The Super Bowl as a proxy for the Finheaven War

[BennySwella]

You get either or as you are given the opportunity. Not every team gets the chance to get an elite QB and not every can build an elite defense. There is a a lot of luck involved but the trick is managing and evaluating good talent on your roster through the draft and free agency how ever possible each year.

Value in the draft and free agency is key.

 

[Highzenga]

Strong defense and running game wins games but a hall of fame qb will make you a contender every year.

 

[FSU Truth]

Why not both?

Why does it have to be either or?

Can a team not have both a very good o-line, run game, and defense as well as a very good QB?

I don't think there is a person on the forum that would say "got the QB, alright guys **** it, draft no more, sign no more, we have all that we need"

Everyone wants to build a very good team...everyone wants playmakers, good offensive lineman, a strong pass rush and good run game. I don't know where the idea that getting a QB precludes one from obtaining pieces for the other parts of the team has come from, but it is an odd notion. I do believe that having a very good QB can help overcome some shortcomings of a team and teams who have excellent QB's tend to be consistently good for longer periods of time. What a QB allows you to do, is give you some really solid seasons in between the ebb and flow of the other parts of the team. That is Wilson does in Seattle right now. That was a great team, and it eventually broke apart, but because of Wilson excellent player, they maintain a chance at a playoff run each year, Seattle is on the upswing again and I expect that they eventually make a true run at a couple of super bowls until the current parts start to depart.

 

[phins_4_ever]

It is funny how people talk about Mahomes now. He was not an elite QB when it came to draft picks. he was projected 1st round but people mocked KC for taking him that high and even trading for him for that much draft capital.
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article224076765.html

Here are some pre draft evaluations beginning with one site comparing him to Stafford:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/27/patrick-mahomes-nfl-draft-scouting-report

and this one compared him to Jay Cutler:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/patrick-mahomes?id=2558125

This is all a 20/20 hindsight.

All the QBs mentioned so far were never considered "generational" talents or "elite" QBs prior to draft:
Jimmy G was considered a backup and the 49ers were mocked for trading a 2nd Round pick and NE was hailed as brilliant that they can trade their backups for 2nd Rounders.
Brady was a skinny dude with a decent college career, drafted in the 6th round and was 3rd string on NE's squad. Without the Jets knocking out Bledsoe we may never would have seen the NE Dynasty.
Rodgers was a severely flawed QB drafted late in the 1st and it took several years for him to become that elite QB.

The list goes on and on.

It is a list of teams not just taking a risk on QBs. They took on risks at flawed QBs. QBs which were prospects rather than "declared" generational talent. And all of these QBs had one thing in common to reach their potential: outstanding coaching.

 

[adamprez2003]

49ers are going to destroy the Chiefs. It shouldn't even be close

 

[Miami 13]

Chiefs are built for a decade of dominance. 49ers are this years Rams. Won’t make the Playoffs next year.

 

[royalshank]

Kind of reminds me of last year’s super bowl a bit. Elite QB (Brady) vs Elite D and Running Game (Rams).

You tell me which was more sustainable.

To be fair both teams last year had elite defenses. Jared from Subway could have played better than Jared Goff did. Don’t let the fact Brady was on that team that scored just 13 points in the win cloud things. Last year the team was defense and heavy running. The Rams were the team that had the better aerial assault.

 

[royalshank]

One made the playoffs while the other did not. And did you happen to look at the list of Patriots appearances vs returning Defensive Powerhouse teams in the past 20 years?

Not a single one of those loaded D teams ever returned to the super bowl. The only one that might qualify are the Legion or Boom Seahawks, but they also had an elite QB paired with their D.

Still though. Last year and this year it was defense that defined NE. Not Brady. And last year they had a great run game.

 

[royalshank]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that you don’t need strong D to win a super bowl. Most super bowl winners do have a strong D. But they also have an elite QB.

Sustained success begins and ends with the QB.

If you hit on an elite QB, you have a 10 to 15 year window to win Super Bowls.

If you build an elite defense you have 2 to 3 year window if you’re lucky.

This is a bit off. You need a great QB - we agree there. But without a complimentary D you aren’t winning ****. That’s why Marino, and Fouts before him and Rodgers and Brees and Favre etc don’t have as many rings as people seem to think. NE has never had a bad D in its SB victories. So you need both.

 

[royalshank]

Honestly I would have loved a Titans-49ers matchup and no its not for tannehill, I am a firm believer that you can still win football games old school with a good running game and great defense and both teams are that.

The 49ers are a perfect example of it, Hopefully this leads to teams focusing more on running the football and away from this spread offense and no I formation playbooks.
The Titans gave the chiefs a scare early on and beat New England and Baltimore with a punishing run game..

If SF wins, and they very well may, it once again will be proof positive that great offenses don’t win SBs UNLESS they can play complimentary football. The Chiefs D might be good enough right now to do just that.

 

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

It seems to me as if the coming Super Bowl is a metaphor for our simmering cold-war here at Finheaven.

On one side, we have the team with the best lines in the NFL. Frisco leads the NFL in Rushing AND Defense, while KCity is staffed with pretty boys and speed (my bias may be showing... ahem)

Corn Fed vs. WE GOTTA DRAFT A QB!!!! OMG!!!

I look forward to the coming war about team design. May the best side (gracefully) win.

Doesn't really matter what we think. The big question is which will Coach Flores/Grier choose? I think Flores is flexible, but will lean toward building for corn fed. Still, he won't say no to a top flight QB if the price isn't too steep.

 

[Birdmond]

This is a great post by the OP. I’m all about the 49ers but if Tua falls to 5 I’m fine pulling the trigger. If Tua is gone I’m all about trading down and going corn with the first two picks, maybe three.

 

[Buff]

Chiefs are built for a decade of dominance. 49ers are this years Rams. Won’t make the Playoffs next year.

I cant see why they wouldnt. Great defence, solid unning game, good WR and Samuels is a star in the making. All pro TE, Again, why wouldnt they go back to the playoffs.

 

[rickd13]

And mind you, both of these "elite QBa" we're drafted outside the top 5 in their respective drafts. In fact, every QB that played in the championship games were. Guess who was drafted the highest?

Garoppolo is not elite. Once again, times are changing. The NFL teams have become more aggressive when it comes to drafting QBs. Mahomes may not have been a top five pick, but KC made an aggressive move from the #27 pick in the draft all the way up to the #10 pick in the draft to acquire him. In the last three drafts since 2017 eleven QBs were drafted in the first round. Seven out of the eleven the team that selected them moved up in order to make the selection. Two of the four teams that did not move up already had the number one pick. Arizona selected Murray with the first pick after moving up in the previous draft to select Rosen in the top ten. The days of being cautious about when to draft a QB are over. It's time to be aggressive.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

This is a bit off. You need a great QB - we agree there. But without a complimentary D you aren’t winning ****. That’s why Marino, and Fouts before him and Rodgers and Brees and Favre etc don’t have as many rings as people seem to think. NE has never had a bad D in its SB victories. So you need both.

The actual argument = if you build an elite D, you won't be able to sustain it year over year; if you build an elite offense, you will be able to sustain it year over year. Would you rather have 1 or 2 (if you're lucky) runs at a SB or 10+? Inherent in the argument, if you build a great offense, you'll still have opportunities to build and rebuild a great defense during that window of 10+ years.

The most underrated aspect in all of this is the playcaller. They're closer in value to QB's than they are any other positional group. Two of best playcallers of the decade will face off in the SB.