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The New NFL - Positional Value - NFL Draft Round 1 value

Feverdream said:
I attribute this to childish impatience and a belief in Tua magic. So... you think differently? Fair enough, but at least take a look at your own motivations and then try to tell me that you aren't grasping at any theory that allows you to pick Tua with a clear conscience...
I watch these discussions and I'm left with the belief that the desire for a particular answer is influencing which 'study' or 'theory' you choose to push.
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The only thing childish about this thread is you...
 
Feverdream said:
The highest % of hits goes to teams who build their core first, rather than take their QB first.

Rather than asking a raw QB to save their jobs from the poor roster that they've assembled, smart Front Offices assemble the better roster first so that the youngster isnt overwhelmed... but some folks believe in Magic beans... and those poor QBs get ruined.
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Prove it...
 
NBP81 said:
Prove it...
Click to expand...
Well... let's take a quick and dirty look at the teams with double digit wins.
New England: Brady added when they were already good. Plus, he was a late round pick.
Buffalo: 1:7 Allen. One of the earlier hit successes.
Chiefs: Mahommes added when team was already very good and with a killer running game.
Ravens: Jackson added to an excellent team with a killer defense and rock solid line.
Houston: Watson added at
1:12 to a team that was contending.
49rs: Garrapolo after Patriots trained him. Team was already solid.
Seahawks: Wilson, 3rd round to good team.
Packers: you know the answer
Vikings... Cousins... duh.
Saints: FA Brees.

So... tell me again how a magic beans QB will cure all of our ills.
...make it entertaining at least.
 
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Feverdream said:
I find it odd that so many posters point to Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes and then miss the fact that both teams were already VERY GOOD before these guys were taken... in the middle of the round.
Almost as if they think we are also VERY GOOD and that a magic beans QB will suddenly make us as good as the Chiefs or the Ravens.
I attribute this to childish impatience and a belief in Tua magic. So... you think differently? Fair enough, but at least take a look at your own motivations and then try to tell me that you aren't grasping at any theory that allows you to pick Tua with a clear conscience...
I watch these discussions and I'm left with the belief that the desire for a particular answer is influencing which 'study' or 'theory' you choose to push.

Just my 2 cents, as always.
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That's why it's imperative to devote as many resources to the offense as possible/to build it as quickly as possible. Sashi Brown tried to do what you're suggesting, but he was fired before he could pick his QB. He also spent too many of his premium resources on D. In the real world, a HC and GM don't have that kind of time. Baltimore drafted Flacco in Harbaugh's first year. Despite Harbaugh's great overall record, and a SB win, there was speculation that Baltimore would move on from him. KC had built a great offense, and a large part of that was Reid's playcalling, but if Reid didn't find a competent QB in Smith, he wouldn't have been given the time to find Mahomes either.

In the three seasons prior to drafting Jackson, Baltimore had a record of 22-26, so saying that they were already very good isn't exactly accurate.

You should put a QB in the best situation possible, and there are multiple ways to do that. But, iirc, you want to forego QB to draft Chase Young, who has no bearing on improving the situation for the QB. If Miami does draft Tua, I'd like to see them sit him in 2020. This would give them any year to build the team around him. But, make no mistake, the clock is ticking, and Miami should build its offense up as quickly as possible. Even if they put off drafting a QB until 2021, they shouldn't waste time by spending premium resources on pass rushers or DT's.
 
Feverdream said:
That isnt a fact, it is merely your opinion.

Just like it is your opinion which one of these QBs is a 'franchise QB'.

Your 'logic' is merely cover for your desire to take a specific QB first and damn the torpedos.
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So do you think any franchise sitting there with the first pick and in need of a QB would have passed on Peyton Manning, John Elway, Andrew Luck, Vinny Testaverde, or Troy Aikman because "the core" of the team wasn't built yet?
 
Position Franchise Tag Transition Tag
QB $26,700,000 $24,276,000
DE $19,316,000 $16,338,000
WR $18,491,000 $15,926,000
CB $16,442,000 $14,534,000
LB $16,266,000 $14,080,000
OL $16,102,000 $14,666,000
DT $15,500,000 $12,321,000
S $12,735,000 $10,771,000
RB $12,474,000 $10,189,000
TE $11,076,000 $9,267,000

Per overthecap
 
Feverdream said:
Well... let's take a quick and dirty look at the teams with double digit wins.
New England: Brady added when they were already good. Plus, he was a late round pick.
Buffalo: 1:7 Allen. One of the earlier hit successes.
Chiefs: Mahommes added when team was already very good and with a killer running game.
Ravens: Jackson added to an excellent team with a killer defense and rock solid line.
Houston: Watson added at
1:12 to a team that was contending.
49rs: Garrapolo after Patriots trained him. Team was already solid.
Seahawks: Wilson, 3rd round to good team.
Packers: you know the answer
Vikings... Cousins... duh.
Saints: FA Brees.

So... tell me again how a magic beans QB will cure all of our ills.
...make it entertaining at least.
Click to expand...
Wow, what a subjective list. New England was not a good team when Brady took over. New England was 5-11 the year before Brady took over. As a matter of fact, the team looked dead in the water to me and I thought that there was a good chance that Bill Belichick was about to lose his job and never get another head coaching job again until Brady turned their fortunes around. New Orleans was a mess of a franchise and coming off a 3-13 record when they signed Drew Brees. The 49ers were coming off a 2-14 season and started the next season 0-8 when they traded for Garoppolo. You actually did a great job of making my point for me by you not knowing what you were talking about. The three teams on your list that I just mentioned did the exact opposite of what you are advocating. They went and got their QB before they built their "core". You could even make a great case that Miami is in better shape to bring in a franchise QB, because of all of the draft resources and cap space Miami has, than those three teams I listed.
 
rickd13 said:
Wow, what a subjective list. New England was not a good team when Brady took over. New England was 5-11 the year before Brady took over. As a matter of fact, the team looked dead in the water to me and I thought that there was a good chance that Bill Belichick was about to lose his job and never get another head coaching job again until Brady turned their fortunes around. New Orleans was a mess of a franchise and coming off a 3-13 record when they signed Drew Brees. The 49ers were coming off a 2-14 season and started the next season 0-8 when they traded for Garoppolo. You actually did a great job of making my point for me by you not knowing what you were talking about. The three teams on your list that I just mentioned did the exact opposite of what you are advocating. They went and got their QB before they built their "core". You could even make a great case that Miami is in better shape to bring in a franchise QB, because of all of the draft resources and cap space Miami has, than those three teams I listed.
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Seattle is another...in the 4 years previous, those teams never had a wining record, including Pete Carroll's first two season...after drafting Wilson they have not had a losing season. While they had a decent roster, it wasn't until Wilson was added that they became the consistent winner they are today. Hell, even after losing most of those players over the last few years, Seattle is still on top.

Anyways...I want to thank @Feverdream for not understanding the topic of the thread, wanting to turn it into the same argument he has in every other thread and taking a thread with a different intention and turning it into whatever this discussion is now. IF the topic is too complex mate, it is OK not to comment. There are a dozen of other threads to discuss the "build a team first or draft a QB debate". I know it is the one point you can make on these threads and you consistently do so...over and over and over. I really wish I could ban a particular person from this thread, not because you have a different opinion, but because you are not even commenting on the topic at hand.
 
Tannenbombs said:
Position Franchise Tag Transition Tag
QB $26,700,000 $24,276,000
DE $19,316,000 $16,338,000
WR $18,491,000 $15,926,000
CB $16,442,000 $14,534,000
LB $16,266,000 $14,080,000
OL $16,102,000 $14,666,000
DT $15,500,000 $12,321,000
S $12,735,000 $10,771,000
RB $12,474,000 $10,189,000
TE $11,076,000 $9,267,000

Per overthecap
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Interesting thing about that list, it starts with QB, the 2nd is the guy who's actively in charge of keeping the QB from attempting a pass, the 3rd is the guy catching that pass and 4th the guy who's defending WRs... While this makes sense, I tend to side with @j-off-her-doll 's opinion that OL should definitely be higher on that list. When buidling a team from scratch, I'd prioritize QB, OL, WR. A good passing attack its the most robust aspect of a football team, so it only makes sense to me that this is where you want to be good at first.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
That's why it's imperative to devote as many resources to the offense as possible/to build it as quickly as possible. Sashi Brown tried to do what you're suggesting, but he was fired before he could pick his QB. He also spent too many of his premium resources on D. In the real world, a HC and GM don't have that kind of time. Baltimore drafted Flacco in Harbaugh's first year. Despite Harbaugh's great overall record, and a SB win, there was speculation that Baltimore would move on from him. KC had built a great offense, and a large part of that was Reid's playcalling, but if Reid didn't find a competent QB in Smith, he wouldn't have been given the time to find Mahomes either.

In the three seasons prior to drafting Jackson, Baltimore had a record of 22-26, so saying that they were already very good isn't exactly accurate.

You should put a QB in the best situation possible, and there are multiple ways to do that. But, iirc, you want to forego QB to draft Chase Young, who has no bearing on improving the situation for the QB. If Miami does draft Tua, I'd like to see them sit him in 2020. This would give them any year to build the team around him. But, make no mistake, the clock is ticking, and Miami should build its offense up as quickly as possible. Even if they put off drafting a QB until 2021, they shouldn't waste time by spending premium resources on pass rushers or DT's.
Click to expand...
Good thing our coach got a five year contract, so he doesnt have to worry about doing an inefficient rush job.
 
rickd13 said:
So do you think any franchise sitting there with the first pick and in need of a QB would have passed on Peyton Manning, John Elway, Andrew Luck, Vinny Testaverde, or Troy Aikman because "the core" of the team wasn't built yet?
Click to expand...

I'd say, considering busts like Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf, that smart GMs would trade down and pick up a haul of picks they could use.
 
FSU Truth said:
Seattle is another...in the 4 years previous, those teams never had a wining record, including Pete Carroll's first two season...after drafting Wilson they have not had a losing season. While they had a decent roster, it wasn't until Wilson was added that they became the consistent winner they are today. Hell, even after losing most of those players over the last few years, Seattle is still on top.

Anyways...I want to thank @Feverdream for not understanding the topic of the thread, wanting to turn it into the same argument he has in every other thread and taking a thread with a different intention and turning it into whatever this discussion is now. IF the topic is too complex mate, it is OK not to comment. There are a dozen of other threads to discuss the "build a team first or draft a QB debate". I know it is the one point you can make on these threads and you consistently do so...over and over and over. I really wish I could ban a particular person from this thread, not because you have a different opinion, but because you are not even commenting on the topic at hand.
Click to expand...

ROFL... once again.
 
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