hoops
Tua time!
workouts and full contact two different things...i'd say odds he's a full go come training camp 50/50
Slimm's 2013 Position Rankings
- Thread starter Pachyderm_Wave
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workouts and full contact two different things...i'd say odds he's a full go come training camp 50/50
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I've heard a number assigned to where he is with his rehab saying he's about 1 month ahead of where you would normally expect a guy to be. The fact that he'll be able to hold a workout in April is testament to that.
I'd say he's probably on about Ryan Broyles' timeline rather than Jonas Gray's. Broyles was playing by Week 3 and taking a heavy workload by Week 7. The only thing that prevented him from taking a total of about 600 to 650 snaps this year (which is where he was trending) is the fact that he tore his OTHER ACL (real bad luck, there).
So I would think that would be a valid estimate for Tank Carradine...600 to 700 snaps in his rookie season. That's plenty. That's 1st round plenty.
I'd say he's probably on about Ryan Broyles' timeline rather than Jonas Gray's. Broyles was playing by Week 3 and taking a heavy workload by Week 7. The only thing that prevented him from taking a total of about 600 to 650 snaps this year (which is where he was trending) is the fact that he tore his OTHER ACL (real bad luck, there).
So I would think that would be a valid estimate for Tank Carradine...600 to 700 snaps in his rookie season. That's plenty. That's 1st round plenty.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
And there's no denying that Carradine went against better tackles than Werner. Carradine played against left tackles while Werner played against right tackles. Carradine faced Xavier Nixon. Werner faced Cornell Green. There's a difference.
On the other hand, there's also no denying that Carradine was allowed by the scheme and the position responsibilities to get after the passer more freely than Werner.
One of the reasons I've got such a crush on Devin Taylor post-Shrine week is I saw him playing consistently on the right side with streamlined responsibilities and less hesitation, and he was an absolute beast. I think he'll be better in Miami as a right end than he was as a college left end.
When I've seen Werner flip over to that side, I've seen him rush the passer even better than he did at left end.
On the other hand, there's also no denying that Carradine was allowed by the scheme and the position responsibilities to get after the passer more freely than Werner.
One of the reasons I've got such a crush on Devin Taylor post-Shrine week is I saw him playing consistently on the right side with streamlined responsibilities and less hesitation, and he was an absolute beast. I think he'll be better in Miami as a right end than he was as a college left end.
When I've seen Werner flip over to that side, I've seen him rush the passer even better than he did at left end.
Totally agree. I've watched a lot of tape on Werner and when he flanked wide against right tackles in pure rush mode or rushed against left tackles, he did very well. But many times against right tackles he would line up just outside their shoulder and take them on, watching for the zone read plays or runs, keep the tackle at arms length. Against the left tackles, he would just blow right upfield and not worry about contain as much.....Carradine would do the same.
Haha....well if you ever pursue that job, you come find me. I'm in. I've been trying to find my way into the business for years.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Yeah that's kind of how I see it. I don't know it that's inaccurate or whatever, everyone seems to see thngs differently anyway. But that's how I see it.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
One guy Slimm whom I feel deserves to be ranked on your QB position ranking is Peter Lalich of California (PA).
1. Extremely high QB recruit out of high school, committed to UVA under Al Groh, played well there as a true freshman
2. Caught underage possession of alcohol and put on probation. During probation admitted to his probation office that he'd taken a drink, had to appear before the judge. The judge appreciated his honesty and let him off with a warning, maintained his probation. But UVA admins were in a waged war with Al Groh whom they were trying to force out, so they took aim at Lalich and dismissed him from the program on the same day as his appearance before the judge.
3. Went off to Mike Riley's Oregon State Beavers with the understanding he was on a short leash. He redshirted. But then he was caught out on his boat on the local lake (now over 21) and he had alcohol in his possession and he was charged with operating a boat while under the influence. The charges were dropped. However the damage was done. His 3 game suspension would've ensured he lost the QB competition. Already on a short leash, Riley pulled his scholarship.
4. Went to Cal-PA and the first thing the coach there did was have him go to a alcoholic rehab hospital to be evaluated. He did so purely because of the three incidents all having alcohol as a common denominator. He was given a very positive evaluation from the staff that he wasn't actually an alcoholic. Played really well at Cal-PA.
5. Is 6'6" and 235 lbs playing weight. Moves well. Cannon arm. Good touch. Accuracy. But most importantly every coach he's come in contact with from high school to UVA to Cal-PA refers to how incredibly smart he is in a football sense. His high school coach said the one thing that always stood out with him is how he knows exactly how to hurt defenses. You'd have thought with a 6'6" big boy with rocket arm like that, something different would've stood out. Coaches at UVA and Cal-PA use words like "football savant" and "a real life Will Hunting" to describe him. That includes Chicago Bears WR Coach Mike Groh.
6. As a close friend of Kevin Ogletree of the Dallas Cowboys, during the lockout Ogletree brought Peter to team workouts to throw to Cowboys wide receivers.
7. Some quotes:
8. On tape what stood out to me about his passing at Virginia (there are three YouTube videos that contain every pass he threw at Virginia as a true freshman) was his decision making. Obviously there's orthodox talent there in his size and arm strength. But it was his safe decision making that really stood out to me for a true freshman that was in high school only a year ago. Sometimes the accuracy was a little adventurous and sometimes he'd get pressured heavily and that would break him down some, things you expect for a young guy. At Cal-PA I think he continued to develop that sense for how to hurt defenses, what defenses can and can't get away with, and he made great decisions and really dominated.
9. Videos:
This is a highlight film of his 2012 throwing at Cal-PA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-LI7g2mTf68
This is a key play, in a key moment, in a key game...came through huge. It's in the above highlight tape but I just wanted to draw attention to the situation in which he did this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sZzxvgw_Mlg#t=124s
This is the series of every throw he made at UVA as a true freshman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPhKr2Kim0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXX_VGiLZe8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOIYRM9Qo3U
1. Extremely high QB recruit out of high school, committed to UVA under Al Groh, played well there as a true freshman
2. Caught underage possession of alcohol and put on probation. During probation admitted to his probation office that he'd taken a drink, had to appear before the judge. The judge appreciated his honesty and let him off with a warning, maintained his probation. But UVA admins were in a waged war with Al Groh whom they were trying to force out, so they took aim at Lalich and dismissed him from the program on the same day as his appearance before the judge.
3. Went off to Mike Riley's Oregon State Beavers with the understanding he was on a short leash. He redshirted. But then he was caught out on his boat on the local lake (now over 21) and he had alcohol in his possession and he was charged with operating a boat while under the influence. The charges were dropped. However the damage was done. His 3 game suspension would've ensured he lost the QB competition. Already on a short leash, Riley pulled his scholarship.
4. Went to Cal-PA and the first thing the coach there did was have him go to a alcoholic rehab hospital to be evaluated. He did so purely because of the three incidents all having alcohol as a common denominator. He was given a very positive evaluation from the staff that he wasn't actually an alcoholic. Played really well at Cal-PA.
5. Is 6'6" and 235 lbs playing weight. Moves well. Cannon arm. Good touch. Accuracy. But most importantly every coach he's come in contact with from high school to UVA to Cal-PA refers to how incredibly smart he is in a football sense. His high school coach said the one thing that always stood out with him is how he knows exactly how to hurt defenses. You'd have thought with a 6'6" big boy with rocket arm like that, something different would've stood out. Coaches at UVA and Cal-PA use words like "football savant" and "a real life Will Hunting" to describe him. That includes Chicago Bears WR Coach Mike Groh.
6. As a close friend of Kevin Ogletree of the Dallas Cowboys, during the lockout Ogletree brought Peter to team workouts to throw to Cowboys wide receivers.
7. Some quotes:
Pete Lalich said:
Pete Lalich said:
Pete Lalich said:
Cal (PA) Head Coach Mike Kellar said:
Cal (PA) Head Coach Mike Kellar said:
Anonymous NFL Scout said:
Mike Brown said:
Pete Lalich said:
8. On tape what stood out to me about his passing at Virginia (there are three YouTube videos that contain every pass he threw at Virginia as a true freshman) was his decision making. Obviously there's orthodox talent there in his size and arm strength. But it was his safe decision making that really stood out to me for a true freshman that was in high school only a year ago. Sometimes the accuracy was a little adventurous and sometimes he'd get pressured heavily and that would break him down some, things you expect for a young guy. At Cal-PA I think he continued to develop that sense for how to hurt defenses, what defenses can and can't get away with, and he made great decisions and really dominated.
9. Videos:
This is a highlight film of his 2012 throwing at Cal-PA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-LI7g2mTf68
This is a key play, in a key moment, in a key game...came through huge. It's in the above highlight tape but I just wanted to draw attention to the situation in which he did this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sZzxvgw_Mlg#t=124s
This is the series of every throw he made at UVA as a true freshman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPhKr2Kim0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXX_VGiLZe8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOIYRM9Qo3U
Pachyderm_Wave
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I remember Lalich when he played at UVA and his subsequent dismissal from the program. I'm not surprised that Mike Groh would have glowing remarks because he recruited him to Virginia.
I also have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike Riley and the way he coaches his players at Oregon St. He's a no nonsense guy that always has his kids playing a physical and disciplined brand of football, which stands out on the west coast. He's an Alabama guy and played under Bear Bryant when I was a kid. He's actually Major Ogilvie's cousin if I'm not mistaken. In other words, Lalich's dismissals from two programs can't be glossed over.
I've watched a good amount of Cal-PA games over the last few years scouting various talented prospects that ended up there for reasons similar to Lalich. If the quote by the anonymous scout is indeed a genuine quote, it certainly validates the reality of how weak this QB class is. There's no depth, and only the top two have flaws that aren't fatal.
A team may be willing to take a chance on Lalich late in the draft, especially due to the overall weakness of this year's QB class despite his advanced age and history of alcohol related incidents that get him removed from campuses on both coasts. The best I could do for him is UDFA status, in which case there's probably 2 or 3 other QB's that I would take a chance on before Lalich. The only one I would view as a priority in that department is the one I listed, Jordan Rodgers.
That's just the way I feel about it.
I also have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike Riley and the way he coaches his players at Oregon St. He's a no nonsense guy that always has his kids playing a physical and disciplined brand of football, which stands out on the west coast. He's an Alabama guy and played under Bear Bryant when I was a kid. He's actually Major Ogilvie's cousin if I'm not mistaken. In other words, Lalich's dismissals from two programs can't be glossed over.
I've watched a good amount of Cal-PA games over the last few years scouting various talented prospects that ended up there for reasons similar to Lalich. If the quote by the anonymous scout is indeed a genuine quote, it certainly validates the reality of how weak this QB class is. There's no depth, and only the top two have flaws that aren't fatal.
A team may be willing to take a chance on Lalich late in the draft, especially due to the overall weakness of this year's QB class despite his advanced age and history of alcohol related incidents that get him removed from campuses on both coasts. The best I could do for him is UDFA status, in which case there's probably 2 or 3 other QB's that I would take a chance on before Lalich. The only one I would view as a priority in that department is the one I listed, Jordan Rodgers.
That's just the way I feel about it.
---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------
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way too low on Keenan Allen, and Ryan Swope
In terms of disagreement, I find most of mine comes with the big board - as opposed to the positional rankings. Not to say that I agree with every single ranking (that'd be weird). For instance, I have Wheaton ahead of Bailey, but I recognize that there are things Bailey does better, and I like both a lot. In terms of positional rankings, Duke Williams is the guy who stands out as being rated much lower than I have him. He has some off-field concerns. How big a factor were those concerns when you ranked him? As a player, I have him about as good as any Safety prospect in the class. His game reminds me a little of Troy Polamalu. Rare to find that combination of speed and quickness in a Safety - even if he is a little undersized. I'd love to get him in the 3rd or 4th, and Safety is a position I was "content enough" with for Miami. I don't think it MUST be upgraded like WR, CB, LG, DE, so going into the draft, I preferred to allocate our resources elsewhere. My only concern with him for Miami is that he's kind of the antithesis of Clemons - in that he's more prone to make plays, but also more prone to stick his nose in, when he should be staying deep. But Coyle has a good history with Safeties, and ideally, I think he'd like the SS and FS to be more-or-less interchangeable. Williams and Jones play a similar game, I feel; they just get it done in different ways.
And if it's not obvious by my previous statements, this thread is awesome, and I - like many others - look forward to these. They're gold for dabblers like myself.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I've spent a lot of time talking about Kayvon Webster and now it seems like he's getting some love from other people. But another guy on USF that deserves a little bit of love is TE Evan Landi. He's not going to impress you in shorts and a t-shirt too much but on the football field he's a very fluid athlete with wide receiver-like skills, especially hands. The biggest thing he needs to work on is in the weight room, getting more cut up and packing on good weight, trying to get more explosive, etc. I've not heard he's got a bad weight room work ethic by any means but he could certainly do better than 13 bench reps and his body's not as cut up as some guys. He's a former QB and at one point was the team's backup there. He moved to WR and played that position before he was moved to TE and I think he's been shuffled around so much with so many different position requirements and priorities it wouldn't shock me if he just hasn't quite "got it" yet as far as what he needs to do in the weight room to be a tight end in the NFL. But you can learn that.
Put it this way if 3 years down the road we're thinking of Evan Landi the way we do Tom Crabtree, I won't be surprised. That should get him invited to a camp and kept around a little bit. Really excellent hands, smart football player.
Put it this way if 3 years down the road we're thinking of Evan Landi the way we do Tom Crabtree, I won't be surprised. That should get him invited to a camp and kept around a little bit. Really excellent hands, smart football player.