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Tannehill To Bengals A Possibility

The opinions of Tannehill vary of course, but IMHO, he is one of if not THE best veteran QB available. The salary is a big deal, but we've seen veteran QB's generate value and teams have been willing to pay big for them.

Heck, just the other year Chicago financially invested in Mike Glennon and immediately traded crazy value to move up and draft Mitchell Trubisky, whom they immediately started. Then there's the constantly revolving door of wasted value Denver has thrown at the QB position, and Minnesota, etc. Didn't a team give up good draft value for Jacoby Brissette not too long ago? I think there will definitely be a market for a good young QB who is a solid citizen, has a strong arm, is mobile, smart and a hard worker. With the salary cap constantly going up like it has lately, I don't think his salary is going to be the barrier to a trade some think it will be.

I'd rather translate whatever value we get for Tannehill into something we can use in the 2020 draft, to possibly trade up and get a great young QB prospect. The 2020 draft is where the next crop of top QB talent can be found, not the 2019 draft.
 
Digital said:
The opinions of Tannehill vary of course, but IMHO, he is one of if not THE best veteran QB available. The salary is a big deal, but we've seen veteran QB's generate value and teams have been willing to pay big for them.

Heck, just the other year Chicago financially invested in Mike Glennon and immediately traded crazy value to move up and draft Mitchell Trubisky, whom they immediately started. Then there's the constantly revolving door of wasted value Denver has thrown at the QB position, and Minnesota, etc. Didn't a team give up good draft value for Jacoby Brissette not too long ago? I think there will definitely be a market for a good young QB who is a solid citizen, has a strong arm, is mobile, smart and a hard worker. With the salary cap constantly going up like it has lately, I don't think his salary is going to be the barrier to a trade some think it will be.

I'd rather translate whatever value we get for Tannehill into something we can use in the 2020 draft, to possibly trade up and get a great young QB prospect. The 2020 draft is where the next crop of top QB talent can be found, not the 2019 draft.
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He’s not so young anymore . . . .and who knows how much arm strength he really has now after leg and shoulder injuries. He is damaged mentally . . . .how much so is up for debate. His struggles with handling pressure and improvising are evident and it is problem. The unknown is often more valuable than the known in a scenario like this, so guys like Brissett and even Glennon would command more in a trade.

This isn’t the same guy from 2016 . . . .I think the salary is definitely a barrier.

That said I don’t believe its unreasonable to say he can be traded. He has experience and he has flashed eye opening talent theoughout his career . . . .all it takes is one team . . . .but I would be shocked if Miami got anything in the top 125 for him . . . .I am expecting a late 4th as a “best case” haul with the more likely haul being a 5th . . . .the fact that we would eat the dead cap makes it more attractive as the 26.5 million dollar cap hit would be a definite non starter . . . The 18.5 million with the ability to release for nothing makes him more intriguing, intriguing enough for a team to potentially waste a late pick for him if it didnt work out.
 
Kdawg954 said:
He’s not so young anymore . . . .and who knows how much arm strength he really has now after leg and shoulder injuries. He is damaged mentally . . . .how much so is up for debate. His struggles with handling pressure and improvising are evident and it is problem. The unknown is often more valuable than the known in a scenario like this, so guys like Brissett and even Glennon would command more in a trade.

This isn’t the same guy from 2016 . . . .I think the salary is definitely a barrier.

That said I don’t believe its unreasonable to say he can be traded. He has experience and he has flashed eye opening talent theoughout his career . . . .all it takes is one team . . . .but I would be shocked if Miami got anything in the top 125 for him . . . .I am expecting a late 4th as a “best case” haul with the more likely haul being a 5th . . . .the fact that we would eat the dead cap makes it more attractive as the 26.5 million dollar cap hit would be a definite non starter . . . The 18.5 million with the ability to release for nothing makes him more intriguing, intriguing enough for a team to potentially waste a late pick for him if it didnt work out.
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I doubt there are many GM's that would consider Glennon or Brissette to have anywhere near the value of Tannehill. Tannehill, while we haven't won much in his career, has proven to be the better QB. The injury questions are reasonable, but before the freak knee accident he was a real iron-man, and I don't think that's really flipped. Tannehill made one mistake … not having the reconstructive surgery as soon as he hurt his knee. But that's no longer a problem, so I don't think that counts against him.

The shoulder issue is debatable, and definitely something to be considered open-ended. I can how that might scare off some GM's, but all of the medical people I've seen commenting on it seem to be of the opinion that resting him will fix it. I'm inclined to think that is what happens. Every player loses value past a certain age, but in the timeframe of QB's, Tannehill's not that old. I'm not convinced he's so much less than he was in 2016.

Yeah, I mentioned the salary, but we disagree about how much of a difference maker it really is. Looking at the financial commitments made to some of those QB's in the past--considering the salary cap and level of QB compensation at the time they were made--I don't think Tannehill's compensation will prevent a trade.

Every year fans hype up the QB class. It's inevitable. Everyone loves talking about QB's. But the evaluators know it's not a good QB class. IMHO, that will up what teams are willing to pay for guys like Tannehill. Some QB's make a lot of sense in certain places, such as Nick Foles would in Jacksonville. But, Tannehill will be highly regarded by a lot of teams needing a QB. The question is whether they pull the trigger on the trade, roll the dice in the draft, or like the Chicago Bears did, both.
 
Digital said:
I doubt there are many GM's that would consider Glennon or Brissette to have anywhere near the value of Tannehill. Tannehill, while we haven't won much in his career, has proven to be the better QB. The injury questions are reasonable, but before the freak knee accident he was a real iron-man, and I don't think that's really flipped. Tannehill made one mistake … not having the reconstructive surgery as soon as he hurt his knee. But that's no longer a problem, so I don't think that counts against him.

The shoulder issue is debatable, and definitely something to be considered open-ended. I can how that might scare off some GM's, but all of the medical people I've seen commenting on it seem to be of the opinion that resting him will fix it. I'm inclined to think that is what happens. Every player loses value past a certain age, but in the timeframe of QB's, Tannehill's not that old. I'm not convinced he's so much less than he was in 2016.

Yeah, I mentioned the salary, but we disagree about how much of a difference maker it really is. Looking at the financial commitments made to some of those QB's in the past--considering the salary cap and level of QB compensation at the time they were made--I don't think Tannehill's compensation will prevent a trade.

Every year fans hype up the QB class. It's inevitable. Everyone loves talking about QB's. But the evaluators know it's not a good QB class. IMHO, that will up what teams are willing to pay for guys like Tannehill. Some QB's make a lot of sense in certain places, such as Nick Foles would in Jacksonville. But, Tannehill will be highly regarded by a lot of teams needing a QB. The question is whether they pull the trigger on the trade, roll the dice in the draft, or like the Chicago Bears did, both.
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When speaking in terms of draft compensation . . . .there is no way that 31 year old Ryan Tannehill, with what he has been through and has never accomplished, on a 2/38 million deal, is going to garner more in draft compensation than a 26 year old Jacoby Brisett still on his rookie sub million dollar deal and primarily a backup due to sitting behind Brady and Luck.

Like I said previously, the youth and unknown still reign supreme when giving up notable draft assets. Brissett > Tannehill 10 times out of 10 (or 32 teams out of 32) when considering their value in a trade.

Mike Glennon, when he signed with Chicago, was more attractive and valuable, than Ryan Tannehill is today.

That doesn’t mean Tannehill can’t be the better option for a team or perform at a higher level . . . .but again that is another debate for another time.

Ryan has damn near 90 starts under his belt, for many GMs that is enough to be a definitive book on a player . . . .there will not be some heavy handed commitment towards him. He’s is a decently attractive low risk option but the salary and injury history do provide the type of risk that could make a team backoff and seek other options.
 
Kdawg954 said:
When speaking in terms of draft compensation . . . .there is no way that 31 year old Ryan Tannehill, with what he has been through and has never accomplished, on a 2/38 million deal, is going to garner more in draft compensation than a 26 year old Jacoby Brisett still on his rookie sub million dollar deal and primarily a backup due to sitting behind Brady and Luck.

Like I said previously, the youth and unknown still reign supreme when giving up notable draft assets. Brissett > Tannehill 10 times out of 10 (or 32 teams out of 32) when considering their value in a trade.

Mike Glennon, when he signed with Chicago, was more attractive and valuable, than Ryan Tannehill is today.

That doesn’t mean Tannehill can’t be the better option for a team or perform at a higher level . . . .but again that is another debate for another time.

Ryan has damn near 90 starts under his belt, for many GMs that is enough to be a definitive book on a player . . . .there will not be some heavy handed commitment towards him. He’s is a decently attractive low risk option but the salary and injury history do provide the type of risk that could make a team backoff and seek other options.
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I don't see how we're going to agree if that is your perspective. Brissett was overcompensated, and I doubt you believe otherwise. Glennon was as well. The value given up for each was in excess of their value … but teams are desperate for QB's, and if you honestly believe Tannehill is less of a prospect than those two, we simply do not have a point of reference from which to see eye to eye.

Tannehill is a far more accurate and productive QB. He ticks the boxes the other guys do plus many more. Yes, he is older, but no GM really thought those guys were the answer. Heck, despite just signing Glennon the Bears traded up in exorbitant trades to ensure they got Trubisky. Talk about damning with faint praise. Tannehill is clearly better than Glennon and Brissett, and I'm surprised to hear you suggest the opposite.
 
CoryMatthews said:
Come on. A 25 year old Brissett is infinitely more valuable than an injury prone 30 year old who has proven over and over again he isn’t the guy. 32 out of 32 gms would choose Brissett over Tannehill to start next year v
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What's interesting to me...and I'm trying to see your side of it...isn't that you think Brissett is a better choice. It's that you think that the other side of that argument is ridiculous.
 
Digital said:
I don't see how we're going to agree if that is your perspective. Brissett was overcompensated, and I doubt you believe otherwise. Glennon was as well. The value given up for each was in excess of their value … but teams are desperate for QB's, and if you honestly believe Tannehill is less of a prospect than those two, we simply do not have a point of reference from which to see eye to eye.

Tannehill is a far more accurate and productive QB. He ticks the boxes the other guys do plus many more. Yes, he is older, but no GM really thought those guys were the answer. Heck, despite just signing Glennon the Bears traded up in exorbitant trades to ensure they got Trubisky. Talk about damning with faint praise. Tannehill is clearly better than Glennon and Brissett, and I'm surprised to hear you suggest the opposite.
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I mean we can’t agree because you are refusing to see the point of the debate.

Defining who potentially is “the better prospect” is not the factor you think it is in determining who is more valuable and worth giving up better assets for. That is what you are stuck on. You are hell bent on saying Tannehill is better than Brissett and Glennon, but using that as the only barometer in determing their value to another team.

Hell with age, injury history, salary, situation, unknown, etc from your perspective . . Nah man, that is not how these things operate.

If you are willing, take a view around the league and see what team right now in the NFL is going to give up lets say a 4th rounder AND pay a 31 year old making 2/38 million on a contract, injured the past 3 years and has never lead his team to anything, QB to add to their roster? Who is doing that?

i did the legwork in VIP

NYG can cut or trade Eli, take a 6.5 million dollar dead caphit and try
Arizona has limited cap invested in QBs so they can try depsite Rosen drafted.
Both Tampa and Tennessee can rescind Winston and Marriota and give it a shot
Cincy can outright cut or trade Dalton with no penalty and try with Tannehill
Oakland can cut or trade Carr, take a 7.5 million dollar dead caphit and try

Teams like Jville and Bmore are too upside down on guys like Flacco and Bortles . . . . not to mention Bmore has Lamar Jackson . . . .and the draft has Haskins and Murray, who could be attractive options to a tram like Jville, NYG, Cincy and Oaklandover the likes of Tannehill.

Meanwhile, there are a few teams, if available, are more than likely willing to give up a third at least for Brissett, because A. The qb class is underwhelming and he is better than anything you can get . . . .and B. He makes under $900K in 2019.

You really believe Washington is gonna add Ryan Tannehill and his $18.7 million dollar contract, on top of Alex Smith’s $21 million dollar cap hit (even if out for 2019) . . . .AND give up draft assets . . . .when they can get Brissett instead for a the same price? Come on. Who is trading and paying for this guy?

Tannehill does not have this perceived value that you are suggesting. Not in a trade and not at that price. Now if Miami cuts him, he won’t go unemployed either . . . .but it won’t cost a draft pick and my guess is the price would be under $10 million AAV.

Tannehill’s best bet is taking a paycut and staying in Miami . . . .if Grier will have him.
 
if brissetts more valuable its because hes on a rookie contract and dirt cheap. that's the difference here.

it isn't anything he's done on the field
 
there's talk that cam newton may miss all of 2019 with that shoulder surgery. if that's the case another team frees up for at least a stop gap qb need.

if tannehill goes somewhere else to be even the stop gap going in I will eat my shorts if he does so making $10 mil or less per.
 
hoops said:
if brissetts more valuable its because hes on a rookie contract and dirt cheap. that's the difference here.

it isn't anything he's done on the field
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Well Brissett has never had a three game stretch that he had under 300 net passing yards. Tannehill did in his three most recent games.
 
hoops said:
there's talk that cam newton may miss all of 2019 with that shoulder surgery. if that's the case another team frees up for at least a stop gap qb need.

if tannehill goes somewhere else to be even the stop gap going in I will eat my shorts if he does so making $10 mil or less per.
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If Zac Taylor really wants Ryan in Cincy . . . .the teams should do a straight swap of QBs and be done with it. Give both guys a change of scenery with no further dead cap liabilities on either contract. Not a fan of Dalton’s but it would be nice to have someone else behind center until we get froggy in the draft in 2020 or 2021.

IMO that or staying in Miami are the only 2 realistic shots at Ryan making above $10 million in 2019.

I don’t see a team like Washington or Carolina trading or offering him that if he is on the FA market . . . .when their own QBs are already accounting for over $20 million. If he is willing to do 1 year, $9 million and rebuild his value for team without their QB . . . .that opportunity may exist. It won’t be at more than that or he won’t be starting.

There really aren’t any stop gap positions in the league. Only opportunities for teams to dump their Tannehill for ours. Question is will Eli, Flacco, Foles, Carr and Bridgewater be less desireable than Tannehill.

We’ll see.
 
ok so you are drawing a line in the sand on teams not willing to pay over $30 million all told for the qb position. that seems like a pretty sound thought process to me.

but if newtons out for the year I don't think ron rivera can just mail it in or wait for a rookie so they gonna need someone. and I could see ryan saying I will play at a discount this year for you with an eye towards 2020 should he play well cashing in elsewhere.

but you gonna have to make that money fully guaranteed. and we gonna squeeze you for every bit of qb juice money you have.

now despite what anyone says there are a few things ryan has going for him in this. one the tapes obvious the qb was not the only problem in Miami there is enough blown assignments from guys other than the qb to lose count of on the 2018 tape. two ryan is another year removed from his acl surgery which is comforting in terms of his physical health coming in and three if his capsule is fully healed teams may lay some of the blame on his shoulder being a part of the 2018 results. and finally he rarely makes the kind of mistakes that just take you of games he's pretty good at taking care of the ball and not forcing something (which teams like in a stop gap scenario)

on the negative side the tape is gonna say we got to protect the hell out of this kid and implement a lot of timing based routes ball out of hand to limit the off script ask. and that may send some teams into no thanks ville.

should be interesting how this shakes out.
 
hoops said:
ok so you are drawing a line in the sand on teams not willing to pay over $30 million all told for the qb position. that seems like a pretty sound thought process to me.

but if newtons out for the year I don't think ron rivera can just mail it in or wait for a rookie so they gonna need someone. and I could see ryan saying I will play at a discount this year for you with an eye towards 2020 should he play well cashing in elsewhere.

but you gonna have to make that money fully guaranteed. and we gonna squeeze you for every bit of qb juice money you have.

now despite what anyone says there are a few things ryan has going for him in this. one the tapes obvious the qb was not the only problem in Miami there is enough blown assignments from guys other than the qb to lose count of on the 2018 tape. two ryan is another year removed from his acl surgery which is comforting in terms of his physical health coming in and three if his capsule is fully healed teams may lay some of the blame on his shoulder being a part of the 2018 results. and finally he rarely makes the kind of mistakes that just take you of games he's pretty good at taking care of the ball and not forcing something (which teams like in a stop gap scenario)

on the negative side the tape is gonna say we got to protect the hell out of this kid and implement a lot of timing based routes ball out of hand. and that may send some teams into no thanks ville.

should be interesting how this shakes out.
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I mean it would be a Jay Cutlerish type deal . . . And absolutely fully guaranteed . . . .and if they wanna throw in some escalators to kick it above $10 million (playoffs, pro bowl, etc.) then thats fine.

But the 18.7 million is a non starter IMO, especially on a team with a $20 million dollar QB in the fold.

If Miami can’t find a trade partner and release him . . . .there will absolutely be a market for Tannehill. That was a never a question. But giving up a 3 or a 4 . . . .and a 2/38 million dollar contract . . . .I don’t see it . . .UNLESS this speculative connection and want with Taylor has some merrit to it as they can jettison Andy Dalton with no penalty.

Then again people further away seem to think Ryan played best under Taylor . . . .maybe statistically but we all know Ryan has his best moments under Adam Gase in 2016. Its a good job of connecting dots . . . .but really thats all it is at this point.

But I have seen Jville and Washington and now Carolina . . . .and those aren’t options via trade IMO.
 
Kdawg954 said:
He’s not so young anymore . . . .and who knows how much arm strength he really has now after leg and shoulder injuries. He is damaged mentally . . . .how much so is up for debate. His struggles with handling pressure and improvising are evident and it is problem. The unknown is often more valuable than the known in a scenario like this, so guys like Brissett and even Glennon would command more in a trade.

This isn’t the same guy from 2016 . . . .I think the salary is definitely a barrier.

That said I don’t believe its unreasonable to say he can be traded. He has experience and he has flashed eye opening talent theoughout his career . . . .all it takes is one team . . . .but I would be shocked if Miami got anything in the top 125 for him . . . .I am expecting a late 4th as a “best case” haul with the more likely haul being a 5th . . . .the fact that we would eat the dead cap makes it more attractive as the 26.5 million dollar cap hit would be a definite non starter . . . The 18.5 million with the ability to release for nothing makes him more intriguing, intriguing enough for a team to potentially waste a late pick for him if it didnt work out.
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hahaha come on dude long neck, glennon? Flacco would cut into his market. Not glennon or Brisket. I could see a 3rd or 4th.
 
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