his willingness to mix it up during the practices and the jury is still out on how it works out for the team.

This is a bold-faced lie. You damn well know Egnew was showing off a state of the art toaster that would be part of the package of drafting him. And who could resist? Lol

 

[NCFINFAN13]

I don't know your life, but you have spouted adamantly that you are "successful"...and also shown us convincingly that you don't take no crap and will do everything to always get your way. One of the 2 is a lie because they do not work together in the real world. Just because you don't fight for EVERYTHING it doesn't make you weak. Concessions have to be made in life and battles have to be picked carefully. It is literally impossible to be successful (outside of maybe your own definition of the word) when you never make concessions for long term good.

The only people that always have to have their way and fight everyone on every single desire they have are children. Adults that do that are constantly looking for another job.

You're right, you don't know my life. And frankly I won't give you the tour.

But I never said you have to fight for EVERYTHING or that you can't make concessions. I don't necessarily fight for everything. I weigh the value and decide the worth. If it's important to me, game on. What I've said, very clearly is that a strong coach, can get what he wants. Philbin had the ammunition to get another LT --- IF that's what he wanted. I hire personnel all the time, and while they're not ball players, a good management team hires the right people or they fail. When I'm passionate about someone, I go to the nines for them and get it done. And I've always made my case, and presented the pro's, cons and values. I get my guys even when some pencil pusher is adamant that they don't want them, because I never give and my benefits always outweigh the risks. When I'm not passionate, I don't. Next man up.

If you're professional coach and you have reservations, confirmed by action or inaction, about arguably the most important position on your OL. A position that can possibly end the career of your "up and coming" young QB, and a position that will definitely cost you games, you don't lose that fight. You find a way.

With the wheeling and dealing Ireland did this past off season (albeit not very sound in many cases), believing that Ireland wanted to stick Philbin with a disaster at LT is really naive.

The argument that since JM was a Ireland pick therefore he was adamant that he would not replace him, is not founded in reality. A franchise QB is infinitely more precious than a bad LT. Any GM, and I dare say, even folks like you, would absolutely understand risk/reward management.

Had Philbin truly wanted a trade ... If Philbin would had truly made the case ... as much as I dislike Ireland, Ireland would have done something.

Again, so that we're extremely clear since evidently you haven't read the entire thread .... I'm of the opinion that Philbin and Ireland came to the conclusion that JM was a-okay so there was really only a half baked attempt.

I base on that opinion on reality. Having to remind people of the actual events, more or less, gets old, but .... Ireland and KC negotiated more or less and it didn't go down.

You see the truth is, both those guys suck and now, we simply have the survivor blaming the deceased.

Btw, this is professional football. The manly of the manly. If you're not prepared to fight for what you want as a coach, you end up losing to an 0-8 Tampa Bay team on MNF.

Ooops.

---------- Post added at 01:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

I dont know why your posts continue to surprise me. Your signature is a dead Dolphin. I am clearly the idiot here and I am not being sarcastic.

I don't think you or any body here are idiots, just different opinions.

 

[roy_miami]

You're right, you don't know my life. And frankly I won't give you the tour.

But I never said you have to fight for EVERYTHING or that you can't make concessions. I don't necessarily fight for everything. I weigh the value and decide the worth. If it's important to me, game on. What I've said, very clearly is that a strong coach, can get what he wants. Philbin had the ammunition to get another LT --- IF that's what he wanted. I hire personnel all the time, and while they're not ball players, a good management team hires the right people or they fail. When I'm passionate about someone, I go to the nines for them and get it done. And I've always made my case, and presented the pro's, cons and values. I get my guys even when some pencil pusher is adamant that they don't want them, because I never give and my benefits always outweigh the risks. When I'm not passionate, I don't. Next man up.

If you're professional coach and you have reservations, confirmed by action or inaction, about arguably the most important position on your OL. A position that can possibly end the career of your "up and coming" young QB, and a position that will definitely cost you games, you don't lose that fight. You find a way.

With the wheeling and dealing Ireland did this past off season (albeit not very sound in many cases), believing that Ireland wanted to stick Philbin with a disaster at LT is really naive.

The argument that since JM was a Ireland pick therefore he was adamant that he would not replace him, is not founded in reality. A franchise QB is infinitely more precious than a bad LT. Any GM, and I dare say, even folks like you, would absolutely understand risk/reward management.

Had Philbin truly wanted a trade ... If Philbin would had truly made the case ... as much as I dislike Ireland, Ireland would have done something.

Again, so that we're extremely clear since evidently you haven't read the entire thread .... I'm of the opinion that Philbin and Ireland came to the conclusion that JM was a-okay so there was really only a half baked attempt.

I base on that opinion on reality. Having to remind people of the actual events, more or less, gets old, but .... Ireland and KC negotiated more or less and it didn't go down.

You see the truth is, both those guys suck and now, we simply have the survivor blaming the deceased.
.

You say if Philbin really wanted a different LT the evidence would be that we would have one.

On the flip side what if Ireland really thought Martin was good enough at LT despite what Philbin's thoughts were, how would that shake out? What evidence would show this theory to be true?

 

[NCFINFAN13]

You say if Philbin really wanted a different LT the evidence would be that we would have one.

On the flip side what if Ireland really thought Martin was good enough at LT despite what Philbin's thoughts were, how would that shake out? What evidence would show this theory to be true?

Ireland tried to make a deal for Albert. Wasn't a great attempt, but an attempt none the less. Clear indication that Ireland was not adamant.

 

[Geforce]

You're right, you don't know my life. And frankly I won't give you the tour.

But I never said you have to fight for EVERYTHING or that you can't make concessions. I don't necessarily fight for everything. I weigh the value and decide the worth. If it's important to me, game on. What I've said, very clearly is that a strong coach, can get what he wants. Philbin had the ammunition to get another LT --- IF that's what he wanted. I hire personnel all the time, and while they're not ball players, a good management team hires the right people or they fail. When I'm passionate about someone, I go to the nines for them and get it done. And I've always made my case, and presented the pro's, cons and values. I get my guys even when some pencil pusher is adamant that they don't want them, because I never give and my benefits always outweigh the risks. When I'm not passionate, I don't. Next man up.

If you're professional coach and you have reservations, confirmed by action or inaction, about arguably the most important position on your OL. A position that can possibly end the career of your "up and coming" young QB, and a position that will definitely cost you games, you don't lose that fight. You find a way.

With the wheeling and dealing Ireland did this past off season (albeit not very sound in many cases), believing that Ireland wanted to stick Philbin with a disaster at LT is really naive.

The argument that since JM was a Ireland pick therefore he was adamant that he would not replace him, is not founded in reality. A franchise QB is infinitely more precious than a bad LT. Any GM, and I dare say, even folks like you, would absolutely understand risk/reward management.

Had Philbin truly wanted a trade ... If Philbin would had truly made the case ... as much as I dislike Ireland, Ireland would have done something.

Again, so that we're extremely clear since evidently you haven't read the entire thread .... I'm of the opinion that Philbin and Ireland came to the conclusion that JM was a-okay so there was really only a half baked attempt.

I base on that opinion on reality. Having to remind people of the actual events, more or less, gets old, but .... Ireland and KC negotiated more or less and it didn't go down.

You see the truth is, both those guys suck and now, we simply have the survivor blaming the deceased.

Btw, this is professional football. The manly of the manly. If you're not prepared to fight for what you want as a coach, you end up losing to an 0-8 Tampa Bay team on MNF.

Ooops.

---------- Post added at 01:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------



I don't think you or any body here are idiots, just different opinions.

I think Ireland wanted to oblige Philbin with a backup plan to Martin but didn't want to overpay for that backup option because the options were limited.

Ireland had to have known there were concerns about Martin ability to play LT because, according to Martin himself, as of late April the team had not told him which side of the line to focus on.

This was posted by Adam Beasley on April 24, 2013.

So Martin has the heft needed to play right tackle, if so instructed. But as of Tuesday afternoon, he had not been told by Dolphins coaches which side to focus on.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/24/3360218/miami-dolphins-new-uniforms-leaked.html#storylink=cpy

 

[roy_miami]

Ireland tried to make a deal for Albert. Wasn't a great attempt, but an attempt none the less. Clear indication that Ireland was not adamant.

So what, Joe Philbin vetoed that deal, is that your theory then? Ireland was really the one that knew the o-line was a disaster but Joe Philbin was talking him off the ledge? It has to be one or the other, either Ireland knew the line needed fixing or Philbin did and the other disagreed.

 

[NCFINFAN13]

I think Ireland wanted to oblige Philbin with a backup plan to Martin but didn't want to overpay for that backup option because the options were limited.

Ireland had to have known there were concerns about Martin ability to play LT because, according to Martin himself, as of late April the team had not told him which side of the line to focus on.

I think you're right. This is my case for both of them lacking. One didn't make his case strong enough (if he indeed felt that way). The other not taking the situation seriously enough.