P4E
Cogito, Ergo FinFanum
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2002
- Messages
- 4,090
- Reaction score
- 5
Does Brian know you like watching Doug?
Just kiddin ya:D
Just kiddin ya:D
The blame game
- Thread starter Beckyj4
- Start date
Would you have asked if I had ever held a football if I were a man?
I guess we aren't on the same page with the 'list'. I was referring to a list of QBs who played with a 'combination' of at least a couple of the problems the Dolphins are having. IMO, the worst of all is NO Running game. For instance, No D? A good passer can still win games pretty consistantly with P/R if the have a running game and decent Receivers. Baltimore won a SB on the backs of their Defensive players., etc.
The only football related book I have ever read was the one Brian and Bob Griese wrote. Thank you for the compliment though. You must have found some of my statements feasible to make a statement like that.
Just how old are you? :confused:
i'm 57 and seen most of the great ones!Originally posted by Beckyj4
Would you have asked if I had ever held a football if I were a man?
I guess we aren't on the same page with the 'list'. I was referring to a list of QBs who played with a 'combination' of at least a couple of the problems the Dolphins are having. IMO, the worst of all is NO Running game. For instance, No D? A good passer can still win games pretty consistantly with P/R if the have a running game and decent Receivers. Baltimore won a SB on the backs of their Defensive players., etc.
The only football related book I have ever read was the one Brian and Bob Griese wrote. Thank you for the compliment though. You must have found some of my statements feasible to make a statement like that.
Just how old are you? :confused:
believe me, since i coached semi pro, that explains a lot!:D
06, ?????????????????????????????
You said when you were my age. I am 69. You are 57. What kind of math are you using?
Anyway, after watching Inside the NFL tonite, a Thanksgiving game in '99 came to mind. Marino is saying, re:Brian, "I thought he would play better". WOW! deja vue. So I want and looked it up.
Miami at Dallas November 25th 1999
MIA: D.Marino 14-35-5-176 Rush att 20 for 69 yards
T.Aikman 16-29-0-232..........Rush att 34 for 101
Miami at Tenn. November 9th, 2003
MIA:B Griese 15-27-3 131 Rush att16 for 59 yards
TENN:McNair 17-23-0-201 Rush att 40 for 109
Pretty close comparison. Brian had some fumbles but Marino threw more Ints. Strange he should say he thought Brian would play better when he had experienced much the same circumstances himself at least once, and wasn't able to. Neither of them was able to score.
You said when you were my age. I am 69. You are 57. What kind of math are you using?
Anyway, after watching Inside the NFL tonite, a Thanksgiving game in '99 came to mind. Marino is saying, re:Brian, "I thought he would play better". WOW! deja vue. So I want and looked it up.
Miami at Dallas November 25th 1999
MIA: D.Marino 14-35-5-176 Rush att 20 for 69 yards
T.Aikman 16-29-0-232..........Rush att 34 for 101
Miami at Tenn. November 9th, 2003
MIA:B Griese 15-27-3 131 Rush att16 for 59 yards
TENN:McNair 17-23-0-201 Rush att 40 for 109
Pretty close comparison. Brian had some fumbles but Marino threw more Ints. Strange he should say he thought Brian would play better when he had experienced much the same circumstances himself at least once, and wasn't able to. Neither of them was able to score.
Last edited by a moderator:
Or take 1998, Oct 4, at Jets
MIA: D.Marino 13-31-2-121 Sacked 3-23 R=15 for 34
NYJ:V.Testaverde 19-32-0-185 R=38 for 117
Then there were the '98 Play-offs:
MIA: D.Marino 26-37-2-243 R=13 for 14 yards
DEN: J.Elway 14-23-0-182 R= 38 for 250 yards.
Maybe you start to see that even the best QBs cannot pull games out under these circumstances, or even have a good game? The QB isn't and shouldn't be, the only player for their team on the field IMHO.
Since you "coached semi pro" I would have thought you would have known that. Heck, I am an old woman and I figured it out after not having played or coached the game......Maybe there is something to be said for just sitting back and watching. BTW, what was 'your' teams record?
MIA: D.Marino 13-31-2-121 Sacked 3-23 R=15 for 34
NYJ:V.Testaverde 19-32-0-185 R=38 for 117
Then there were the '98 Play-offs:
MIA: D.Marino 26-37-2-243 R=13 for 14 yards
DEN: J.Elway 14-23-0-182 R= 38 for 250 yards.
Maybe you start to see that even the best QBs cannot pull games out under these circumstances, or even have a good game? The QB isn't and shouldn't be, the only player for their team on the field IMHO.
Since you "coached semi pro" I would have thought you would have known that. Heck, I am an old woman and I figured it out after not having played or coached the game......Maybe there is something to be said for just sitting back and watching. BTW, what was 'your' teams record?
P4E
Cogito, Ergo FinFanum
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2002
- Messages
- 4,090
- Reaction score
- 5
Admit it, -- you two want each other bad.
:tongue:
:tongue:
inFINSible
Don't believe everything you think.
You're overlooking the fact that these two guys made that P/R stat of yours look silly most of the time. Both Elway and Marino were fluent in working with out a running game. Admittedly it was ultimately proven that even they couldn't make it work enough times to carry home the title in any particular season but, seeing as how both of these QBs that we are tearing apart followed two of the best QBs of all time, it's easy to see why some still cling to the notion that if the QB is any good at all, he should be able to overcome the lack of a team around him. Forgive them for their ignorance.
Looking at this in an unbiased way, because I do respect the game of both Griese and Fiedler for what they individually bring to the table, I think that Jay is better suited to run this offense if he is healthy. These guys are relatively equal in pros and cons. The injury to his knee negates Jay's only advantage over Brian as far as skillz go but, but since escapability behind this o-line is worth it's weight in gold, once Jay can play again he should be in there.
Never mind the run ratio or that Brian is more accurate. In a perfect world, that's all we would look at in evaluating a QB. The Dolphins team, being a far from perfect world, needs to factor in a few more obstacles for the QB to overcome. The first and foremost is finding TIME to throw the ball. Because it doesn't matter what the P/R ratio is, if every time you try to P, you have zero time to do it.
Now, short of a miracle, this line is not going to give ANY QB time to stand back there and pick apart a defense, especially a QB that is about as mobile as pavement.
I'm not scapegoating Brian. I just don't think that his particular style is suited for this team, at this time. Do you agree?
Last edited:
yeah, RIIIIGGHT!:D
<Originally posted by inFINSible
You're overlooking the fact that these two guys made that P/R stat of yours look silly most of the time. <
Actually, I haven't had time to look up the P/R ratio on Marino yet, but have for Elway and a few others, since '96. All I could find.
Brian, in 4 years has won much more lop sided (in favor of the pass( games than JE did in his last 3. (His most productive years.)
Brian has also the beneficiary of MANY more very lopsided games in his 4+ years as a starter than JE was in 3. Ditto the other QBs I looked up.
>Both Elway and Marino were fluent in working with out a running game. Admittedly it was ultimately proven that even they couldn't make it work enough times to carry home the title in any particular season but, seeing as how both of these QBs that we are tearing apart followed two of the best QBs of all time, it's easy to see why some still cling to the notion that if the QB is any good at all, he should be able to overcome the lack of a team around him. Forgive them for their ignorance.
Looking at this in an unbiased way, because I do respect the game of both Griese and Fiedler for what they individually bring to the table, I think that Jay is better suited to run this offense if he is healthy. These guys are relatively equal in pros and cons. The injury to his knee negates Jay's only advantage over Brian as far as skillz go but, but since escapability behind this o-line is worth it's weight in gold, once Jay can play again he should be in there. <
I would like to see Jay back in ther, but my reason may vary a bit from yours.
>Never mind the run ratio or that Brian is more accurate. In a perfect world, that's all we would look at in evaluating a QB. The Dolphins team, being a far from perfect world, needs to factor in a few more obstacles for the QB to overcome. The first and foremost is finding TIME to throw the ball. Because it doesn't matter what the P/R ratio is, if every time you try to P, you have zero time to do it. <
Plus 'finding' some receivers....
>Now, short of a miracle, this line is not going to give ANY QB time to stand back there and pick apart a defense, especially a QB that is about as mobile as pavement.<
Actually, he did pretty good in that department at Denver. Watch some of Denver's games from 1999-2002, then some Miami games from '83 thru '99. Then tell me which QB is more deserving of being called a pavement. Remember, they said Brian will NOT be 100% this year after his toe injury.
>I'm not scapegoating Brian. I just don't think that his particular style is suited for this team, at this time. Do you agree?
Yes, I agree, with the disclaimer that I seriously believe NO QB in the League is going to get it done with all the problems the Dolphins have. The most important problem with this team is, IMHO, not using the guy that has proven several times that he could get it done on the ground. :confused: I did not understand that omission in Denver from '99 thru 2002, (Actually still continuing-did you see their game against NE, with a 3rd string QB?) and I do not understand it in Miami.
Not one QB I have checked so far has gotten it done consistantly without at least a semblance of a ground game. JF included, DESPITE his ability to scramble.
BTW, you have some pretty neat fans over here. Got used to Denver 'fans' that were incapable of debating an issue without profanity or vulgarity. Not just with me. With anyone they disagreed with. Most of you people have a lot of class.
Trouble is, I revert to my second childhood with one person in particular, remembering some of the choice 'tidbits' this poster directed at me over the years. Here is hoping everyone will forgive me for messing up your forum on a couple of threads. I will try harder to behave and act my age.
in recent history, the ravens dilfer was definately aided by the defense, not his own offense. there was no running game to speak of!
inFINSible
Don't believe everything you think.
Originally posted by Beckyj4
<
Yes, I agree, with the disclaimer that I seriously believe NO QB in the League is going to get it done with all the problems the Dolphins have. The most important problem with this team is, IMHO, not using the guy that has proven several times that he could get it done on the ground. :confused: I did not understand that omission in Denver from '99 thru 2002, (Actually still continuing-did you see their game against NE, with a 3rd string QB?) and I do not understand it in Miami.
Not one QB I have checked so far has gotten it done consistantly without at least a semblance of a ground game. JF included, DESPITE his ability to scramble.
BTW, you have some pretty neat fans over here. Got used to Denver 'fans' that were incapable of debating an issue without profanity or vulgarity. Not just with me. With anyone they disagreed with. Most of you people have a lot of class.
Trouble is, I revert to my second childhood with one person in particular, remembering some of the choice 'tidbits' this poster directed at me over the years. Here is hoping everyone will forgive me for messing up your forum on a couple of threads. I will try harder to behave and act my age.
We all have our moments. Trust me. :D
We both agree that the prospects for any QB, given the other factors, is bleak but, I still can't discount the idea that a QB with some mobility and pocket awareness, is preferable to one who needs excellent protection to be most effective.
Just out of curiosity, looking back at last weeks game, the P/R for each team was staggeringly different, 26/38 for the Titans and 33/16 for Miami, which seems to support your theory. But at the same time the average per rush was a pitiful 2.7 for Tenn. and a much better 3.7 for the Phins. Which also seems to support your theory that Ricky isn't being used enough. So, if it's such an obvious solution as run more/win games, why isn't it being done? If YPR has nothing to do with it's effectiveness, why aren't we just handing it to Ricky 30 times a game?