Switch Montana and Dan's teams

[rafael]

No question he could squeeze passes into tight places. But that has nothing to do with you saying he couldn't read a defense.

So throwing the ball to someone who is covered when there are open wrs available has nothing to do with reading a defense? Dan did this all the time. It was either confidence or an error. You couldn't see this on TV, but at the stadium you'd see guys wide open and Dan would force it in to the covered guy. He was so good he got away with it more often than not, but it was still the wrong read.

 

[Dolphin North]

If you are talking about stats and gaudy numbers yo're right. But Kelly ran an entire offense on his own(Hull helped) got to 4 Super Bowls, And beat Marino on a regular basis.

Honestly I don't care if you compare Kelly to Marino. When the dust settled, all Marinos numbers couldn't beat Kelly.

But you see it was not a game of one on one. How bad would Kelly have lost without Thurman and teh other help he had. You saying Marino is the reason Kelly ever beat the Fins? Sure bud, I can take you seriously now!:goof:

 

[Dolphin North]

This is just stupid. Gee, I'm sorry that the Marino led Phins couldn't beat the Kelly lead Bills, but it isn't like you guys sucked. You were in it every year, and how many times did we knock you out?

Do you remeber when Kelly dove over the goal line as time expired for the victory over you guys. Thats the greatest play he ever made.

If Marino was so much better that they can't even be mentioned in the sanme sentance then he should have been able to win more games against Juim. Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I remember those years thinking we had a chance because of Dan. Stop trying to say your edge was at QB, it ruins any credibility you may have.

 

[Dolphin North]

I respect that Jim Kelly did a "good" job and was a pretty decent QB. But the reason he "lead" the bills better than Marino (as you put it) is that he had Thurman Thomas, a slightly better O-line, oh and yeah, Bruce Smith was on your side chasing Marino.

Looking back now, I realize that you had the better team. We had the better QB but it wasn't enough.

Bingo. But Loseman won't get it.

 

[SCall13]

So throwing the ball to someone who is covered when there are open wrs available has nothing to do with reading a defense? Dan did this all the time. It was either confidence or an error. You couldn't see this on TV, but at the stadium you'd see guys wide open and Dan would force it in to the covered guy. He was so good he got away with it more often than not, but it was still the wrong read.

Pfffft...whatever you say. Yeah, Marino was good at threading the needle. But he was just as good as reading a defense. To suggest he wasn't is just plain ignorant. Like I said, to be as effective as he was at the two minute drill, you'd have to be able to read a defense. To call an audible (and he did it often) you'd have to be able to read the defense. You offer no example to support your claim. Yet, there are tons of examples I can give that prove that he was great at reading defenses. Saying he couldn't makes absolutely NO SENSE.

 

[wazzy]

He could read Defenses and he had the best arm if we surrounded him with a little more quality he would of won superbowls (endofstory) I do think hes one of the best but that SB he never won sure holds him back when you compare the greats

 

[DolfanISS]

If you are talking about stats and gaudy numbers yo're right. But Kelly ran an entire offense on his own(Hull helped) got to 4 Super Bowls, And beat Marino on a regular basis.

Honestly I don't care if you compare Kelly to Marino. When the dust settled, all Marinos numbers couldn't beat Kelly.

These arguments are stupid. The Bills offense was like an all star team compared to Miami's in the early 90's. Does anyone believe Frank Riech was a great QB. No, he just had great players around him and could win with that great cast. I sound like a broken record but football is the ultimate team sport and no single player is solely responsible for the success of the offense, defense or the entire TEAM winning. We measure the greatness of a player at any other position by there individual accomplishments except the QB. There greatness is measured by the success of the team. It doesn't make sense. If we rated every player that way Charles Haley would be the best football player to ever strap on a helmet becuase he has 5 Super Bowl rings.

KELLY NEVER BEAT MARINO AND MARINO NEVER BEAT KELLY. The Bills beat the Dolphins.

 

[Losman7]

You guys think i doin't know that Marino was a better Qb. I do.

and thats fine, I don't have a problem admitting that, but at the end of the day it didn't matter. Marino, (the best QB ever, by your estimations) couldn't effect the game enough to beat Kellys teams. Thats all I'm saying. I don't care if Kelly wasn't as good a QB.

 

[DolfanISS]

This is just stupid. Gee, I'm sorry that the Marino led Phins couldn't beat the Kelly lead Bills, but it isn't like you guys sucked. You were in it every year, and how many times did we knock you out?

Do you remeber when Kelly dove over the goal line as time expired for the victory over you guys. Thats the greatest play he ever made.

If Marino was so much better that they can't even be mentioned in the sanme sentance then he should have been able to win more games against Juim. Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

You do that but it's an ignorant opinion. Through all of Kelly's accomplishments he could never beat Troy Aikman. In fact Aikman use to beat the crap out of the Kelly led Bills whenever it mattered.

Now do you see how stupid this sounds. I would take Jim Kelly over Troy Aikman any day of the week. Aikman just played for the most dominant TEAM of our era. If you can't see that the Bills were light years better than the fins and that the only reason the Fins were "in it every year" as you say was becuase of Marino you know nothing about the 90-94 Dolphins.

Could you actually compare Thurman Thomas and Kenneth Davis to any of the following RB's with a straight face:

Sammie Smith
Marc Logan
Bobby Humphrey
Mark Higgs
Bernie Parmelee

Not to mention the Bills O-line, WR's and defense were better. The only skill position that Miami may have had an advantage over Buffalo at that time was TE.

 

[DolfanISS]

You guys think i doin't know that Marino was a better Qb. I do.

and thats fine, I don't have a problem admitting that, but at the end of the day it didn't matter. Marino, (the best QB ever, by your estimations) couldn't effect the game enough to beat Kellys teams. Thats all I'm saying. I don't care if Kelly wasn't as good a QB.

Montana's greatness couldn't affect the game enough to lead the Chiefs to a Super Bowl victory either.

 

[rafael]

Pfffft...whatever you say. Yeah, Marino was good at threading the needle. But he was just as good as reading a defense. To suggest he wasn't is just plain ignorant. Like I said, to be as effective as he was at the two minute drill, you'd have to be able to read a defense. To call an audible (and he did it often) you'd have to be able to read the defense. You offer no example to support your claim. Yet, there are tons of examples I can give that prove that he was great at reading defenses. Saying he couldn't makes absolutely NO SENSE.

I don't have access to them anymore, but if you can get access to any coaches film from the Marino years you'll see what I mean. I used to have friends who were scouts so I got to see coaches film through their contacts. Over and over again you'd see Marino ignore/not see the open wr. It's what hurt Marino after his injury. His arm was still stronger than most starting QBs, but it wasn't strong enough to let him get away with the passes he used to throw. So you calling me ignorant is laughable since I'm probably working off of more information than you have.

 

[LopezDolphins]

I dont think that Marino would work very well in the west coast offense but in Buffalo with all that talent in the 90's Marino would have put up great numbers but they would still lose due to the defense not showing up except for 2 superbowls

 

[LopezDolphins]

You guys think i doin't know that Marino was a better Qb. I do.

and thats fine, I don't have a problem admitting that, but at the end of the day it didn't matter. Marino, (the best QB ever, by your estimations) couldn't effect the game enough to beat Kellys teams. Thats all I'm saying. I don't care if Kelly wasn't as good a QB.

The talent level in Buffalo was better then Miami back then so i would have to agree not that i like it :fire: