Smith versus Waddle | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Smith versus Waddle

j-off-her-doll said:
It doesn't matter how good the blocking is if the WR's don't separate and catch the ball. The correct approach is to invest the necessary resources to make the OL good enough, because it must be good enough. If you can only do that by spending premium picks/money, then you have to do it, but the difference between good enough and great is not significant. You start hitting the law of diminishing returns.

If you could pick one position to be elite (after QB), it's WR (and TE - but there are far fewer elite TE's). OL must play well enough to set up the QB and WR's to succeed, but it's the QB's and WR's that are making the plays.

The hit rate on 1st RD WR's isn't as high as 1st RD OL, but there are ways to filter out players more likely to bust, and when you hit on them, they raise the ceiling of your team much more than OL do.
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Completely agree.

I do not want to have the best OL in the League, but I would like it to be in the upper quarter of the League.

As for WR you do not need a group of dynamic play makers but you do need to have one and right now the fins don't have that guy.

And RB we have been over many times, build the OL and all you need is solid B+ talent at RB.

Protect Tua and give him weapons to exploit his talent, pretty simple really.
 
I give Waddle the edge if he checks out, opens the offense for other players can be used in both the offense and special teams, will draw a lot of attention...there's no substitute for speed in the right hands.

I also like them both and wouldn't be disapointed with either, ask Tua which one he prefers.
 
Smith for me...I would even take him over Chase.

Smith and Tua could both almost close their eyes, and still know what the other would do.
 
I think Smith will go top 5 unless something weird happens in the last few games remaining.
 
The Ghost said:
No, the contrary, give him more time to throw and a rushing attack. Having a super talented WR isn’t as special as people think, that’s why the elite ones don’t have rings.

Finding the right guys for your system is a lot more important than finding a guy with elite height/weight/speed. That’s why Jarvis Landry is a better football player than Odell Beckham.

No one has ever had too many OL.
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Would you rather face the chiefs this week without Tyrek Hill or Eric Fisher?

The cowboys assembled an all world oline and its gotten them exactly zero playoff wins. Im not saying oline isnt important. With the right QB and weapons it just doesnt need to be a dumpster fire like we have had the past 5-6 years. Give me an average oline with Tua and weapons and we will be in good shape. If we slip up and have a top ten oline, thats great but I dont think we have to build a fortress.
 
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Rowdy1972 said:
Would you rather face the chiefs this week without Tyrek Hill or Eric Fisher?

The cowboys assembled an all world oline and its gotten them exactly zero playoff wins. Im not saying oline isnt important. With the right QB and weapons it just doesnt need to be a dumpster fire like we have had the past 5-6 years. Give me an average oline with Tua and weapons and we will be in good shape. If we slip up and have a top ten oline, thats great but I dont think we have to build a fortress.
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I hear what your saying, Hill vs. Fisher isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison as Tyreek is the most dangerous player in the NFL and Fisher hasn't lived up to the billing of a No.1 overall pick.

If you want to compare two apples on a more even level, I'd much rather have Joe Thomas than Julio Jones.

Also your point about Dallas isn't that accurate. Dallas was trending towards having a dominant offense a few years back before Tyron Smith's and Travis Frederick's health issues derailed their careers. If anything, their current state shows exactly why they needed that OL they used to have.
 
I don't see a WR going in the top 5.

You have 4 QB's vying for top 10 status, plus Sewell and Parsons. As well as Surtain and Farley at CB.

That is likely 8 of the Top 10 and if you add in Rousseau/Paye and Pitts that makes it even more crowded.

Not to mention that Chase is probably still the #1 WR.

I think it is more likely that Chase is the 1st WR off the board with him being the only top 10 WR.

Which would be good for Miami.

Although a very early run on WR could push a defensive stud down to the Fins.
 
j-off-her-doll said:


Of the teams currently ahead of Miami, only the Eagles seem reasonably likely to consider WR. You never know, but Miami could be in a good spot to land their top choice with Houston's pick.
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My guess is Lawrence, Fields, Sewell and Parsons are the first 4 picks.
 
jimthefin said:
Looking back at WR's taken in the Top 10 the last decade or so is very, very sobering.

YIKES!!!!!!

https://arizonasports.com/story/2295499/the-5-last-nfl-drafts-wide-receivers-selected-top-10/

IF I am dead set on going WR then i am moving down a bit from Houston's pick.
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Here, here.

I've been tracking 1st round WR history for quite awhile that's why I'm usually so staunch against it. The return on investment is just so rarely worth it.

When you consider the caliber of WR's that go late first/second, it's not much different than the athletic freaks who go early. There just isn't that much that separates good WR's from average WR's because the position relies so much on the QB and OL to do their jobs first. Plus given the fact that so many WR's play each week for a team, finding mismatches and exploiting defenses are so much more valuable than a guy who has a 44" vertical.

Look at the Seahawks, with those stud WR's, going no where and trending in the wrong direction. When they were about defense and a running game, they were dominant with Golden Tate as their top WR.

You look at Ben Roethlisberger and Hines Ward.

You look at Tom Brady and Julian Edelman, Deion Branch, Troy Brown....etc

You look at Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings.

You look at Eli Manning and Plaxico Burress.

You look at Drew Brees and Marquise Colston.

You look at Nick Foles and Alshon Jeffrey (who's extension was the first nail in their post SB coffin).

You look at Peyton Manning and a late in his career Demaryius Thomas.

Deion Branch, Hines Ward and Julian Edelman each have a Super Bowl MVP in their trophy case.

Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Deandre Hopkins, Odell Beckham, Mike Evans, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald have zero combined rings and are collectively 0-5 in Super bowls. Some of that is just a matter of circumstance. TO was the only reason the Eagles even hung around with the Patriots in 04. I'm sure you can extract a lot of names from any specific position and make the same case as I did with all these talented WR's, but these are the best of the best over the last 15 years.

You look at Randy Moss's stats in the regular season with New England and then the post season, it's jaw dropping.

Only Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne come to mind as elite WR's that helped bring a title to Indy. To which I would say, ya but they should've had more than 1 title.

The Colts couldn't get to Brady and they didn't have an answer for Ty Law. Same exact scenario with the Rams in 2000 with Holt and Bruce. They won that one title, but it feels like a disappointment looking back.

How different are the Arizona Cardinals with Deandre Hopkins this year? Not much!

How different are the Tennessee Titans without LT Taylor Lewan? They started losing the second he left the field.

Where was Julio Jones when the Falcons needed that one play? Ok, well he made that one play (despite Eric Rowe's perfect coverage) but when they needed to keep the ball moving, they couldn't.

There's always exceptions to the rule so I'd never be closed minded about any position but in general when your building a team, you have to prioritize what you think is important. For me, that's not WR.
 
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j-off-her-doll said:


Of the teams currently ahead of Miami, only the Eagles seem reasonably likely to consider WR. You never know, but Miami could be in a good spot to land their top choice with Houston's pick.
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The Eagles are an absolute disaster right now. They need OL above all else but it doesn't appear that's going to help them in the first this year. Sewell should be the first non-QB taken so it's unlikely they get a shot at him. They have a lot of questions to answer from top to bottom before anyone has any idea where they are heading.

Word is Doug Pederson wants out. Fact of the matter is Howie Roseman is the worst drafter in the NFL, he needs to go ASAP. Who knows whats going to happen with Wentz and his monstrous cap hit.

Eagles have above average talent at RB (Sanders) and TE (Goedert) already, drafted Raegor last year, if they think adding another WR is going to fix the OL, DL and secondary issues, great for me, I don't like the team being somewhat of a local.
 
The Ghost said:
If you want to compare two apples on a more even level, I'd much rather have Joe Thomas than Julio Jones.
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Worked out great for Cleveland during Joe's 11 years. They went 48-128 in that span.

The Falcons have won 2 Division Titles, made the playoffs 4 times, and played in a superbowl during Julio's time.

All this after the Falcons literally traded all their picks to the Browns in order to trade up and draft Julio.
 
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