The Guard Position | Page 18 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Guard Position

Fineas said:
Dolphins Other Receivers got receiving 1st downs at a MUCH higher rate than Mixon or Jacobs.
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I know this is off topic but...Hill and Waddle got a lot of passes thrown their way despite being covered. It is a testament to Tua's accuracy and their tenacity that a decent number of those turned into completions but it just feels like the better play in many of those instances was elsewhere--Berrios, Cracraft a TE or RB.

With the Washingtons--or at least one of them--and Jonnu I really would like to see the wear and tear reduced on Hill/Waddle and those other receiving options used far more often. Hill/Waddle can still be decoys running at 80-90% which aside from giving them a breather and avoiding some hard hits, might actually help set up their defenders for bigger plays.

Diversification is good even when you have a ridiculous tandem like Cheetah and the Penguin. It can only make them better on a per target basis and might help them stay healthier come playoff time.
 
Pacer said:
I know this is off topic but...Hill and Waddle got a lot of passes thrown their way despite being covered. It is a testament to Tua's accuracy and their tenacity that a decent number of those turned into completions but it just feels like the better play in many of those instances was elsewhere--Berrios, Cracraft a TE or RB.

With the Washingtons--or at least one of them--and Jonnu I really would like to see the wear and tear reduced on Hill/Waddle and those other receiving options used far more often. Hill/Waddle can still be decoys running at 80-90% which aside from giving them a breather and avoiding some hard hits, might actually help set up their defenders for bigger plays.

Diversification is good even when you have a ridiculous tandem like Cheetah and the Penguin. It can only make them better on a per target basis and might help them stay healthier come playoff time.
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Well said. Not to mention the element of surprise, esp if Hill or Waddle are doubled in coverage.
 
DOLFANMIKE said:
Love Robert Jones, but he may not make the Roster. He'll have to beat out Cotton IMO.

Armstead, Ajax, Driscoll, Brewer, Wynn, Eich, Lamm, Paul, and the vet we will sign soon that may be a starter at OG.
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I think the odds of another FA signee for the line are slim but if there is one they will be competing with the Joneses and Cotton to back up the guards and possibly also center. The rest plus Kion Smith go to PS but chances are they will be promoted and get some play this season unless poached.
 
Pacer said:
I know this is off topic but...Hill and Waddle got a lot of passes thrown their way despite being covered. It is a testament to Tua's accuracy and their tenacity that a decent number of those turned into completions but it just feels like the better play in many of those instances was elsewhere--Berrios, Cracraft a TE or RB.

With the Washingtons--or at least one of them--and Jonnu I really would like to see the wear and tear reduced on Hill/Waddle and those other receiving options used far more often. Hill/Waddle can still be decoys running at 80-90% which aside from giving them a breather and avoiding some hard hits, might actually help set up their defenders for bigger plays.

Diversification is good even when you have a ridiculous tandem like Cheetah and the Penguin. It can only make them better on a per target basis and might help them stay healthier come playoff time.
Click to expand...

That’s not how progressions work. The QB can’t sit there going back and forth between two receivers to decide who is more open. There’s not time for that and it would ruin the timing of the play, which is synchronized to the drop. Hill and Waddle are and should be the first reads. If they are open or getting open Tua should throw it to them. They have been phenomenally productive and efficient. They get plenty of rest — more than any other good starting receivers.
 
Fineas said:
That’s not how progressions work. The QB can’t sit there going back and forth between two receivers to decide who is more open. There’s not time for that and it would ruin the timing of the play, which is synchronized to the drop. Hill and Waddle are and should be the first reads. If they are open or getting open Tua should throw it to them. They have been phenomenally productive and efficient. They get plenty of rest — more than any other good starting receivers.
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I agree on throwing to the 1-2 reads when they are open, but when that is not the case move on to 3 or even 4 (a 4th option should be schemed into passing plays more often than not unless they are required to block a blitzer). Fins threw into double coverage way too often, maybe it was sneaky defensive adjustments maybe incorrect diagnosis by Tua maybe just a lack of inclination to keep checking down for surer first down plays that over time would help keep defenses honest.
 
DOLFANMIKE said:
Love Robert Jones, but he may not make the Roster. He'll have to beat out Cotton IMO.

Armstead, Ajax, Driscoll, Brewer, Wynn, Eich, Lamm, Paul, and the vet we will sign soon that may be a starter at OG.
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Cotton is easily our worst linemen and it’s not close. Like almost as bad as Eich at C but atleast Eich is solid at lg and rg. Cotton is awful at both guard positions.
 
Pacer said:
I agree on throwing to the 1-2 reads when they are open, but when that is not the case move on to 3 or even 4 (a 4th option should be schemed into passing plays more often than not unless they are required to block a blitzer). Fins threw into double coverage way too often, maybe it was sneaky defensive adjustments maybe incorrect diagnosis by Tua maybe just a lack of inclination to keep checking down for surer first down plays that over time would help keep defenses honest.
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Agreed!
 
Pacer said:
I agree on throwing to the 1-2 reads when they are open, but when that is not the case move on to 3 or even 4 (a 4th option should be schemed into passing plays more often than not unless they are required to block a blitzer). Fins threw into double coverage way too often, maybe it was sneaky defensive adjustments maybe incorrect diagnosis by Tua maybe just a lack of inclination to keep checking down for surer first down plays that over time would help keep defenses honest.
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I don't think it happened all that often and it happens sometimes with all QBs. The bottom line is that throwing to Hill/Waddle has been very efficient and productive, with a passer rating of around 110 each of the last two seasons and around 10-11 yards per target. I think we are talking about half a dozen or so passes each year that he shouldn't have thrown to Hill/Waddle. On those, yes, it would be better to throw to someone else, but I'm not eager to give up that 11 yards per target to Hill/Waddle in favor of 7-8 ypt to others on a regular basis.
 
Fineas said:
I don't think it happened all that often and it happens sometimes with all QBs. The bottom line is that throwing to Hill/Waddle has been very efficient and productive, with a passer rating of around 110 each of the last two seasons and around 10-11 yards per target. I think we are talking about half a dozen or so passes each year that he shouldn't have thrown to Hill/Waddle. On those, yes, it would be better to throw to someone else, but I'm not eager to give up that 11 yards per target to Hill/Waddle in favor of 7-8 ypt to others on a regular basis.
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Ah but what if those shorter plays keep the defense more honest and raise both the completion rate and ypt for Hill and Waddle, maybe with 10% less targets each. I just hate seeing incompletions or turnover/near turnovers when the 3rd or 4th option is wide open for a first down. As good as Tua and McDaniel are at scheming guys open and hitting them with catchable balls i think 70% completion rate should be very doable especially considering the high catch rates of Berrios, Smythe and the Washingtons. Heck if the run pass mix shifts a bit more to the former maybe 75% is within the realm of possibility.
 
Pacer said:
Ah but what if those shorter plays keep the defense more honest and raise both the completion rate and ypt for Hill and Waddle, maybe with 10% less targets each. I just hate seeing incompletions or turnover/near turnovers when the 3rd or 4th option is wide open for a first down. As good as Tua and McDaniel are at scheming guys open and hitting them with catchable balls i think 70% completion rate should be very doable especially considering the high catch rates of Berrios, Smythe and the Washingtons. Heck if the run pass mix shifts a bit more to the former maybe 75% is within the realm of possibility.
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I mean sure, if there was a good way to calibrate it so that Tua always threw to the perfect guy on every play that would be great. But ultimately he has to make a decision to throw or not to throw as he goes through his reads and it's never going to be perfect. I don't want to lose the aggressiveness that causes defenses to worry so much about the downfield stuff. I want Tua to play fast and decisively -- the success of the offense depends on it.
 
Pacer said:
I agree on throwing to the 1-2 reads when they are open, but when that is not the case move on to 3 or even 4 (a 4th option should be schemed into passing plays more often than not unless they are required to block a blitzer). Fins threw into double coverage way too often, maybe it was sneaky defensive adjustments maybe incorrect diagnosis by Tua maybe just a lack of inclination to keep checking down for surer first down plays that over time would help keep defenses honest.
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2.1 seconds doesn't allow him to get to many 3rd or 4th reads
 
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