Something that worries me about Chris Grier

[A1.]

So when does he reign Grier in? Next year, last year or two years from now?

he’s already started reigning Grier in.

best draft in years.

and that’s part thanks to Grier for accumulating the capital in the first place.

you think the Grier/gase combo would have taken Igbo at 30? You think flores is signing offon Charles Harris at 22?

 

[NY8123]

Listen I was outspoken against Tua (based on injury alone) but Chris Grier identified his players, went and executed his plan presumably with Flores involved and now has one of, if not the youngest upstart rosters in the NFL. Whether or not you liked the picks isn't relevant here, Chris Grier executed his plan brilliantly, now it's up to the kids to stay healthy, go develop and perform to Coach Flores's plan.

He gutted the roster in 2019 and in 2020 it was replenished with young talent via FA and the draft, he grabbed what appears to everyone as a franchise QB (at least on paper), upgraded the OL, LB and Secondary and added two quality RBs and a host of complimentary players. On paper this has been a homerun off-season, you have to give him that much. Whether or not the team wins remains to be seen but there is no reason they shouldn't.

 

[andyahs]

he’s already started reigning Grier in.

best draft in years.

and that’s part thanks to Grier for accumulating the capital in the first place.

you think the Grier/gase combo would have taken Igbo at 30? You think flores is signing offon Charles Harris at 22?

Just give me a winning combo and fans won't care who gets picked or when.

 

[dolfan91]

This all falls on Ross's shoulders, for many years he allowed a failed non traditional F/O system to run the football side. Too many hands in the cookie jar and lots of backstabbing. Ross allowed buffoons like Philbin, Gase and Tannenbaum to have too much input when they weren't qualified.

Even as far back as Parcells there were instances after Ireland took over when it was thought that Sparano wanted say. You just can't have that kind of division within the ranks, picking talent.

No one knows for sure how much Say, Grier had as a GM when Tannenbaum was here. It wasn't till the year before Tannenbaum was shown the door that it was thought to be 100% Grier's show. And that was a complete disaster picking Charles Friggin Harris. Although it now seems like both Flores and Grier work extremely well with each other. They seem to be on the same page and share the same views. Something this organization needed. But like everything else, time will tell.

 

[A1.]

Just give me a winning combo and fans won't care who gets picked or when.

totally agree. What I’m saying is flores is saving grier

the way the bottom of the roster stayed churning last year, the better team yet half the talent, picks like tua and igbo. Those aren’t moves Chris Grier normally makes. Those are Brian flores moves

Grier has role And he’s valuable. But flores is carrying is doubling as more than a head coach.

I think the tandem works very well.

 

[67Stang]

Subject has been beaten to death...

Eval Grier as an executive -- including HIS HIRING of Flores

and the significant talent he added with Marvin and Reggie.

Like I said way back -- if we really hit some long balls in this draft

and we're still set for '21 --------- like WTF do you want????

My opinion. Of course.

BNF

Well it also included 2 first rounders that are no longer here....jury is still out on that one. If you look at the drafts since 2016, it has not been great by any means. 2016 Tunsil was good, not great and now gone. Howard has been good, but missed 1/4 of his time injured, Drake was decent, now gone, Grant has been meh....the rest of that draft sucked. 2017 was a sad joke...next. 2018 Fitzpatrick was good, now gone, Gesiki has been a disappointment, shown some flashes, Baker has been solid and a nice surprise, Sanders has been good. 2019, Wilkins has been a bit of a disappointment, needs help, Gaskins got some playing time.

So what I am saying, not counting this year.....in the 4 drafts 2016-2019 this is all we have to show for it (excluding draft picks from trades):
Howard, good player when actually on the field.
Grant solid contributor.
Harris and McMillian both busts to this point.
Ford, seen some playing time, made a few plays.
Gesiki disappointment so far.
Baker, good pick!
Sanders, solid kicker.
Smythe would not be on most teams
Ballage bust
Wilkins disappointment so far.
Dieter would be PS on most teams,
Gaskins (our QB was our leading rusher last year).

This is what we have to show for 4 drafts and 29 picks.

This is an issue and has been an issue for a long time.

 

[Kamelion4291]

You guys can't just talk out of both sides of your mouth. You're blaming Grier for picks when previous coaches were here, but then acting like Flores is "carrying" Grier. It's one or the other. Either Grier is picking all of those players or he's working with the coaches. For all you know Gase pounded the table for Charles Harris.

You act like the draft is this super serious thing. Andy Reid literally just asked Mahomes which RB he liked at the end of the 1st and he said Edwards-Helaire so they picked him.

 

[Ray R]

I think Brian Flores is gonna be Chris Grier’s saving grace

flores is strong where Chris Grier has a fading weakness. Personnel and evaluations. And more important just simply building a cohesive roster

flores has a scouting background and is a very good evaluator of talent. For his own system anyways

I think Grier is a good facilitator. Hes shown he can be a savy negotiator. He doesn’t really get fooled. He is conservative by nature but he doesn’t get he’s peas shucked.

I of course have no proof but I just get a sense that this roster is essentially under flores control. I don’t think there are any picks being made or talent being added that flores simply says “no way” to.

except maybe josh Rosen. There’s gonna be some situations like that where the juice is worth the squeeze even if flores doesn’t sign off.

I think flores is gonna save Chris Grier and the Miami Dolphins.

I suspect that occasionally they will both be saving each others bacon. This is the way it should be and most of the time we will never even know it happened.

 

[circumstances]

Howard, good player when actually on the field.

Xavien is pro bowl quality and one of the best corners in the league when he's healthy.

Grant solid contributor.

Harris and McMillian both busts to this point.

Raekwon McMillan is a bust? What world are you living in?

Ford, seen some playing time, made a few plays.
Gesiki disappointment so far.

I'm not going to split hairs, but he sucked as a rookie and started to come on last year.

Baker, good pick!
Sanders, solid kicker.
Smythe would not be on most teams
Ballage bust
Wilkins disappointment so far.

I don't know what you were expecting, but he just finished his rookie season on what was supposedly an historically bad defense.

Dieter would be PS on most teams,
Gaskins (our QB was our leading rusher last year).

This is what we have to show for 4 drafts and 29 picks.

This is an issue and has been an issue for a long time.

What about Davon Godchaux? Van Ginkel? Chandler Cox?

And I know you don't want to include the draft picks we got for guys like Tunsil and Minkah. But it's 3 first round picks and a 2nd round pick that we wouldn't have if we hadn't drafted studs.

 

[Duss]

Dont know why everyone is gagging over the Cowboys

Since 1997 Phins and Cowpokes have same number of Wins in the playoffs 3

Yet you guys think they are so much better

It's ludicrous

The prior logic was that while we were making bad calls, his calls were more right, but not always heeded. Each successive iteration of our front office noted he was more right than the other scouts. He moved up each time. I bought into this as well. But looking at our draft this year, two things stood out to me, one good and one bad.

Good:
He understood the tiers of talent and moved around the draft both down and up to get guys in the tiers he wanted.

Bad:
He consistently reached for players ... and IMHO, rarely took the best player available.

In contrast, the Dallas Cowboys, led by Jerry's son Steven Jones, seem to be doing a very good job of drafting BPA and consistently having good drafts. Picking up a falling star in CeeDee Lamb is something Ozzy Newsome at Baltimore was famous for doing. Ditto in the mid rounds to get Tyler Biadasz who had a subpar combine. With far less draft capital ... the Dallas Cowboys cleaned up. Don't be surprised to see this team improve despite having to pay a mountain of money to re-sign Dak, and having to sacrifice our best new player, Byron Jones just to do it.

Quietly, Steven Jones is becoming a good Owner/GM.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Dont know why everyone is gagging over the Cowboys

Since 1997 Phins and Cowpokes have same number of Wins in the playoffs 3

Yet you guys think they are so much better

It's ludicrous

I don't get it either. They get some top tier players, but the foundation of that team is generally weak because they love quality over quantity.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I was looking at his history with us, which started in 2000 as a scout. In 2003, he was promoted to national scout and assistant director of college scouting. In 2007 he became our director of college scouting until becoming the GM in 2016. Now when I look back over the last 20 years he has been involved with scouting, in charge of scouting, and then finally the GM......our drafts have been pathetic. That is putting it nicely. At least 90% of our draft picks in that time have been HORRIBLE! The inability to draft has been by far the biggest issue on this team for 20 years. This has led to overspending and over reaching in FA, which has more often than not bit us in the butt.

Hopefully Flores' input and style has change the mentality of the types of players we are looking at.....but you can't deny Grier's track record with us so far has been pretty pathetic. Hopefully he can turn it around. However it makes you question how he was promoted to GM in the first place. I think a lot of it had to do with Tittybaum coming in and they needed a yes man. Just MHO. Pulling for him to turn this thing around!

So you're saying there has never been a guy on a bad team who was elevated to GM and succeeded? I seriously doubt that. I suspect most of us here have seen the 'big guy' at a company move on and replaced with an assistant who turned the company around. IMO he saw his scouting dept was weak and brought in pros. That change and Flo should provide dramatic changes. For now, we're waiting for evidence

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

Moot conversation at this point, and anyway hasn’t this subject been discussed to death already ??? This has already been beaten like a dead horse. Oh well. How bout this, talk to me after two years when Grier has had two drafts under his belt with him steering the ship by himself. Otherwise this can’t be taken seriously. Just can’t be adequately judged yet

Gauranteed . . . in two years they will say the difference was Flores, not Grier The guy gets no respect at all from some. A shame.

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

I think Brian Flores is gonna be Chris Grier’s saving grace

flores is strong where Chris Grier has a fading weakness. Personnel and evaluations. And more important just simply building a cohesive roster

flores has a scouting background and is a very good evaluator of talent. For his own system anyways

I think Grier is a good facilitator. Hes shown he can be a savy negotiator. He doesn’t really get fooled. He is conservative by nature but he doesn’t get he’s peas shucked.

I of course have no proof but I just get a sense that this roster is essentially under flores control. I don’t think there are any picks being made or talent being added that flores simply says “no way” to.

except maybe josh Rosen. There’s gonna be some situations like that where the juice is worth the squeeze even if flores doesn’t sign off.

I think flores is gonna save Chris Grier and the Miami Dolphins.

Who chose Brian Flores to be HC? Or, does that not matter to you?

 

[Austin Tatious]

One thing that is clear from this draft is we know what an alternate universe would be like had Mike Tannenbaum stayed. Tannenbaum’s guy was Herbert. It was Herbert when he was still here and it was Herbert now that he’s a pundit. On numerous occasions he lauded Herbert as his top guy and he also said repeatedly he wouldn’t take Tua at five because of the risk. That’s all public record.

So we know where we would be had Grier still been under Tannenbaum‘s thumb. Grier obviously eschewed Tannenbaum’s current recommendations. That’s frankly a good sign when you consider anything before and after Tannenbaum‘s imprint on the organization. While T was here, there’s no telling what Grier might have done had he been calling the final shots as he is now.

That is not to say that there were not systemic problems within the organization such as their poor background evaluations, leading to bad character guys being selected with guys like Jonathan Martin or Dion Jordan. There were failed scouting decisions from Charles Harris to Michael Egnew, and the almost miraculous inability to land an offensive lineman past the first round. Grier was part of that organization and had the ability to provide input to correct the fundamental flaws. As a senior attorney told me when I was starting out, “if anything goes wrong with this file, even if it wasn’t your direct responsibility, you are part of the problem.“ That was excellent advice and applies in those regards. But, if you’re talking about the global, big picture decisions, like who are we centering the franchise around, we have direct proof that Grier and T saw it differently, at least this year. That suggests that might have happened in other years.

We will see how the picks pan out. For Tua, I give him an A plus, even if the worst happens in terms of injury. I don’t care. The upside was so high that any risk was worth it. If he never plays a game, its just another squandered pick. In the NFL they don’t even let you hit the QB much. Tua gets the ball out ridiculously fast. If he works on avoiding hits (watch Brees tape), there may be a sea change with him. I had a tear in my eye when we took Tua because I just didn’t know if I could have confidence in them to do the right thing. Grier did it and nothing else matters in the end. We now have years to get the rest right around him.