The Fumble: Tannehill Checked Out of a Run Play

[truedolfan57]

Not sure where you're getting your data, but according to PFF, all of the sacks on the year, prior to the Buffalo game, had occurred after 2.5 seconds.

how is the average for tannehill 2.48, if all sacks were after 2.5? or maybe i'm just lost.

 

[Shouright]

how is the average for tannehill 2.48, if all sacks were after 2.5? or maybe i'm just lost.

The 2.48 is the average time to throw, when he throws. Of course when he's sacked, he doesn't throw.

 

[truedolfan57]

The 2.48 is the average time to throw, when he throws. Of course when he's sacked, he doesn't throw.

after doing some reading, 2.48 is average time in the pocket. 2.28 is average time to attempt

 

[NY8123]

Not sure where you're getting your data, but according to PFF, all of the sacks on the year, prior to the Buffalo game, had occurred after 2.5 seconds.

May data comes from the snap of the ball (running timer) to contact, not the whistle, who gives a **** how long it takes between the whistle blowing and the snap of the ball.

PFF dropped the ball on this one, just like Cold Hard Football Facts did when I pointed out the obvious flaw in their newly minted running back rating system. They counted fumbles as a negative value toward the running back and not fumbles lost, in the QB rating formula you count interceptions, not nearly interception. It skewed the data and the same thing is happening here with PFF in this case,

if QB A takes x amount of time to survey the line of scrimmage after the whistle is blown and QB B takes y amount of time, x is not equal to y thus influencing time to sack when measured this way. The average time you want for your QB to throw is 3 seconds, from the dawn of the new passing era that is the time you want and the bench mark, not 2.5 or 3.5 but 3.

Notice on your beloved site where 2.48 ranks Ryan Tannehill in terms of the "whole" NFL in 2012.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

Yup that's right 31th. Notice on page 2 of the same write-up that PFF prints in black and white that Ryan Tannehill on 60% of his snaps in 2012 had less than 2.5s to throw, good for 3rd worst in the NFL.

And if you care to look at page 3 of this write up from PFF it clearly states the following:

For some players there’s a clear disparity between when they have 2.5 seconds or less, or 2.6 or more, time to throw. Take a look at Tom Brady. His completion percentage is 19.8% higher when he attempts a pass within 2.5 seconds. There aren’t many players who get more accurate when they have more time to throw but rookie Ryan Tannehill leads the way with the biggest improvement (2.8%) when he attempts a pass after 2.6 seconds or more. He also experiences the biggest improvement in his quarterback rating (29 points) while Ryan Fitzpatrick has the biggest drop off (39.6 points) when he has a longer time to throw

This offensive line is not better than last year, it isn't. Tannehill doesn't have the time to throw that he needs, he is constantly under pressure. With that said I put the loss on Sunday squarely on Ryan Tannehill, you still have to hold on to the ball and he is fumbling at an alarming rate. You have to know a bull rush is coming and your line sucks ass, you take a quick read, if it isn't there take the sack, punt and put the game on your defense.

The time to throw is horrible for Ryan Tannehill, just ridiculously horrible but he can still do some things to improve the results.

 

[MD]

May data comes from the snap of the ball (running timer) to contact, not the whistle, who gives a **** how long it takes between the whistle blowing and the snap of the ball.

PFF dropped the ball on this one, just like Cold Hard Football Facts did when I pointed out the obvious flaw in their newly minted running back rating system. They counted fumbles as a negative value toward the running back and not fumbles lost, in the QB rating formula you count interceptions, not nearly interception. It skewed the data and the same thing is happening here with PFF in this case,

if QB A takes x amount of time to survey the line of scrimmage after the whistle is blown and QB B takes y amount of time, x is not equal to y thus influencing time to sack when measured this way. The average time you want for your QB to throw is 3 seconds, from the dawn of the new passing era that is the time you want and the bench mark, not 2.5 or 3.5 but 3.

Notice on your beloved site where 2.48 ranks Ryan Tannehill in terms of the "whole" NFL in 2012.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

Yup that's right 31th. Notice on page 2 of the same write-up that PFF prints in black and white that Ryan Tannehill on 60% of his snaps in 2012 had less than 2.5s to throw, good for 3rd worst in the NFL.

And if you care to look at page 3 of this write up from PFF it clearly states the following:



This offensive line is not better than last year, it isn't. Tannehill doesn't have the time to throw that he needs, he is constantly under pressure. With that said I put the loss on Sunday squarely on Ryan Tannehill, you still have to hold on to the ball and he is fumbling at an alarming rate. You have to know a bull rush is coming and your line sucks ass, you take a quick read, if it isn't there take the sack, punt and put the game on your defense.

The time to throw is horrible for Ryan Tannehill, just ridiculously horrible but he can still do some things to improve the results.

Interesting that Tannehill is with Manning and Brady at the bottom and at the top of the list sits Russell Wilson at 3.14 seconds.

As for the fumbles, keep in mind that they are occurring from the hits he has taken. Once the line is cleaned up that number will drop significantly.

 

[Shouright]

May data comes from the snap of the ball (running timer) to contact, not the whistle, who gives a **** how long it takes between the whistle blowing and the snap of the ball.

Well then you'd need to collect league-wide data using that method to be able to compare Tannehill to other QBs in that regard.

 

[NY8123]

Interesting that Tannehill is with Manning and Brady at the bottom and at the top of the list sits Russell Wilson at 3.14 seconds.

As for the fumbles, keep in mind that they are occurring from the hits he has taken. Once the line is cleaned up that number will drop significantly.

It is encouraging that he sits with Brady and Manning, two of the smartest QBs to ever play the game. It means he knows where and what he is supposed to do with the ball at any given time, he just isn't getting the time to do it. Let's face it, in 2012 Manning and Brady had 100 times the receivers that Tannehill had as well.

I also agree, improved line play will help the fumbles. Once this kid actually has time to throw he will be fine but until then he needs to protect the ball since the lineman aren't going to do it for him.

 

[MD]

It is encouraging that he sits with Brady and Manning, two of the smartest QBs to ever play the game. It means he knows where and what he is supposed to do with the ball at any given time, he just isn't getting the time to do it. Let's face it, in 2012 Manning and Brady had 100 times the receivers that Tannehill had as well.

I also agree, improved line play will help the fumbles. Once this kid actually has time to throw he will be fine but until then he needs to protect the ball since the lineman aren't going to do it for him.

And I am not at all surprised by the lack of response to your post. Thats what happens when you live and die by a stat line.

 

[hoops]

LMAO!!!!

All of the people who blamed Sherman and Clabo are now just blaming Clabo.

They find out Ryan Runofthemill called the play and all of the sudden play calling isnt the issue anymore..... its execution. But, not Runofthemill's execution of course.... Clabo's.

i couldn't let this one go...before the regular season you were making "get real" threads and posts stating ryan tannehill is a franchise qb in the making...how this team was gonna win the division and maybe play in a superbowl even with this qb ...6 weeks later he's ryan run of the mill??? wow...way to stand by your convictions...

whats even funnier however is how you lambasted ck for adjusting his season win total on the fly after the first few wins in one of his bleacher report articles...raked him over the coals even...when you are doing exactly the same thing that ck did 6 weeks later about the qb...

people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

 

[MD]

i couldn't let this one go...before the regular season you were making "get real" threads and posts stating ryan tannehill is a franchise qb in the making...how this team was gonna win the division and maybe play in a superbowl even with this qb ...6 weeks later he's ryan run of the mill??? wow...way to stand by your convictions...

whats even funnier however is how you lambasted ck for adjusting his season win total on the fly after the first few wins in one of his bleacher report articles...raked him over the coals even...when you are doing exactly the same thing that ck did 6 weeks later...

people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

Honestly I started a response to that post and deleted it because I couldn't keep from laughing at our self proclaimed QB guru's flip flop not to mention blasting CK for making a change to his thought process.

 

[hoops]

Honestly I started a response to that post and deleted it because I couldn't keep from laughing at our self proclaimed QB guru's flip flop not to mention blasting CK for making a change to his thought process.

i gave ck hell for it also...on the fly adjustments don't seem genuine to me...but i stand by my convictions...that's just sad from wv frankly...6 games where the qbs been sacked more than any other qb in football and the team even admits the tackles are killing us by trading for a stop gap shot in the dark to correct it and he changes his tune...

not how i roll

 

[enigmatics]

As for the fumbles, keep in mind that they are occurring from the hits he has taken. Once the line is cleaned up that number will drop significantly.

How else would he fumble the ball?

I don't even want to hear that mess. Matt Moore two years ago got berated on this site for his fumbling even WITH the same O-line protection issues and people like you want to give Tanny a pass on it.

Protect the damn football! Moore needed to and so does Tannehill.

 

[Shouright]

And I am not at all surprised by the lack of response to your post. Thats what happens when you live and die by a stat line.

I'd be happy to "die" by any stats that permit league-wide comparisons, since I'd be simply learning from the best and most thorough kind of information possible, rather than truly "dying" in any way.

Some folks here seem to have some sort of competitive, "I win, you lose" culture set up here that I'm not really involved in, myself. :)

 

[hoops]

How else would he fumble the ball?

I don't even want to hear that mess. Matt Moore last year got berated on this site for his fumbling even WITH the same O-line protection issues and people like you want to give Tanny a pass on it.

Protect the damn football! Moore needed to and so does Tannehill.

difference is matt moore fumbled without contact...gamely

 

[enigmatics]

difference is matt moore fumbled without contact...gamely

The occasional bad qb/center exchange was NOT why people bitched. He got crushed behind a bad O-line in the same fashion and everyone whined their butts off about his fumbling problem.