Tanny > Matty Ice

[Vaark]

This is a bad season for Matt Ryan? He's still a top 10 QB with no weapons. I'll take that. He's beating Tannehill in damn near everything by a good margin in his "bad" season (it's certainly a bad season for the Falcons). I think Tannehill is going to be a good QB (some apparently think it's impossible to believe both are good QBs), but Tannehill does nothing to change the FACT that Long was the wrong pick. What's funny is the anger directed at Matt Ryan because people were wrong. It happens. Get over it already. Matt Ryan is a good QB.

Matt Ryan is the only reason the 2-8 Falcons were able to stay in this game, a game against a team that took us out for a nice steak dinner and never called us again!

Didn't he score 13 points, or was I watching something else? Didn't he go a couple of games where he threw something like 2TDs and 7 Ints with sub 70QBRs. Didn't he put up `13-28-10-10-13 in his last 5 games? Last I looked, Tannehill did better than that and didn't our guy beat him head to head? Now if a 4 year college QB in his 6th year isn't outperforming a QB with 25 games in, then shame on him. But on the other hand, one has 2 wins and the other has 5, so there's that too. Fact, if the fins drafted Melty, aside from having the kind of resources he's now demonstrating he can't rise above, we'd not have Long at his best early on protecting him so whether Melty even makes it 3 years looking better than Henne is debatable :idk:

Now for the record, I do think he's a pretty decent regular season QB providing he has the tools and there's no real pressure. However, considering that going back to college post season, he's scored all of 24 points in 6 second halves and all of 3 points in 6 4th quarters, thinking he's not a choker when it matters most is just blind love

 

[mega-fin-love]

It's way way to early to say that Tannehill is better than Matt Ryan. Maybe someday but definitely no right now.

 

[Gonzo]

Didn't he score 13 points, or was I watching something else? Didn't he go a couple of games where he threw something like 2TDs and 7 Ints with sub 70QBRs. Didn't he put up `13-28-10-10-13 in his last 5 games? Last I looked, Tannehill did better than that and didn't our guy beat him head to head? Now if a 4 year college QB in his 6th year isn't outperforming a QB with 25 games in, then shame on him. But on the other hand, one has 2 wins and the other has 5, so there's that too. Fact, if the fins drafted Melty, aside from having the kind of resources he's now demonstrating he can't rise above, we'd not have Long at his best early on protecting him so whether Melty even makes it 3 years looking better than Henne is debatable :idk:

Now for the record, I do think he's a pretty decent regular season QB providing he has the tools and there's no real pressure. However, considering that going back to college post season, he's scored all of 24 points in 6 second halves and all of 3 points in 6 4th quarters, thinking he's not a choker when it matters most is just blind love

So you are limiting it to only games that support your viewpoint? That's convenient. Let me try: Damn, I guess Tannehill is a bust because he had an average QBR of 47.5 in 4 weeks of this season. Geez, what a loser! Yes, one of those is the bye week, but you can't include outside factors. He had a horrible 0.0 QBR that week! Bust. But hey, Tannehill did outperform Ryan when they played head-to-head...by 5 yards. If Ryan sucks because of that performance, what does that say about Tannehill? Is 5 yards the barometer?

As for drafting Matt Ryan, you are apparently assuming that we would have gone into the season with no left tackle at all. Yeah, I suppose that could be dangerous. Clearly, Long was the only possible option at the position either through the draft or FA. Somehow, Matt Ryan and the Falcons managed to do just fine without Jake Long. Shocking, I know, considering how much he did for our team.

 

[rent this space]

Melty Ice is one of the better QB's in the league, until the pressure gets to him...

 

[Shouright]

So, we shouldn't compare them when they're in almost identical situations?

No. Definitely not. It's only the QB we desperately want to succeed who gets the benefit of the doubt derived from believing that his surroundings are at fault for his play.

All other QBs, on the other hand, are completely individually responsible for their own play.

 

[dabeastdabone]

I like Ryan but yeah, he is looking more like a product of Mr. Julio Jones.

One lesson we might take out of it is just how helpful a big, physical receiver helps a QB.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

This is a bad season for Matt Ryan? He's still a top 10 QB with no weapons. I'll take that. He's beating Tannehill in damn near everything by a good margin in his "bad" season (it's certainly a bad season for the Falcons). I think Tannehill is going to be a good QB (some apparently think it's impossible to believe both are good QBs), but Tannehill does nothing to change the FACT that Long was the wrong pick. What's funny is the anger directed at Matt Ryan because people were wrong. It happens. Get over it already. Matt Ryan is a good QB.

Matt Ryan is the only reason the 2-8 Falcons were able to stay in this game, a game against a team that took us out for a nice steak dinner and never called us again!

To me, Ryan Tannehill just proves the point of Matt Ryan. This team is getting equivalent or better results with straight trash OL play and a 1st round QB than it was with marginal QB play and a 120 million dollar bomb shelter OL.

You need the trigger man first.

 

[Vaark]

You can think what you want about a QB in his 6th pro year with 2 wins but whatever that opinion is, surely you must concede that there's more than sufficient evidence to determine that when push comes to shove when it matters most, Melty is not the QB you want going into the postseason. He's 1 and 5 going back to BC and the only time he won was by getting far enough up field for a FG - but of course that's after relinquishing 20 unanswered points and that FG was the only offensive 3pts he put up in 6 4th qtrs.

It's kind of charming in a way I suppose how the aduration for Matty gives him all kinds of passes for sucking in the postseason but Tannehill with as little to work with this year but a better record, is being declared a bust after 25 games by some. Go figure.

So you are limiting it to only games that support your viewpoint? That's convenient. Let me try: Damn, I guess Tannehill is a bust because he had an average QBR of 47.5 in 4 weeks of this season. Geez, what a loser! Yes, one of those is the bye week, but you can't include outside factors. He had a horrible 0.0 QBR that week! Bust. But hey, Tannehill did outperform Ryan when they played head-to-head...by 5 yards. If Ryan sucks because of that performance, what does that say about Tannehill? Is 5 yards the barometer?

As for drafting Matt Ryan, you are apparently assuming that we would have gone into the season with no left tackle at all. Yeah, I suppose that could be dangerous. Clearly, Long was the only possible option at the position either through the draft or FA. Somehow, Matt Ryan and the Falcons managed to do just fine without Jake Long. Shocking, I know, considering how much he did for our team.

 

[Spiff]

I agree with Vaark.

The thing is: none of us has watched all the Falcons games since Matt Ryan is their QB. But most probably everyone on this board has watched all Ryan Tannehill games in a Dolphins uniform. So we're basically comparing Matt Ryan's highlight reels with Ryan Tannehill's full games.

Bottom line is: I have seen some bad games by Tannehill and most of the Falcons games I've watched in the past five years Matt Ryan did not impress me. Do I think any of them is a world beater? Hell no.

Now what's the conclusion? It's pretty difficult to compare the two QBs if you do not watch BOTH closely.

 

[Gonzo]

You can think what you want about a QB in his 6th pro year with 2 wins but whatever that opinion is, surely you must concede that there's more than sufficient evidence to determine that when push comes to shove when it matters most, Melty is not the QB you want going into the postseason. He's 1 and 5 going back to BC and the only time he won was by getting far enough up field for a FG - but of course that's after relinquishing 20 unanswered points and that FG was the only offensive 3pts he put up in 6 4th qtrs.

It's kind of charming in a way I suppose how the aduration for Matty gives him all kinds of passes for sucking in the postseason but Tannehill with as little to work with this year but a better record, is being declared a bust after 25 games by some. Go figure.

First off, I want a QB that can get me to the postseason. Hard to compare until then.

It is funny how you completely disregard all other factors and place the W-L solely on the QB. I suppose that is a veiled response to the assertion that the Phins never accomplished anything with Long here while Ryan was off playing in the postseason. Flawed. It goes beyond the individual player. It's about the mentality of the team management. One team placed LT and the O-line above all else (and still managed to bungle that) while the other understood you need to put the emphasis on building around your QB. The latter has played in the postseason multiple times, the former has been a mediocre (at best) team that hasn't sniffed the post season outside of the Greatest Season of All Time (2008, obviously).

So, go ahead and judge Ryan based on his team's current year record. Does that work for all QBs? Guess Dan Marino was a ****ty QB too. I mean, 6-10 in 1988? And that's despite the O-line setting a single season record for fewest sacks allowed! What a loser!

Just face it. Your only beef with Matt Ryan is the fact that you are tired of hearing from those who were right about Wrong. The guy is still a top ten QB this year despite having **** at WR since Jones went down, a hobbled Gonzales, Old Man Withers at RB, a garbage line, and an atrocious defense. Yes, similar problems Tannehill is facing, which is why you don't see me on the Tannybust Bus. Hell, I've said multiple times in this thread that I think Tannehill is going to be a good QB, but the ends don't justify the means.

 

[MD]

So do you want a QB who puts up great numbers in the regular season but fizzles in the post season or a QB that makes it to the post season and wins?

Melty fits the former. I'll take the latter.

RT is neither but his season, along with the characteristics of his team this year, are very similar to Melty and the Falcons.

 

[Shouright]

I agree with Vaark.

The thing is: none of us has watched all the Falcons games since Matt Ryan is their QB. But most probably everyone on this board has watched all Ryan Tannehill games in a Dolphins uniform. So we're basically comparing Matt Ryan's highlight reels with Ryan Tannehill's full games.

Bottom line is: I have seen some bad games by Tannehill and most of the Falcons games I've watched in the past five years Matt Ryan did not impress me. Do I think any of them is a world beater? Hell no.

Now what's the conclusion? It's pretty difficult to compare the two QBs if you do not watch BOTH closely.

Comparing their statistics would address everything you said here.

 

[dolpns13]

This just proves that he is not elite. Elite QB's, Brady, Manning, Brees, they succeed with any WR that they are lined up with. Matt Ryan does not. He needs the talent. Brady has the Rats succeeding with two rookie WR's and no TE's.

Bad year to judge Matt Ryan. The Falcons have a worst OL than us and have little talent at WR behind Julio and Roddy. Not to mention the Falcons defense is god awful and the Falcons are often playing from behind.

 

[Vaark]

'Preciate you reinforcing a few of my points of contention and tangentially touching on others.

Yeah, since hindsight is always 20/20, Ryan over Long would have been the right call. However, who would suspect that The Meatball would ruin his career by subjecting him
to lingering and chronic injuries in a 4th exhibition game, so let's assume that going into the equation, Long was and would be as dominant as he was coming in.

Now if that's the case, I've been saying since halfway through the '08, that the smart move would have been to still grab a world class LT and then trade up to take
the guy who through the combine was zooming up the draft board - Joe Flacco, jumping in front of where the Ravens jumped to grab him mid-teens. The fact of the matter
is, while Ryan looks better during the season doing his thing usually with a superior set of offensive tools with which to work, Flacco has not missed a postseason and
when push comes to shove in crunch time, with a reasonable sampling size, is one of the better postseason QBs while Melty is one of the worst, with an abysmal 24
offensive points scored in second halfs, more than a few goose eggs along the line and 3 points in the 4th quarters total going back to BC.

And you've not addressed that at all, conveniently overlooking it to cite his regular season performances. You've not addressed all the evidentiary and anecdotal
indications that Ryan does not possess the clutch gene, while already the smart play would have had us with a healthy Long protecting a non-choking Flacco. We could have
had our cake and eaten it too.

It's funny that now many of the same Ryan proponents used stats to demonstrate that Henne or most non first round QB draft picks statistically fail... but all the sudden
have been pointing to Dalton, Kaep, Wilson and Foles, the flavor of the month (at least until the film is out on him) forgetting how vociferously they used to bloviate
how a non first round QB was a bad idea conceptually backed up by (the almighty) stats. You failed to address his .200 Pro and .1667 Pro & NCAA batting averages in
extended seasons where it's "one and done." You didn't because you can't refute the empirical evidence that screams out to most anyone who doesn't have the MattyMare in
the race as an emotional, sentimental or credibility-retaining pick. :idk:

So, by arguing that Ryan still looks good working with the kind of support that Henne had and THill now has essentially dovetails in with my contentions that:

a)looking good in the regular season is great as far as it goes, but I'd still take Flacco in a heartbeat over Melty, and,

b)there's enough evidence at that point that I defy anyone to bet any part of a salary that they actually need beyond disposable that MattyMelt will ever lead his
team to the SB based on what we now know, and probably most relevant for me:

c)if someone chooses to either ignore Melty's 12 second half postseason history of 24 offensive points including a total of 3 in the 4th quarter yet after 25 games are
declaring that Tannehill, who's actually doing better this season than Ryan despite the stats is being either being blinded by puppy love or just conveniently
disingenuous. Now in the past, Matty who's had so many excuses made for him has been "exonerated" by declaring it's a "team effort." Well what the **** about Tannehill
considering the "team" he's had to work with, the leads his defense and/or kicker have screwed up last in games and officiating which has outright robbed us and him in
a number of games? Sorry but you can't assert one without conceding the other. Doing otherwise IMO impugns one's judgment in general about QBs :idk:

Lemme leave my part of the discussion with this: Do you really believe it's coincidence that as well as Melty usually does with his exceptional tools in the regular season, still he comes up shooting blanks in the post seasons? Yeah, you want a QB who can win - at least enough in the regular season to move forward, but if that same QB keeps coming up short, after awhile you've gotta run out of rationalizations and excuses and acknowledge that there just is no "clutch gene" :idk:

First off, I want a QB that can get me to the postseason. Hard to compare until then.

It is funny how you completely disregard all other factors and place the W-L solely on the QB. I suppose that is a veiled response to the assertion that the Phins never accomplished anything with Long here while Ryan was off playing in the postseason. Flawed. It goes beyond the individual player. It's about the mentality of the team management. One team placed LT and the O-line above all else (and still managed to bungle that) while the other understood you need to put the emphasis on building around your QB. The latter has played in the postseason multiple times, the former has been a mediocre (at best) team that hasn't sniffed the post season outside of the Greatest Season of All Time (2008, obviously).

So, go ahead and judge Ryan based on his team's current year record. Does that work for all QBs? Guess Dan Marino was a ****ty QB too. I mean, 6-10 in 1988? And that's despite the O-line setting a single season record for fewest sacks allowed! What a loser!

Just face it. Your only beef with Matt Ryan is the fact that you are tired of hearing from those who were right about Wrong. The guy is still a top ten QB this year despite having **** at WR since Jones went down, a hobbled Gonzales, Old Man Withers at RB, a garbage line, and an atrocious defense. Yes, similar problems Tannehill is facing, which is why you don't see me on the Tannybust Bus. Hell, I've said multiple times in this thread that I think Tannehill is going to be a good QB, but the ends don't justify the means.

 

[nyjunc]

I have learned a lot this week, he's just as good as Luck and better than Ryan.