The Elite Discussion

[Sons Of Shula]

Lol, Brady > Manning. You are wrong. Orton was better than Grossman too, Lovie was wrong and I knew it back then too.

Perhaps I should have been more specific. If you think the amount of passes that Manning threw vs Carolina is any indication of his impact on the games outcome you are severely lacking knowledge of a QB's responsibilities and how they can influence the game in the presnap phase.

You though are of course entitled to your own opinion or rather the one that is force fed thru networks geared for entertainment purposes.

 

[Gsmack_42]

Boy they sure throw that word around to much any more. As to elite players to me they have to be HOF to borderline HOF.

 

[TannDaMan17]

Perhaps I should have been more specific. If you think the amount of passes that Manning threw vs Carolina is any indication of his impact on the games outcome you are severely lacking knowledge of a QB's responsibilities and how they can influence the game in the presnap phase.

You though are of course entitled to your own opinion or rather the one that is force fed thru networks geared for entertainment purposes.

Dude seriously, I know Manning is an all time great QB, but even he recently joked at the ESPY's that Denver's D carried him to that victory. Like Manning literally said he wasn't stupid, I mean it was pretty obvious, Manning had a good first drive then Cam proceeded to S himself and it was all downhill sledding from there from Manning's perspective. Denver's defense almost entirely won the game on their own, with just a little help from the O which is all they needed. For someone who loves defense so much, I would think you would understand this, Manning certainly does.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Dude seriously, I know Manning is an all time great QB, but even he recently joked at the ESPY's that Denver's D carried him to that victory. I mean it was pretty obvious, Manning had a good first drive, then Cam proceeded to S himself and it was all downhill sledding from there from Manning's perspective. Denver's defense almost entirely won the game on their own, with just a little help from the O which is all they needed. For someone who loves defense so much, I would think you would understand this, Manning certainly does.

Of course Denver's defense was a huge reason they won, it was the major reason. That said, Carolina also had a superb defense but Manning consistently put them in the best possible position every snap in order to overcome that.

Thanks for clarifying your reliance on the networks. Can I assume that you believe that the jest b/w Manning and Kevin Durant was off the cuff as well?

 

[TannDaMan17]

Of course Denver's defense was a huge reason they won, it was the major reason. That said, Carolina also had a superb defense but Manning consistently put them in the best possible position every snap in order to overcome that.

Thanks for clarifying your reliance on the networks. Can I assume that you believe that the jest b/w Manning and Kevin Durant was off the cuff as well?

Sure whatever, go Dolphins.

 

[DuderinoN703]

Brady is good...great, but I think Belichick is a little more instrumental to the success with NE, then Brady. Put another head coach on the Patriots, and Brady does not have that type of success, but it seems every time Brady goes down or is suspended, Patriots still continue win.

Though each and every SB that has been won by the Patriots does have either some type of controversy or some lucky mistake to help them win, Bill proved to be a big reason to get that far.

No way to know for sure. Yes Belichick and company won 11 games in 2008 without him. With Garrapolo/Brisett they went 4-0. Is that all on Belichick? No. Some absolutely.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

But considering Belichick's legendary head coaching career completely turned around for the better as soon as Brady came in, says a lot about the talent of Brady.

Ask yourself this question: If it's all about Brady, why is he the 17th best paid QB in the NFL?

Brady is paid less than QB's such as Flacco, Dalton, Smith, Osweiler, Stafford, and Glennon

I mean if he's the greatest QB to ever play the game why not just leave for another team, strike the largest contract ever paid out in the NFL, and go win SB's from there?

It's because he knows he is nothing apart from Belichick and could accomplish no such feats by himself.

 

[Daytona Fin]

There aren't too many elite coaches to go around as compared to elite players. The team with more superstars is usually going to be set up for success than those with less. That was one of our biggest problems the last decade or so. The rosters were so depleted of talent, hard for any coach to have success.

 

[DuderinoN703]

I don't pay attention to other major sports and they are all vastly different from football team-wise so I won't comment on them, but I ask: Who made Brady and taught him everything he knows?

Yes, Brady is an elite QB, but if it wasn't for Brady, Belichick would have found success with another QB that encompasses his traits of leadership, work ethic, and intelligence

Sports share a common theme in that championship teams have a collection of elite/HOF players on them. This holds especially true in the NBA. It's easier in that league due to the small number of players on the team. MLB is different due to how many games are played during the season and how big a team's payroll is.

No way to know if Belichick would've found success elsewhere.

 

[DuderinoN703]

Ask yourself this question: If it's all about Brady, why is he the 17th best paid QB in the NFL?

Brady is paid less than QB's such as Flacco, Dalton, Smith, Osweiler, Stafford, and Glennon

I mean if he's the greatest QB to ever play the game why not just leave for another team, strike the largest contract ever paid out in the NFL, and go win SB's from there?

It's because he knows he is nothing apart from Belichick and could accomplish no such feats by himself.

Brady is paid less b/c he's smart like Tim Duncan was. He already has money. Why not help the team out by taking less when it gives you a better chance of winning? This is the opposite of MLB of course since there is no cap. Guys like Harper can command a $400 million contract and not give a damn about saving money for the team.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Sports share a common theme in that championship teams have a collection of elite/HOF players on them. This holds especially true in the NBA. It's easier in that league due to the small number of players on the team. MLB is different due to how many games are played during the season and how big a team's payroll is.

No way to know if Belichick would've found success elsewhere.

Except that he was on his way to success in Cleveland the season prior to Modell selling and moving the team to Baltimore. Although it's a limited sample, also in NE without Brady.

 

[phintim]

Fair point but I think that team had weak links. No running game for example

IMO this was because of the design of the offense as it was early west coast. Many puntiffs wanted to blame the Oline but then again Danny never got sacked. Also the defense was blamed quite alot but they were on the field a tremendous amount of time because of their offense could not stay on the field

 

[DuderinoN703]

Except that he was on his way to success in Cleveland the season prior to Modell selling and moving the team to Baltimore. Although it's a limited sample, also in NE without Brady.

Belichick was 20-28 in the 3 seasons before making the playoffs in 1994 (went 11-5 and won a game). They were 5-11 the next year. Overall he was 36-44.

He was 5-11 with NE in his first year (2000). It was only until Bledsoe got hurt in Week 2 that NE would never be under .500 again at the end of the year. Brady finished the game in Week 2 (10-3 loss) and started from Week 3 on.

Without Tom Brady, Bill Belichick as a HC was 41-56. After he was what he is today. Brady is essentially Jesus Christ Superstar.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Belichick was 20-28 in the 3 seasons before making the playoffs in 1994 (went 11-5 and won a game). They were 5-11 the next year. Overall he was 36-44.

He was 5-11 with NE in his first year (2000). It was only until Bledsoe got hurt in Week 2 that NE would never be under .500 again at the end of the year. Brady finished the game in Week 2 (10-3 loss) and started from Week 3 on.

Without Tom Brady, Bill Belichick as a HC was 41-56. After he was what he is today. Brady is essentially Jesus Christ Superstar.

It was his first HC gig and there's a process of establishment. It's pertinent to remember his innovation of pass coverage concepts as well and implementing his system.

Belichick has been able to move on from every single player in the past that has left either thru contract demands or trade. There's no doubt he could move on without Brady by finding another QB with similar traits.

Let's leave fictional comparisons out of this.

 

[DuderinoN703]

It was his first HC gig and there's a process of establishment. It's pertinent to remember his innovation of pass coverage concepts as well and implementing his system.

Belichick has been able to move on from every single player in the past that has left either thru contract demands or trade. There's no doubt he could move on without Brady by finding another QB with similar traits.

Let's leave fictional comparisons out of this.

All I've stated from a numerical standpoint is facts. If Belichick was to go to a different organization do I believe he'd have success there? Most likely. But IMO he's helped immensely by having a talent like Brady at the helm.

I mean ****. Tom Brady played 4 years at Michigan. In his career he threw a total of 4,773 yards, 30 TDs and had 17 INTs. DeShaun Watson by comparison had 4,593 yards, 50 TDs (41 pass/9 rush), and 17 INTs in 2016 alone.

Brady is an anomaly that us Dolfans have been stuck with FOREVER.