So... we'll be about 23M over the cap. How do we address this? | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

So... we'll be about 23M over the cap. How do we address this?

Honeybadger08 said:
Hill refused to restructure his Chiefs contract. What makes you think he will now restructure his Dolphins contract?

arrowheadaddict.com

Tyreek Hill turns down restructured contract for K.C. Chiefs

K.C. Chiefs wide receiver Tyreek Hill has declined a request from the team to join fellow star players in restructuring his contract this offseason.
arrowheadaddict.com arrowheadaddict.com
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Feverdream said:
What most people don't want to acknowledge is that we went all-in... this year.
Chubb and Hill cost us a great deal, both in money, and in picks... if we then choose to restructure these guys, it gets even worse.
You can't, CANT do this two or three years in a row without causing the complete tear down.
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That’s not entirely true. You don’t do it with the same guys numerous times but you can do it to others.

With a player like Hill, I don’t worry because he’ll be at a high level for several more years and then they can offer to extend him again and prorate his signing bonus over more years and reduce his cap number. The worrisome guys are players that have significantly declining skills so you kind of want to cut them. That’s where you want to be careful.

Two things to remember - the cap is going to keep going up and Miami will always have players coming off the books or that they can cut without big pain. If you keep yourself flexible that way with staggered contracts, you can finagle around the cap problems.

I don’t see any issues for them in the next two years at least. For this off-season, they could easily add two or three more high-end UFAs if they wanted to because they can minimize their cap hits in year one with bonuses.

They are the in win now mode but they can do it without completely mortgaging any future and keep their young players when they come due.
 
What about void years? Do teams have to get the ok by the player and agent if they want to add void years to a restructured contract? I believe they do. I believe Eric Fisher is currently a FA but he is showing up on the Dolphins roster on Over the Cap until I believe 2026. It says signing bonus but he is no longer under contract. Are those void years?
 
Andyman said:
That’s not entirely true. You don’t do it with the same guys numerous times but you can do it to others.

With a player like Hill, I don’t worry because he’ll be at a high level for several more years and then they can offer to extend him again and prorate his signing bonus over more years and reduce his cap number. The worrisome guys are players that have significantly declining skills so you kind of want to cut them. That’s where you want to be careful.

Two things to remember - the cap is going to keep going up and Miami will always have players coming off the books or that they can cut without big pain. If you keep yourself flexible that way with staggered contracts, you can finagle around the cap problems.

I don’t see any issues for them in the next two years at least. For this off-season, they could easily add two or three more high-end UFAs if they wanted to because they can minimize their cap hits in year one with bonuses.

They are the in win now mode but they can do it without completely mortgaging any future and keep their young players when they come due.
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...and this is exactly what they thought about Byron Jones. It didn't work so well. They said, heck, he's only 29, we'll just convert his salary to bonus, and hide the hit in void years.
...and they thought it with X who now has 30M in overhanging bonus money and a 15M annual salary.

And both gave us nothing in 2023.

This is NOT the way to go.

It is so much better to pay players on an as-you-go basis, like with Ogbah's contract. Guaranteed salary and he's a painless cut in 2024. The Armstead and Chubb contracts are both written like this. We could dump them easily in the event of a career-ender.
 
Honeybadger08 said:
What about void years? Do teams have to get the ok by the player and agent if they want to add void years to a restructured contract? I believe they do. I believe Eric Fisher is currently a FA but he is showing up on the Dolphins roster on Over the Cap until I believe 2026. It says signing bonus but he is no longer under contract. Are those void years?
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I'm a little fuzzy on this one. I think the player has to agree to void years through signing a contract. But I could be wrong here.

In past years, the option to convert salary to bonus has not required consent.
 
Andyman said:
That’s not entirely true. You don’t do it with the same guys numerous times but you can do it to others.

With a player like Hill, I don’t worry because he’ll be at a high level for several more years and then they can offer to extend him again and prorate his signing bonus over more years and reduce his cap number. The worrisome guys are players that have significantly declining skills so you kind of want to cut them. That’s where you want to be careful.

Two things to remember - the cap is going to keep going up and Miami will always have players coming off the books or that they can cut without big pain. If you keep yourself flexible that way with staggered contracts, you can finagle around the cap problems.

I don’t see any issues for them in the next two years at least. For this off-season, they could easily add two or three more high-end UFAs if they wanted to because they can minimize their cap hits in year one with bonuses.

They are the in win now mode but they can do it without completely mortgaging any future and keep their young players when they come due.
Click to expand...
I believe with Hill, there are greater risks associated with him.. He will be 29 in March and in the next few years if he should happen to loose his explosiveness and speed or tear a achilles, he will be useless to the team and they will still have his contract on the books. Just look at Julio Jones, he is 33 and turning 34 in February. He is nowhere near the same player he was in his late 20’s. His production began to fall off as he turned 30.
 
Feverdream said:
...and this is exactly what they thought about Byron Jones. It didn't work so well. They said, heck, he's only 29, we'll just convert his salary to bonus, and hide the hit in void years.
...and they thought it with X who now has 30M in overhanging bonus money and a 15M annual salary.

And both gave us nothing in 2023.

This is NOT the way to go.

It is so much better to pay players on an as-you-go basis, like with Ogbah's contract. Guaranteed salary and he's a painless cut in 2024. The Armstead and Chubb contracts are both written like this. We could dump them easily in the event of a career-ender.
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Yeah but this is a case of you win some and lose some and about leverage. They gave into X because he was an All Pro at a premium position.

With Jones I don’t really see the issue because his cap hit while a stinger still saves them money by cutting him. It’s a one year pain as I doubt they use the post June 1 designation.

You’re spot on with those other contracts though and you need that flexibility throughout the roster.
 
Honeybadger08 said:
I believe with Hill, there are greater risks associated with him.. He will be 29 in March and in the next few years if he should happen to loose his explosiveness and speed or tear a achilles, he will be useless to the team and they will still have his contract on the books. Just look at Julio Jones, he is 33 and turning 34 in February. He is nowhere near the same player he was in his late 20’s. His production began to fall off as he turned 30.
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Ok but a bad injury can happen to anyone. Sure, there’s risk but I’m going to be ok with Hill even losing a bit of speed or juke. He has so much it’s absurd. Guys like Julio are long striders and don’t seem to age as well but he was great through his year 30 season till he got hurt.

There are plenty of examples of WRs who were great well into their 30s and I think Hill is worth the risk. I wouldn’t do it with all players but he’s special.
 
Andyman said:
Yeah but this is a case of you win some and lose some and about leverage. They gave into X because he was an All Pro at a premium position.

With Jones I don’t really see the issue because his cap hit while a stinger still saves them money by cutting him. It’s a one year pain as I doubt they use the post June 1 designation.

You’re spot on with those other contracts though and you need that flexibility throughout the roster.
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Cutting Byron pre-June 1st would create 3.5M in space for 2023, space that we'd have to spend on his replacement more than likely... Just using my general figure of 1M for a street free agent, means we'd gain a mere 2.5 by cutting him, and honestly, I'd prefer this to the post June 1st cut that would be a loan against 2024.
But a healthy Byron is still my preferred choice, and we have until June 1st to see if he's ready to go, because yes... I do want to win in 2023, and a healthy Byron gets us there faster than a cut Byron and a 3.5M free agent type. (Bethel or Crossen). Boundary CBs are not cheap.

X isn't as problem for next year exactly... but if he puts up a second iffy year next year, we'll take it in the shorts. He'll have over 20M as a dead cap hit.
 
Andyman said:
Ok but a bad injury can happen to anyone. Sure, there’s risk but I’m going to be ok with Hill even losing a bit of speed or juke. He has so much it’s absurd. Guys like Julio are long striders and don’t seem to age as well but he was great through his year 30 season till he got hurt.

There are plenty of examples of WRs who were great well into their 30s and I think Hill is worth the risk. I wouldn’t do it with all players but he’s special.
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Im saying it is a risk you run signing a Wr that relies on their speed is all. Julio Jones came into the league running a 4.39 and was 6’3”. He had lost his speed at 30 and has not been the same player. Im sure you can bring up outliers who have not seen a drop-off in their ability as they reached their early 30’s but the vast majority do. As i said, its a huge risk seeing what their paying him.
 
30 is a hard limit for many positions. Obviously running back and LB tend to die first because of all the collisions, but many positions fall off badly then.
The only two positions that I usually trust past 30 are QB and Offensive Linemen.
 
Feverdream said:
Cutting Byron pre-June 1st would create 3.5M in space for 2023, space that we'd have to spend on his replacement more than likely... Just using my general figure of 1M for a street free agent, means we'd gain a mere 2.5 by cutting him, and honestly, I'd prefer this to the post June 1st cut that would be a loan against 2024.
But a healthy Byron is still my preferred choice, and we have until June 1st to see if he's ready to go, because yes... I do want to win in 2023, and a healthy Byron gets us there faster than a cut Byron and a 3.5M free agent type. (Bethel or Crossen). Boundary CBs are not cheap.

X isn't as problem for next year exactly... but if he puts up a second iffy year next year, we'll take it in the shorts. He'll have over 20M as a dead cap hit.
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Yup I hear you but it sounds like Jones is a goner. I hope it’s not the case
 
Feverdream said:
30 is a hard limit for many positions. Obviously running back and LB tend to die first because of all the collisions, but many positions fall off badly then.
The only two positions that I usually trust past 30 are QB and Offensive Linemen.
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DB's? Ronnie Lott & Darrell Green come to mind.
 
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