The Official Harvey Unga Thread | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Official Harvey Unga Thread

John Clay is a junior. The other guys you listed are...options. I wouldn't call them 'nice' options necessarily. Daniel Thomas doesn't look like a pro to me (slow, sloppy). Demarco Murray looks like a dancer, Evan Royster looks like a limited one-cut guy and Brandon Saine was recently (for whatever reason) given a UDFA grade by the national scouting service that provides the NFL with preseason scout grades on seniors. I haven't done anything on Shaun Draughn yet but nothing has ever particularly drawn me to him.


Absolutely... I like Daniel Thomas but he runs too upright and gets caught from behind....

Murray doesn't like contact (and apparently for good reason) because he can't stay on the field...

Clay is a masher between the tackles, probably the best guy mentioned here so far...

Royster's best fit is in a ZBS where he can one-cut and go...

Brandon Saine is the kid I like the best in this particular bunch, and the guy with the ability and opportunity in front of him to increase his stock the most...

Draughn wasn't even the leading rusher on his team last year at UNC and will continue to split carries with Ryan Houston...

Not a flattering bunch of RB's unless Ingram, Ryan Williams, Quizz, and Montel Harris declare... and I think Damien Berry, Anthony Allen and Delone Carter are three of the better senior RB prospects than they're given credit for...
 
I watched his film. He is OK. 3rd seems a little high for him but he is more then a 6th. I say maybe 4th but I can see why Miami would be intyerested in him. He is a big physical inside runner with good vision. Maybe a 3rd is needed to be sure that Miami lands him.
 
A 3rd round pick is too high for Unga.... He's worth giving up a 5th rounder for in the supplemental draft.. that's about what his TRUE value is... but there's probably quite a few teams that would be willing to part with a 5th for this kid.... meaning whoever jumps on him willing to part with a 4th is likely to get him...

You rarely see teams willing to part with more than a 4th round pick for prospects in the supplemental draft.... and this kid just doesn't bring enough special qualities to the table at RB to warrant more than that...especially in a league where the two-back system is the trend.... although he's as good of a pass catching back as there was in college football...

A fullback/running back tweener... although I tend to lean more towards fullback type skills and quality..
 
It's possible just because if you look at next year's seniors at RB then you don't see a very exciting class. The only guy with a full physical package looks to me to be Brandon Saine and he was just recently rated by the national scouting service the NFL uses for preseason rankings as a UDFA. I think they're nuts but obviously he's not a homerun prospect. The Oklahoma kid looks a little too Reggie Bush-ish to me and some folks question whether the Penn State kid is a little too much one cut and done. I haven't really evaluated the whole class yet and looked at which guys have shown tremendous durability but I know Saine hasn't yet, and if the others haven't then you could have an altogether scary situation where you may lose both Ronnie Brown (free agency) and Ricky Williams (retirement) and to replace them you have to dip into a draft where curiously the juniors decided to stay in school (rookie wage scale). At that point Miami would have to hope Lex Hilliard and/or Pat Cobbs can shoulder a load as one of the two main backs. and if that guy is Cobbs then they have to find someone that can fill his role which they didn't really adequately do a year ago.

I wouldn't forecast a 3rd though. I just don't see this regime going into a draft with zero picks on the second day, even considering their proclivities toward moving down and trading players to acquire more picks.

What about Daniel Thomas, KSU? I didn't see any KSU games last year, but Gil Brandt says he's good good speed and versatility and his size is pretty good - could be an option at the wildcat?
 
Brandon Saine is the kid I like the best in this particular bunch, and the guy with the ability and opportunity in front of him to increase his stock the most...

That's funny because I've been bytching about that preseason national scout grade since I heard about it. I wrote this for the Universal Draft website back on June 19.


Name: Brandon Saine
Team: Ohio State University
Position: Running back
Number: 3
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 219 lbs
40 Time: 4.43 (est.)
Hometown: Piqua, Ohio

2009 Stats: 145 Runs, 739 Yds, 4 TDs. 17 Rec, 224 RecYds, 2 RecTDs.
2010 Stats: N/A

Campus Profile:
Buckeye Bits: talented offensive threat blessed with a combination of breakaway speed and power … performed well during spring drills … also a capable receiver … made big strides in the winter weight program

2008 (Sophomore): was a hybrid factor in the Buckeye offense … 2-yard TD run against Ohio … 20-yard reception from Terrelle Pryor against Penn State … special teams dog tags: Illinois … second-year letterman

2007 (Freshman): rushed for 267 yards and two scores as a true freshman in 2007 … gained 28 yards rushing and caught a touchdown pass in Akron win … 37-yard TD at Washington … leading rusher (69 yards) and receiver (76) against Kent State … team’s outstanding first-year player on offense … special teams dog tags: Akron … first-year letterman

High School: Ohio’s 2006 Mr. Football after rushing for 1,895 yards and 27 touchdowns on 259 carries and totaling 412 yards on 30 pass receptions as a senior … Parade All-American … runs a 4.35 40-yard dash … rated as the No. 2 overall prospect in Ohio … garnered all-state, all-conference and conference player of the year honors as a junior and a senior … rushed for 240 yards on 30 carries and scored three touchdowns to lead Piqua to the 2006 Division II state championship …100- and 400-meter Division I state track champion … Offense-Defense All-American Bowl, helping lead the East squad to a 24-18 victory … owned a 3.3 GPA

Personal: son of Wendi Croft … has two siblings … a business administration major at Ohio State … 2008 Big Ten all-academic

6/19/2010 - Comments - Background: Brandon Saine is a former 4-Star recruit, rated by Rivals as the #5 running back in the country in 2007. He did not redshirt as a freshman at Ohio State, but he stepped into a situation where both future 1st round pick Chris 'Beanie' Wells and Maurice Wells were firmly established, and it didn't help that Todd Boeckman and later Terrelle Pryor were significant factors in the ground game as mobile Quarterbacks. Saine was also recruited in the same year as another top recruit (4-Star, Rivals' #18 RB in Nation) Dan Herron. This has proved to be a crowded backfield for Saine to navigate through for reps, and so his lack of statistics in 2007 and 2008 are not surprising. An injury which required minor knee surgery in 2007 did not help. More injuries during the 2008 season also did not help and if he suffers any more injuries in 2010 he may be bumped way down the draft boards of teams that require explicit shows of durability in their backs. Given a shot in 2009 to replace the departing Beanie Wells, Saine proved more effective as a yard gainer than his fellow recruit Herron, and he put together a full season without missing any action. He has never been in trouble off the field, that I have found, and in his interviews he sounds very humble, quiet and a little bit shy. -CK

6/19/2010 - Comments - Size/Speed: As you know we rarely trust listed heights/weights, and it's even harder to trust speed estimates. In the case of Brandon Saine, I don't believe the listings are that far off. He is not a squatty player, so I could believe him being a fraction of an inch above 6' tall. He is noticeably taller on the football field than his counterpart, the 5'10" listed Dan Herron. He showed up to Ohio State at a verified 205 lbs, and so 219 lbs is not unbelievable. He looked about 215 lbs in 2009, if I were to play the "guess my weight" game. As far as speed goes, a 4.43 is also an easy figure to believe, and based on what I have seen I would not put it past him to best that time in a Combine setting. Ohio State employs an Olympic medalist and former 400 meters world record holder as its speed coach, and he verified that as an incoming freshman Saine was about a 4.40 guy that could crack into the 4.3's. Jim Tressel noted that even though he ran with the team's middle size group, Saine could beat all of the team's smallest size group (DBs and WRs) in a foot race. He won four state track titles in high school, and was the national 60 yard dash champion. He holds the Ohio Division I record for the 100 meters at 10.38 seconds. Unofficially, he has supposedly been clocked as fast as 4.25 seconds in the 40 yard dash. That means nothing if you can't see his speed on the football field, but a little film watching will tell you that on the field or off it you can see that his speed is very real. In the games I've seen, once he broke into the open it was easy to see that he was obviously the fastest man on the field. -CK

6/19/2010 - Comments - Talent & Outlook: Early in his Ohio State career, he struggled with vision and timing, which along with some minor injuries and the presence of future 1st rounder Beanie Wells, helped keep him on the bench. He is more of a smooth glider than a chopper in the open field, but he's very disciplined and keeps his feet moving when mucked up in a pile. Though he's a glider, I wouldn't go as far as calling him a long strider. He possesses very good balance which helps him to break a fair amount of tackles after contact. With his kind of speed, Ohio State logically wanted his immediate contribution to the offense to come more in the passing game. However, early in his career he struggled with some of the finer concepts involved in being a significant receiving threat. From what I have seen, he has improved on this aspect of his game. He has shown the ability to execute chip blocking assignments and then quickly get into his route and catch the football. He is a deadly threat on play-action routes as well as wheel routes where he can easily get over top of linebackers and be a vertical threat a la C.J. Spiller. His pad level is OK, not great, but he does lower the shoulder to get more yards after contact and remembers to fall forward. I wouldn't go as far as calling him upright. His power and strength are not elite. One of the aspects of his game that makes him very interesting is the fact that he is a very high effort player, and this carries over to his ability to block in the backfield. From what I have seen, coaches can trust him to protect the passer, and he'll carry out his task with enthusiasm, at times knocking players to the ground. He has contributed big in some pretty big games against quality opponents. With the right senior season, and the right Combine measurements, and depending on which juniors come out, he could be a 1st/2nd round draft prospect. As things stand, the 3rd round might prove to be a more appropriate home for him based on his career to date. -CK

Not a flattering bunch of RB's unless Ingram, Ryan Williams, Quizz, and Montel Harris declare... and I think Damien Berry, Anthony Allen and Delone Carter are three of the better senior RB prospects than they're given credit for...

The juniors will dictate a lot in this upcoming draft. The draft has the potential to be a lot better than 2010 depending on the juniors. I like Anthony Allen. He's a little like Jamie Harper, a very talented tailback at Clemson that I'll also be looking to as a possible early entry into the Draft.
 
so lets just say he stays healthy and the new cba pays a rb on a franchise tag (again...assuming there is still a franchise tag) somewhere in the $7 mil range for 1 year...

you don't think it would be worth keeping him 1 more year under that #??? or at least tagging him and seeing what he could bring in trade...

it's a tough one for me...and i don't know what else we have coming up for free agency next year who could warrant it more...

Another year of Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams being here together is just another year that they don't move on and start developing replacements. It's one thing to bring them both back this year when the expiring CBA made it easy for Ronnie, and Ricky's contract still goes for one more year, and also while the team has other need areas stacked up so high that they can't even address them all (see FS, TE). It's another to bring Ronnie back yet again on an even more expensive contract (remember the 20% rule, he's got to make 20% more than this year if it's a franchise tag), and also re-signing Ricky Williams, all so that you can continue delaying finding another younger RB option that will take the reins.

I think you can bring one of the guys back, not two, and I know which one they prefer, and I know why.
 
i personally hope we use the wildcat a whole lot less this year...i think we have the horses now where we can play in the base and put points on the board...i just think we kill momentum too much with the cat sometimes and teams are much more prepared for it now...

b marshall imo means less wildcat to me...more running room for the rbs more open field area for the te's over the middle etc...

less wildcat please...

Maybe but I think Dan Henning is right when he says he needs to keep it going to give defensive coordinators something new to think about. Remember that the Wildcat didn't lose effectiveness because people "solved" it. It lost effectiveness because first Pat Cobbs got hurt, then Ronnie Brown got hurt which basically made the team nearly shelf it altogether, and what they were left with was the Pat White packages which Pat was not running particularly well. It's a juiced up running formation and it drives defensive coordinators and players nuts. It worked against the Colts, worked against the Chargers to my recollection, it helped us beat the Jets...it really lost effectiveness because of injuries not everyone catching up.
 
What about Daniel Thomas, KSU? I didn't see any KSU games last year, but Gil Brandt says he's good good speed and versatility and his size is pretty good - could be an option at the wildcat?

I've watched a fair bit of him. I don't really like him much. Not very good balance, sloppy runner, no breakaway speed, vision questionable.
 
I agree that a 3rd is too high but I wonder if the bidding could be fierce enough to up the price given his durability level and the likelihood of going to 18-game seasons.

I haven't watched that much 2007 BYU footage lately but I'm curious about what weight Unga was playing back then when he gained 1227 yards and 13 TDs on 244 carries (5.0 ypc) and he also caught 44 passes for 655 yards and 4 TDs. That's 1900 all purpose yards and 17 TDs for a college player on a 13 game schedule. Absolutely phenomenal. He caught 42 balls and had 15 total TDs in 2008 as well, but his total yardage was down to 1440. What changed? Had he started gaining weight? Would he look more dynamic at a lower weight again? Something to ponder.
 
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Well done on the reporting.

Yeah I wouldn't expect him to be moved to FB full time. Maybe some sort of F-Back role. Hell even Pat Cobbs has come out on the wing and blocked, and he's barely over 200 lbs.

Just to recap what I've been saying about Harvey Unga in case this turns into the Harvey Unga Thread until Thursday's Supplemental Draft, Miami's attraction to him has to do with his having played in 38 of his last 39 games at BYU, and his having averaged 20.9 touches per game over that time period.

To the Miami Dolphins, who place an emphasis on durability, this is an extraordinary show of durability and ability to play through minor nicks and injuries, and just recently he may have put the exclamation point on that ability of his by running between a 4.62 and 4.65 at 244 lbs, and jumping 35" vertically only two weeks after spraining his ankle while training for this Pro Day. Minor nicks and twists, sprains, pulled hamstrings, etc...they happen. Which players play through them? Which players avoid contact injuries?

Remember, the 18 game season is looming on the horizon. It's a lot like the rookie wage scale in that both the NFL and the NFLPA have reasons to want that to happen. Some are speculating that the 18 game season is the carrot that will get both sides talking enough to get this CBA ironed out in time to prevent a lockout. When the 18 game season happens, durability is going to become a bigger going concern. Also, rosters will expand. The speculation is that the practice squad will be no more, they'll be absorbed as full time players. Harvey Unga's excellent show of durability, as well as his versatility, could go a long way in getting him drafted by a team that is thinking ahead.

Great points. It is extremely hard to find the back that can be the do everything guy. This league is going to have three headed monsters on every roster to split the carries. It has already happened. Look at the two Super Bowl teams this year with the Colts and Addia and Brown (in their near future Mike Hart as 3rd down back) and the Saints with Bush, P. Thomas, and Bell. You got the closest thing to the traditional every down back, the scat back, and the 3rd down hybrid / FB - RB hybrid.

We got Ricky, Ronnie, Cobbs and now POTENTIALLY the FB/RB hybrid to take the pounding on 3rd downs. Diversity in roles and spreading the wealth. It has to be done within whatever permanent salary cap post 2011 we will have. And with the splitting of roles each every back will have to block, catch, and run. They each have their speciality but must be interchangeable if needed. The days of the traditiona all-everything back may be a memory in the NFL of the 2nd and 3rd decades of the 21st century.
 
Judge for yourself. Here he is in 2007:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0BbmFEQBg

That's a highlight video of the whole team but he's all over the place in that video. Particularly go to 3:35 and see two phenomenal plays of his.

Now you can check him out circa 2009, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1S1PsOtLE

Granted that is against a damn good TCU defense...but is he heavier? Is he slower? Was he hurt? Hard to say.
 
Salt Lake Tribune reported the Seahawks, Saints, Eagles, and Bucs as being the most visibly interested on the day of his workout, in terms of post-workout interviews etc.

Rotoworld are reporting that Unga is projecting as a fifth rounder. He starts looking like a better value bet at a fourth or fifth rounder. I certainly wouldn't break the bank for him. He's a WYSIWYG type, albeit a dependable one.
 
Personally, i'd rather pass on a suplemental draft pick, and particularly a RB with the roster that we have this year. I'd rather trade up next year - I think we will be drafting mid 20's - to get Ingram.
 
Personally, i'd rather pass on a suplemental draft pick, and particularly a RB with the roster that we have this year. I'd rather trade up next year - I think we will be drafting mid 20's - to get Ingram.

I'm thinking this as well . . . tho a 5th round pick would not be a bad deal at all for Unga. I especially like the idea of a Unga/Devine backfield. Talk about thunder and lightning . . . with Polite in the mix as well? That would be nasty.
 
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