say NO to Mark Ingram

[footsteps_falco]

i can definitely understand wanting a Qb but if your option is the 3rd or 4th ranked QB, with questions about whatever, and cant start from day 1 .......... vs a heisman trophy winning, power runningback, faster then everyone in the 10 yard split, doesnt fumble, amazing hands out of the backfield, clear cut #1 ranked RB, who doesnt have personality concerns or off the field issues...... how do you not pick him?

Lock down the RB spot for 5+ years? or get a QB who may not contribute next year and unload a large contract into him and pretty much lock yourself into that guy for a few years? if we were in the top 10, or had a 2nd round pick to trade up for gabbert i'd be on board about not picking ingram, but we dont. so if this FO decides hes a safer more valued pick then a ryan mallett or jake locker, ill understand. This is not to say i wouldn't be on board for the QB pick, just that i disagree with the OP, i think ingram is definitely a good choice, someone worth locking into, someone who will contribute from day 1.

i'd also say that i think the drop off at the QB position (assuming gabbert, newton and even mallett are gone at 15..which lets face it 10 QB needy teams, 3 possibly good QBs, they could easily all go before us) is not that huge. Guys like ponder, stanzi, yates, devlin, dalton, enderle, van camp, kaepernick, you never know any of them could be there in round 3.

 

[Roonnette]

i can definitely understand wanting a Qb but if your option is the 3rd or 4th ranked QB, with questions about whatever, and cant start from day 1 .......... vs a heisman trophy winning, power runningback, faster then everyone in the 10 yard split, doesnt fumble, amazing hands out of the backfield, clear cut #1 ranked RB, who doesnt have personality concerns or off the field issues...... how do you not pick him?

You are missing the point as Namor does. The point is that the gap between 1st ranked center, guard, tackle and mid-late rounds, or some other position like TE or WR, is larger than between ingram and some later round pick.
In both instances you are picking a top talent at 15, but at one of those instances you are setting yourself up for bigger failures in later rounds.

 

[Namor]

You are missing the point as Namor does. The point is that the gap between 1st ranked center, guard, tackle and mid-late rounds, or some other position like TE or WR, is larger than between ingram and some later round pick.
In both instances you are picking a top talent at 15, but at one of those instances you are setting yourself up for bigger failures in later rounds.

Nobody is missing the ******* point!
There are idiots here saying that there are RB's just as good as Ingram in the later rounds.That's a stupid statement.
Fact.
If you want a QB...don't bargain shop..
go get the best one.
If a running back is what you want...go get the best one..Ingram....

 

[FINOMINAL]

We got the best one when we picked Jake Long, I’m glad we didn’t take a running back with that pick, and I won’t be disappointed if we take Tyron Smith this year at fifteen. These guys that give you giant boulders on your line for multiple years are worth it too. Then you can take guys that don’t necessarily make things happen with ultra rare gifts, you get guys that can run through wide open lanes. Which is pretty much anybody (even Ronnie).

 

[footsteps_falco]

You are missing the point as Namor does. The point is that the gap between 1st ranked center, guard, tackle and mid-late rounds, or some other position like TE or WR, is larger than between ingram and some later round pick.
In both instances you are picking a top talent at 15, but at one of those instances you are setting yourself up for bigger failures in later rounds.

No, I definitely understand the point. The argument is about taking a 3rd/4th ranked QB (mallett/locker) over a 1st ranked RB because his 40 time isn't sub 4.5 and because teams with good QB play have success with later round runningbacks. Because it's easier to plug a RB in from FA or grab a 3rd round RB, where a quality QB is a gem and a half.

I don't think that either argument is wrong, and i'm not really on either side. I'm just saying that I understand both sides. I also think that Ingram is a great pick for #15 as I do think mallett or even locker(maybe) are as well. I also understand that QB is more important then RB. However, I am also trying to be realistic in that none of these QB's have as good a chance of starting and contributing next year as ingram does. For a regime that a lot of people (not that i neccessarily agree with them) think need immediate contributors for their jobs, i can definitely see ingram as the smart choice for them (if those people are right)

Now, if you want to throw other positions into the mix, like TE and OLine (which most analysts have maybe 1 going in the top 15 to the cowboys) i think that is a different topic then what's being discussed. Most analysts are saying those picks (for good value) we would need to trade down into the 20-25 range, or atleast thats the concensus i'm hearing. i dont know if i agree with that, and to be quite honest my knowledge of those positions from #1-#10 ranking (oline, TE) isnt as up to par as it is for RB and QB. thus i am only commenting on the whole ingram vs mallett/locker debate. what you're bringing to the topic i really cant give an educated opinion on as i don't know much about castonzo/carimi/solder/smith/pouncey ect ect other then that i've read they are late 1st round guys and none of them are exactly shining stars.

 

[RockyMtnPhinfan]

It's widely known in this draft there is tons of depth in the RB class. There seems to be great value at this position even into the 5th round!!!
Why in the hell would we spend our 1st round pick on someone that, in the open field, looks ALOT like the last RB we drafted in the 1st round. I'm not saying i don't like the kid. He seems like an upstanding guy and has the tools to be good at the next level. But a 1st round pick IMO is insane for someone known NOT to hit the homerun in the open field.

If we draft him at 15 i will NOT do a dance. There are 10-12 guys in this class that look like they can contribute as much if not more than Ingram.[/QUOTE]

This post is just stupid...plain and simple.

Stop bargain shopping...
IF you want a RB go get Mark.
IF you want a QB, go get the best one.
Stop saying STUPID crap ,like ,well we
can get the same value in later rounds.
NO YOU CAN'T!!!

Maybe with your insight you should call up the phins and see if you can get a position for this draft.

Take it easy buddy we are in the same corner.

 

[Roonnette]

Nobody is missing the ******* point!
There are idiots here saying that there are RB's just as good as Ingram in the later rounds.That's a stupid statement.
Fact.
If you want a QB...don't bargain shop..
go get the best one.
If a running back is what you want...go get the best one..Ingram....

You keep avoiding the point. Let's say you get "the best" RB, Ingram, then who are you going to get for QB, C, G, T, OLB, later, in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th round?

 

[RockyMtnPhinfan]

Nobody is missing the ******* point!
There are idiots here saying that there are RB's just as good as Ingram in the later rounds.That's a stupid statement.
Fact.
If you want a QB...don't bargain shop..
go get the best one.
If a running back is what you want...go get the best one..Ingram....

When you are talking about projections into the future no one knows how it is going to go. Therefore there are no facts. You enjoy being inflammatory that's for sure. Name calling is for kids, and it isn't impressing anyone that you can call people idiots. Sometimes those things come back to bite you in a big way.
One example, the leading rusher for the Texans Arian Foster, went undrafted out of Tennessee didn't he?
After next year, when some undrafted kid does better than Ingram in this draft class i am going to quote your post for you. Feel free to do the same for me.

 

[Namor]

Maybe with your insight you should call up the phins and see if you can get a position for this draft.

Take it easy buddy we are in the same corner.

It's got nothing to do with the "who" we draft,but the "why".
If the front office has said "we are targeting a new RB....get the one that is
head and shoulders above all the other backs.There are not 3 other backs close
to Mark's overall talent in this draft.
Get the one great player,not a few average players and some camp fodder.

 

[Namor]

You keep avoiding the point. Let's say you get "the best" RB, Ingram, then who are you going to get for QB, C, G, T, OLB, later, in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th round?

How many playoff games have we won going the quantity route?

 

[Kdawg954]

You keep avoiding the point. Let's say you get "the best" RB, Ingram, then who are you going to get for QB, C, G, T, OLB, later, in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th round?

It isn't even getting the best RB that is the point . . . it is about getting the best player . . . and in this case, Ingram looks to be the BPA on the board and he fills a big need. You have to use judgement . . . like if Cam Jordan is ranked the BPA on the board and Ingram is number 2 . . . I still would take Ingram because we have tons of DLine depth and we need a RB. Now if by some strange reason Prince falls to 14 and is ranked the best player, I would lean towards Prince because of the depth at RB in this draft and Prince being an elite CB prospect and though we are young and upcomming at CB, there is room for improvement. Hell we play in a division where we see Tom Brady twice a year, another quality CB doesn't hurt at all. I am not reaching for an interior lineman, even if he is the best rated because we need OLine . . . first off he wouldn't play LT, so right away any lineman's value is going to decrease for this team. Long/Carey are both signed, whatever we think of Carey is besides the point, we don't know what the front office thinks and he is much better than what many give him credit for. I'm not reaching for a WR not named Jones/Green because I seriously doubt we have any guys ranked that high . . . and none deserve to be ranked that high. No TE's worth reaching for . . . OLB . . . once again if Von Miller drops to 15, an elite prospect, yea I take him over Ingram, but we are very straight with Misi and Wake. I'm not placing an Aldon Smith, a DE convert or any of these other guys over Ingram. Ingram is polished and fills a legitimate hole.

If Miami goes into this draft worrying about drafting for need early and settling for deep positions later, they will never get the ship turned around. QB is the ONLY position that is an acceptable reach at #15, and Miami needs to be comfortable with that person. A guy like Mallet with all the talent in the world, yes, but I HIGHLY doubt the Dolphins are comfortable with him . . . is his talent worth the potential risks invovled? He is rated as a 2nd rounder by many, but if Miami drafts him at 15, that means they are comfortable with him and I'm cool with the Fins pasisng up Ingram for Mallet, or Locker, or any of these guys. I'm also cool if they take Ingram over those guys because all of these QB's have their issues and being more than likely on a short lease and with the lockout looming, a first round QB probably won't have the impact a guy like Ingram would.

There is no real science to the draft, but you can't say "we shouldn't take Ingram" because Green Bay doesn't have a drafted RB, or because of Arian Foster was undrafted . . . that IMO is a dumb philosophy (not saying u said this but just putting it out there) . . . you take Ingram because he is the BPA and fills a HUGE need on this team. He steps in, is a 3 down back, offensive playmaker and a starter from day 1 meaning he fills a need. . . I mean can you hit a bigger homerun with the first pick? Not too many guys have that kind of value for the Fins at 15.

I'm not assuming any trade downs until it happens, if we trade down, so be it . . . but anybody who would be "disappointed" with the Ingram pick needs to reevaluate the Miami Dolphins, the situation this regime is in and look at the selection again . . . and stop worrying about the next team and what they did.

 

[Namor]

It isn't even getting the best RB that is the point . . . it is about getting the best player . . . and in this case, Ingram looks to be the BPA on the board and he fills a big need. You have to use judgement . . . like if Cam Jordan is ranked the BPA on the board and Ingram is number 2 . . . I still would take Ingram because we have tons of DLine depth and we need a RB. Now if by some strange reason Prince falls to 14 and is ranked the best player, I would lean towards Prince because of the depth at RB in this draft and Prince being an elite CB prospect and though we are young and upcomming at CB, there is room for improvement. Hell we play in a division where we see Tom Brady twice a year, another quality CB doesn't hurt at all. I am not reaching for an interior lineman, even if he is the best rated because we need OLine . . . first off he wouldn't play LT, so right away any lineman's value is going to decrease for this team. Long/Carey are both signed, whatever we think of Carey is besides the point, we don't know what the front office thinks and he is much better than what many give him credit for. I'm not reaching for a WR not named Jones/Green because I seriously doubt we have any guys ranked that high . . . and none deserve to be ranked that high. No TE's worth reaching for . . . OLB . . . once again if Von Miller drops to 15, an elite prospect, yea I take him over Ingram, but we are very straight with Misi and Wake. I'm not placing an Aldon Smith, a DE convert or any of these other guys over Ingram. Ingram is polished and fills a legitimate hole.

If Miami goes into this draft worrying about drafting for need early and settling for deep positions later, they will never get the ship turned around. QB is the ONLY position that is an acceptable reach at #15, and Miami needs to be comfortable with that person. A guy like Mallet with all the talent in the world, yes, but I HIGHLY doubt the Dolphins are comfortable with him . . . is his talent worth the potential risks invovled? He is rated as a 2nd rounder by many, but if Miami drafts him at 15, that means they are comfortable with him and I'm cool with the Fins pasisng up Ingram for Mallet, or Locker, or any of these guys. I'm also cool if they take Ingram over those guys because all of these QB's have their issues and being more than likely on a short lease and with the lockout looming, a first round QB probably won't have the impact a guy like Ingram would.

There is no real science to the draft, but you can't say "we shouldn't take Ingram" because Green Bay doesn't have a drafted RB, or because of Arian Foster was undrafted . . . that IMO is a dumb philosophy (not saying u said this but just putting it out there) . . . you take Ingram because he is the BPA and fills a HUGE need on this team. He steps in, is a 3 down back, offensive playmaker and a starter from day 1 meaning he fills a need. . . I mean can you hit a bigger homerun with the first pick? Not to many guys have that kind of value for the Fins at 15.

I'm not assuming any trade downs until it happens, if we trade down, so be it . . . but anybody who would be "disappointed" with the Ingram pick needs to reevaluate the Miami Dolphins, the situation this regime is in and look at the selection again.

Thank you....get known playmakers and not HOPE on lower round projects to come thru.

 

[Namor]

When you are talking about projections into the future no one knows how it is going to go. Therefore there are no facts. You enjoy being inflammatory that's for sure. Name calling is for kids, and it isn't impressing anyone that you can call people idiots. Sometimes those things come back to bite you in a big way.
One example, the leading rusher for the Texans Arian Foster, went undrafted out of Tennessee didn't he?
After next year, when some undrafted kid does better than Ingram in this draft class i am going to quote your post for you. Feel free to do the same for me.

I'll apologize then...I don't mean you are a idiot...I just find the notion that they are 10 to 12 backs in THIS draft as talented as Mark is just...well...you get
the picture.

 

[Kdawg954]

One example, the leading rusher for the Texans Arian Foster, went undrafted out of Tennessee didn't he?
After next year, when some undrafted kid does better than Ingram in this draft class i am going to quote your post for you. Feel free to do the same for me.

Depends on what you classify as better and how that same back would be an improvement on our team. Arian Foster ran out of Gary Kubiak's system in Houston . . . a system that is widely known to produce no name RB's. Denver went through the likes of Mike Anderson, Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Tatum Bell, Ruben Droughns . . . Where are those RB's at now? Did any of them do anything outside of that system? The only "high profile" RB they drafted was Portis and ironically he is the only one to do anything major outside of that system on another team.

The real good running backs have success anywhere they go . . . Ingram IMO is a real good RB, hell I think he is a "special" RB and will be a gem for any team that drafts him. Nobody in this draft class has the skill set this guy has and did it on the level he did it on.

 

[RockyMtnPhinfan]

I'll apologize then...I don't mean you are a idiot...I just find the notion that they are 10 to 12 backs in THIS draft as talented as Mark is just...well...you get
the picture.

This draft is packed with RB and Defensive line talent. That is my point. I just don't believe that Ingram is going to be our savior. I believe that type of player is a QB, and therefore i think that's what we should draft at 15. If we draft a QB at 15 i think we can find fine RB talent in the later rounds. I understand and partially agree with no bargain hunting for Qb's OR Rb's but you are going to have to bargain hunt for one or the other, as we only have a first rounder and no second to speak of at this point. If our team goes on a bargain hunt i would rather it be at the RB position.

I'm not going to boo out loud if we end up drafting him. I'm a game**** fan (SEC) and understand the recent history of Ingram. So it's not that i am anti Mark Ingram as much as i am pro -draft a QB in round one.