Sanchez-Henne-Fitz Watch

[nyjunc]

It turned out to be bad but if they caught us off guard and convert the 1st down they win the game. The right thing to do would have been to take a sack if the play wasn't open

 

[The New Guy]

It turned out to be bad but if they caught us off guard and convert the 1st down they win the game. The right thing to do would have been to take a sack if the play wasn't open

Seeing as how the coach knew it was a backup QB who had not attempted a single pass that day, it was a really bad call. Even if they had completed it, you have to question the call.

 

[Fuerue]

The Jets started at the 22, and with only 1:15 and no timeouts, I don't think it is likely. None of that would even matter had the Det kicker not gotten injured forcing a DT to attempt an extra point. Injuries are a part of the game, but for that to happen at that time in that situation was a lucky break. I do give the Jets credit for taking advantage of the opportunities that are given to them. The point is they don't even have a chance in a lot of those games if those kind of things don't happen. It happens to other teams as well. The Jets do not deserve credit for the other teams mistakes / misfortunes.

Interesting to watch people interpret games from different points of view. The initial point of the thread was comparing the three qb's in the division who are not named Tom Brady, who is pretty unanimously considered the best in the division, if not the whole league. I think it goes without saying that Fitz played better than henne and Sanchez, and I don't think it is too far fetched to say that Henne played a better game than Sanchez. I am a Jets fan, and i know it sounds a little skewed based on stat lines, but the fact of the matter is, I think you have to consider expectations as well since we only have 1 game to go on. With back to back title appearances, and very talented weapons at his disposal, I think MS failed to perform in the opportunities he was provided. Dallas loaded up to stop our prolific running attack, and left Mark with favorable matchups all over the field, and he failed to deliver. Henne was in a different situation all together. Nobody really knows what to make of Miami's questionable decisions about their running game, so naturally NE came in and went after Henne pretty wildly. I think Henne did about as well as could be expected considering how poorly the run game produced even though NE didn't pay any special attention to it. I will concede that out of all QB's in our division, Sanchez definately is bringing up the rear in week 1.

The rest of this talk about last years games and breaks for or against certain teams is largely skewed depending on what team you root for. You can generally look at any team and see breaks for and against both, and by the end of the game it is always very close. The situation I quoted above is a very good example of it. You argue that the Jets got a tremendous break that the kicker was injured and now Suh has to kick an extra point and he misses it making it a 3 point game. By that logic, you have to subtract 3 more points because if the kicker doesn't get hit and injured, he kicks the field goal he lined up for. He doesn't get the penalty call giving Detroit the first down and resulting touchdown.

 

[The New Guy]

Interesting to watch people interpret games from different points of view. The initial point of the thread was comparing the three qb's in the division who are not named Tom Brady, who is pretty unanimously considered the best in the division, if not the whole league. I think it goes without saying that Fitz played better than henne and Sanchez, and I don't think it is too far fetched to say that Henne played a better game than Sanchez. I am a Jets fan, and i know it sounds a little skewed based on stat lines, but the fact of the matter is, I think you have to consider expectations as well since we only have 1 game to go on. With back to back title appearances, and very talented weapons at his disposal, I think MS failed to perform in the opportunities he was provided. Dallas loaded up to stop our prolific running attack, and left Mark with favorable matchups all over the field, and he failed to deliver. Henne was in a different situation all together. Nobody really knows what to make of Miami's questionable decisions about their running game, so naturally NE came in and went after Henne pretty wildly. I think Henne did about as well as could be expected considering how poorly the run game produced even though NE didn't pay any special attention to it. I will concede that out of all QB's in our division, Sanchez definately is bringing up the rear in week 1.

The rest of this talk about last years games and breaks for or against certain teams is largely skewed depending on what team you root for. You can generally look at any team and see breaks for and against both, and by the end of the game it is always very close. The situation I quoted above is a very good example of it. You argue that the Jets got a tremendous break that the kicker was injured and now Suh has to kick an extra point and he misses it making it a 3 point game. By that logic, you have to subtract 3 more points because if the kicker doesn't get hit and injured, he kicks the field goal he lined up for. He doesn't get the penalty call giving Detroit the first down and resulting touchdown.

That was a nice and unbiased post. I agree that other teams get lucky breaks as well, but just call it like it is. When people tell me that the Jets deserve to win such and such game, and I clearly saw that the other team lose the game, I am going to point that out. I would do the same with any other team as well. When we were discussing the Det game, there were several breaks that the Jets got in that game. When nyjunc and JetsJets were trying to explain away the the terrible play call that gave the Jets 40 extra seconds to work with, I pointed out the fact that we would not even be talking about that had the Det kicker not gotten injured. You can't take away the penalty just because he got injured. The Jets still roughed the kicker. The kicker did not have to get injured on the play for the penalty to be called. It was a lucky break that he did get injured and that the coach put in Suh to attempt the extra point. Do you honestly think that Suh had a better chance at that than the punter or any other guy for that matter?

The whole point is the Jets did not play well enough to win that game without the help of Det. The same goes for the Cowboys and a few other games in the past. I don't understand why it matters so much to Jet fans that they get all the credit for every game. A win is still a win. Just admit that they needed a little help/luck to get it.

 

[JETSJETSJETS]

You don't know it, but you are agreeing with me. Go back and read my post #136 and you will see that we agree that Sanchez crossed the goal line at around the 3:00 mark. The Jets only had 1 timeout and the Loins should have had the ball with (according to you 2:48 left). They would have been able to take it to the 2 minute warning before 3rd down. You are not taking into account any time for the Lions 1st and 2nd down plays. According to the play by play, the 1st down play (-2 yard run) took 4 seconds before the Jets could call a TO. The 2nd down play took 7 seconds. It does not show that in the play by play because it went to the 2 minute warning, but if you watch the game, you will see that. 2:48 minus 11 seconds (Det 1st and 2nd down play) equals 2:37. A play clock runs for 40 seconds easily getting to the 2 min warning before 3rd down. With a Det run the Jets would have had the ball with under 1 minute to play no timeouts.

Here's the trick to save 40 seconds. Never call a TO if the game clock shows between 2:41-2:45 and a new play clock just started. Here:

1st down, 2:48 left. Run takes 4 seconds off, Jets SAVE the TO
Time left 2:44, play clock 40 seconds.
2nd down play snaps at 2:04, run takes off 4 seconds. 2 min warning. Jets still have one TO.
3rd down play snaps at 2:00, takes off 5 seconds, Jets call their third TO. Time remaining 1:55, just like how it actually was.

14 seconds is wrong. They would not have had any time left at all. I did not take into account the 14 seconds that it took for Det to punt the ball. They would have had no time left at all. Thanks for pointing that out.

You can't automatically put the Jets on the Det 43 with 40 seconds left. It took them 51 seconds to go from their own 22 to their own 44. It would have been very different had they only had under a minute to work with rather than the 1:40 they had (due to the stupid call by Det) Had Det ran the ball on 3rd down, it would have put the Jets on their own 22 with under a minute to play. If they made the same exact plays (which is not likely as things are much differnet with less time) that would put them on their own 44 with just a few seconds left. I doubt the Jets would be dumping short to LT with 8 or 9 seconds left in the game. Without the penalty they would have been on the Det 43 with no time left on the clock. Again, they needed those things to happen, or they don't win. The situation is a little different seeing as how you have a SP winning QB who knows that if the play is not there to take a sack, and not a back up QB like Det had. Still a gutsy call, but not as bad when you consider who is behind center.

This scenario becomes invalid. See my above explanation.

Was it a bad call by Det?

Absolutely. But Jets weren't lucky that Detriot called that play, cuz the refs cost the Jets 40 seconds prior to that.

 

[The New Guy]

Here's the trick to save 40 seconds. Never call a TO if the game clock shows between 2:41-2:45 and a new play clock just started. Here:

1st down, 2:48 left. Run takes 4 seconds off, Jets SAVE the TO
Time left 2:44, play clock 40 seconds.
2nd down play snaps at 2:04, run takes off 4 seconds. 2 min warning. Jets still have one TO.
3rd down play snaps at 2:00, takes off 5 seconds, Jets call their third TO. Time remaining 1:55, just like how it actually was.



This scenario becomes invalid. See my above explanation.



Absolutely. But Jets weren't lucky that Detriot called that play, cuz the refs cost the Jets 40 seconds prior to that.

You are right. I did not think about not using the timeout until after the 2 min warning.

I am still curious about that play though. Did they ever blow the whistle before signaling a TD? What are the rules on a situation like that? If the refs don't call it a TD, the clock should still run right?

It is very hard to tell, but it looks like his knee was down before he crossed the goal line. It could be argued that was also a bad call, and would have caused the Jets to run another play before getting it in, possibly running 13/14 seconds off the clock. Regardless of that 13 second loss, the Jets still had some lucky breaks in the game.

The Jets were still lucky that Hanson and Stafford were injured and that Peterson had that unnecessary roughness penalty, putting them in FG range. Could they have gotten in FG range without it? I think so, but you never know. None of this would even be talked about had Hanson not gotten injured and made the extra point.

 

[Deep2Evans]

I don't think there's much doubt Fitzpatrick is the 2nd best QB in the AFCE right now.

 

[nyjunc]

I don't think there's much doubt Fitzpatrick is the 2nd best QB in the AFCE right now.

After 2 weeks? Absolutely, he's played great BUT let's not crown him just yet. You played 2 mediocre-bad teams and Fitz has never played w/ playoff pressure, we know Sanchez can handle it but Fitz has never played in a big game before. We'll see if he gets to this year.

 

[AphexPhin]

I think its safe to say Henne is the worst starting QB in the AFC East.

 

[Kinzua]

After 2 weeks? Absolutely, he's played great BUT let's not crown him just yet. You played 2 mediocre-bad teams and Fitz has never played w/ playoff pressure, we know Sanchez can handle it but Fitz has never played in a big game before. We'll see if he gets to this year.

Sanchez sucked Week 1 against a decent Dallas team, and you beat up on the QB-less Jags yesterday. The Jests managed what, 2 TDs and a bunch of FGs?

Fitz threw of 3 TDs yesterday, and he led the Bills to 5 TDs on all 5 of their second half possessions, including the 80 yard winning TD drive with time running out in which he made 2 4th down passes to keep the drive alive. He was clutch.

BTW, he's not only the 6th rated passer, but he's tied with Brady with 7 TDs and 1 INT. Your boy Sanchez hasn't put 2 games like that together in his career.

 

[Kinzua]

I think its safe to say Henne is the worst starting QB in the AFC East.

Not necessarily. Put him on the Jests, and he probably does as well as Sanchez, maybe even a little better.

 

[nyjunc]

Not necessarily. Put him on the Jests, and he probably does as well as Sanchez, maybe even a little better.

Not a chance, what you guys fail to realize is this isn't video game football where the conditions are pristine. Playing QB here is dealing w/ expectations to win, dealing w/ the media, dealing w/ an unforgiving fanbase, playing and performing against top competition. Fitz has been better through 2 weeks w/o a doubt but he's faced the Raiders and Chiefs, let's see Fitz perform in a big game in dec/Jan if he plays in any big games. Henne looks gfood until there is pressure to win then he folds, sanchez does not. he may have bad games once in a while but the man makes plays to win. That doesn't show up in the fantasy #s. Could henne or fitz play on the Jets w/ the expectations and pressure to win? I know Henne can't, I'm not sure about Fitz b/c he has never played in a big game.

 

[nyjunc]

Sanchez sucked Week 1 against a decent Dallas team, and you beat up on the QB-less Jags yesterday. The Jests managed what, 2 TDs and a bunch of FGs?

Fitz threw of 3 TDs yesterday, and he led the Bills to 5 TDs on all 5 of their second half possessions, including the 80 yard winning TD drive with time running out in which he made 2 4th down passes to keep the drive alive. He was clutch.

BTW, he's not only the 6th rated passer, but he's tied with Brady with 7 TDs and 1 INT. Your boy Sanchez hasn't put 2 games like that together in his career.

He didn't suck against dallas, he kept us in the game. He didn't come throuhg late like he has so often before but that is very different from sucking.

Sanchez last threw 3 TDs IN THE DIVISIONAL ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS on the ROAD at 14-2 NEW ENGLAND. I don't care about #s though, it's about helping your team win, Fitz has done an outstanding job the first 2 weeks. he was great yesterday, let's see what happens when he steps up in competition and maybe plays a big game for the first time in his career. I get that you guys haven't had anything to get excited about in a long time but hold off on the Fitz stuff.

By the way, Last year in wees 2 & 3 sanchez had back to back 3 TD games w/ NO INTs leading us to a 14 pt win over NE and an 8 pt road win over Miami. That's better than this 2 game stretch for Fitz.

 

[Kinzua]

Not a chance, what you guys fail to realize is this isn't video game football where the conditions are pristine. Playing QB here is dealing w/ expectations to win, dealing w/ the media, dealing w/ an unforgiving fanbase, playing and performing against top competition. Fitz has been better through 2 weeks w/o a doubt but he's faced the Raiders and Chiefs, let's see Fitz perform in a big game in dec/Jan if he plays in any big games. Henne looks gfood until there is pressure to win then he folds, sanchez does not. he may have bad games once in a while but the man makes plays to win. That doesn't show up in the fantasy #s. Could henne or fitz play on the Jets w/ the expectations and pressure to win? I know Henne can't, I'm not sure about Fitz b/c he has never played in a big game.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

The complaints against Sanchez from Jests fans on ganggreen suggest that he's having the very same kinds of problems that plague a lot of never-gonna-be-ready-for-prime-time QBs: trouble finishing TD drives, staring down receivers, holding the ball too long and taking sacks, making bad decisions that result in INTs. It's never Sanchez's fault, of course: it's the Jests' crappy OL (I guess you-all need 5 Pro Bowlers not just 3 to be decent, right?) or overly complicated plays or the WRs just not getting open. It's the pressure of being a first round draft pick. He just needs more time. He needs a better running game to help him out. Blah, blah, blah ...

Maybe Sanchez will come around, but right now, he is nowhere near as good as Fitzpatrick. He's only being asked to be a game-manager, and he's not doing that great at that. Fitz, OTOH, is expected to carry his team, and so far this season, he's done exactly that with a whole lot less talent around him than Sanchez has.

Sanchez needs to step up and become a first rate NFL QB this season. He's started 30 plus games, so the speed of the game and all the subtleties should start to sink in. He hasn't shown much indication that he's making real progress yet this season. If he wants to run with the big dawgs, he's gotta play like one, not like Trent Edwards with more balls.

 

[Kinzua]

He didn't suck against dallas, he kept us in the game. He didn't come throuhg late like he has so often before but that is very different from sucking.

Right. What were his 4th quarter numbers again?

Sanchez last threw 3 TDs IN THE DIVISIONAL ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS on the ROAD at 14-2 NEW ENGLAND. I don't care about #s though, it's about helping your team win, Fitz has done an outstanding job the first 2 weeks. he was great yesterday, let's see what happens when he steps up in competition and maybe plays a big game for the first time in his career. I get that you guys haven't had anything to get excited about in a long time but hold off on the Fitz stuff.

New England's secondary doesn't scare many teams. The Bills put up 30 on them last season.

By the way, Last year in wees 2 & 3 sanchez had back to back 3 TD games w/ NO INTs leading us to a 14 pt win over NE and an 8 pt road win over Miami. That's better than this 2 game stretch for Fitz.

7 TDs is more than 6 although 0 INTs is better than 1. However, Fitz also led the Bills to 3 other TDs in those 2 games plus he threw 2 passes to turn 4th downs into firsts on the winning TD drive yesterday.

Fitz has shown that he can step up and carry his team. Sanchez hasn't shown that. When the Jests are playing well, he can play well, but he needs to take the next step, which he hasn't done yet.