The Wanny And Speilman Damage Toll

[Prakk]

We'll see, We'll see....

"Rick's problem was his trades, which seemed to give us the short end of the stick. However, I think the 2004 draft went very well, although I don't who that starter at LB is that someone else mentioned."

Agreed, but he was more or less on his own for only one year. I'm going to hold my water on evaluating him until that trade and draft class has a chance to pass or fail. In retrospect I don't think Wanny should ever had as much influence as he did over trades and drafts. This should be interesting as he will probably end his career assessing talent for recruitment at the college level. That has never been his strength.

 

[PressCoverage]

Would you have rather had Wale sit out all season. Come on, the one smart thing Wanny did was not overpay for an above average talent. .

actually, yes... they shouldn't have budged, especially if he was franchised.... i tell you right now, i'd bet a week's pay back then he would not have held out long into last season... the point of the franchise tag is to protect the team, and still offer a disgruntled player a rather massive amount of money...

and Ogunleye is not an "above-average" talent... he got a bit banged up last year for Chicago, but he has premier pass-rush moves, and isn't bad against the run...

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

couldn't Wally have been tagged a franchise player? wasn't he? if so, wouldn't he have commanded two No. 1 picks from any team that wanted him?

so what do they do? take a third and a slightly above average receiver... that, to me, was complete panic... for a guy who led the conference in sacks...

If you think anyone was giving the Fins 2 #1 picks for Ogun, you're mistaken. The problem with Ogun was we couldn't afford to commit any more big $ to defense. The franchise tag would not have solved that problem.

this is the NFL... you don't give away mid- early-round draft picks and elite players for average, injury prone, or unproven veterans... ever...

Really? How do you explain the trade for Brett Favre by the Packers? Hasselback by the Seahawks? I'm sure there are others.

 

[Sirspud]

If you think anyone was giving the Fins 2 #1 picks for Ogun, you're mistaken. The problem with Ogun was we couldn't afford to commit any more big $ to defense. The franchise tag would not have solved that problem.



Really? How do you explain the trade for Brett Favre by the Packers? Hasselback by the Seahawks? I'm sure there are others.

I don't know much about the Hasselbeck trade, but Favre was a talented QB who was not fitting in his current city. Although he was unproven, it wasn't a Feely type situation where a guy who was drafted low and not widely known as incredibly talented gets a second round pick.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I don't know much about the Hasselbeck trade, but Favre was a talented QB who was not fitting in his current city. Although he was unproven, it wasn't a Feely type situation where a guy who was drafted low and not widely known as incredibly talented gets a second round pick.

GB also traded a first round pick (17th overall) for Favre (who was a 2nd round pick the year before). Interestingly, Favre was in 2 games for Atlanta in his rookie year. His stats? 0 for 5 with 2 interceptions.....

One other note, Ron Wolf (who traded for Favre) was the Jets GM in 1991. He wanted to take Favre but Atlanta took him one pick before the Jets. Wolf took BROWNING NAGLE instead.

The Jets almost got Favre but had to settle for Nagle :rofl3:

 

[Anthony3454]

actually, yes... they shouldn't have budged, especially if he was franchised.... i tell you right now, i'd bet a week's pay back then he would not have held out long into last season... the point of the franchise tag is to protect the team, and still offer a disgruntled player a rather massive amount of money...

and Ogunleye is not an "above-average" talent... he got a bit banged up last year for Chicago, but he has premier pass-rush moves, and isn't bad against the run...

Okay, so let's say he was bluffing. He signs the tender and plays last season. We are still a last place team. He becomes an unrestricted FA and leaves in the offseason. We get no compensation. A starting Wr and a 3rd round pick is pretty good value. I still don't think he's anything special talent wise. To add to that he's too small to play DE for Saban and not athletic enough to play OE like JT.

 

[PressCoverage]

If you think anyone was giving the Fins 2 #1 picks for Ogun, you're mistaken. The problem with Ogun was we couldn't afford to commit any more big $ to defense. The franchise tag would not have solved that problem.

of course no one would... but that was the point... make him sit and stew, or play for Miami.... not capitulate...

as for the money on defense, that again is Wannspeil's fault... why, then, give so much to Reggie Howard when you've already drafted Will Poole and have Madison and Surtain?

Really? How do you explain the trade for Brett Favre by the Packers? Hasselback by the Seahawks? I'm sure there are others.

you've got to be kidding... you refer to two of the most extreme success maneuvers in the past 20 years as if they equate to the normal and routine business practice of the Miami Dolphins the past 4 years?... and please don't compare the consensus opinion of Favre and Hasselbeck at the time to a guy like AJ Feeley...

 

[Sirspud]

of course no one would... but that was the point... make him sit and stew, or play for Miami.... not capitulate...

as for the money on defense, that again is Wannspeil's fault... why, then, give so much to Reggie Howard when you've already drafted Will Poole and have Madison and Surtain?




you've got to be kidding... you refer to two of the most extreme success maneuvers in the past 20 years as if they equate to the normal and routine business practice of the Miami Dolphins the past 4 years?... and please don't compare the consensus opinion of Favre and Hasselbeck at the time to a guy like AJ Feeley...

Consensus opinion is everything. When AJ did well in 2002, I still didn't hear sports reporters saying that he was special and that he was gonna find himself starting for another team.

 

[PressCoverage]

Okay, so let's say he was bluffing. He signs the tender and plays last season. We are still a last place team. He becomes an unrestricted FA and leaves in the offseason. We get no compensation. A starting Wr and a 3rd round pick is pretty good value. I still don't think he's anything special talent wise. To add to that he's too small to play DE for Saban and not athletic enough to play OE like JT.

fine. but it's about value and trade potential... say he capitulates and takes the franchise tag.... they'd have had all year to later work out a long term deal, or trade him without the pressure of pulling the trigger hastily on the eve of last season... i do hope Crowder is the real deal, and we may have gotten fortunate with that slot... but in terms of value, i felt Ogunleye commanded much more....

especially rather than a slow possession receiver who didn't even want to come here...

 

[Justasportsfan]

Really? How do you explain the trade for Brett Favre by the Packers? Hasselback by the Seahawks? I'm sure there are others.

So who is Wanny's version of Farve or Hasselback? RW?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

of course no one would... but that was the point... make him sit and stew, or play for Miami.... not capitulate...

as for the money on defense, that again is Wannspeil's fault... why, then, give so much to Reggie Howard when you've already drafted Will Poole and have Madison and Surtain?




you've got to be kidding... you refer to two of the most extreme success maneuvers in the past 20 years as if they equate to the normal and routine business practice of the Miami Dolphins the past 4 years?... and please don't compare the consensus opinion of Favre and Hasselbeck at the time to a guy like AJ Feeley...

I never said it was normal or routine. You said it was not done...EVER.... I merely proved you wrong.

I love people who try revisionist history. Hasselbeck was a 6th round selection by the Packers with 13 pass completions in two years. His first year in Seattle was not good (7 TDs, 8 Ints). How is that different than Feeley?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Consensus opinion is everything. When AJ did well in 2002, I still didn't hear sports reporters saying that he was special and that he was gonna find himself starting for another team.

That's funny, I heard that other teams were bidding for his services.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Consensus opinion is everything. When AJ did well in 2002, I still didn't hear sports reporters saying that he was special and that he was gonna find himself starting for another team.

Please.....

What about the consensus that Tom Brady was only worth a 5th round pick, or that Kurt Warner couldn't play in the NFL. How about the consensus that Ryan Leaf was a top two pick in the draft.

Show me a GM that makes his decisions by the consensus opinion and I'll show you an unemployed GM.

A GM has no choice to work in a world of uncertainty. Fans have the luxury of

(a) 20/20 hindsight
(b) revisionist history
(c) making statements about what 'they would do' with no one keeping score
(d) claiming what they would have done with no way to disprove it

 

[Dolphin North]

Simmer down friend. It's supposed to be a fun time coming here and posting. Not getting all upset over a team that doesn't even know you exist.

True, but that's gonna leave a mark. Anyway, he's just being passionate about a team he loves to see succeed, like the rest of us. Unfortunately, he's right that the damage has been done, and like all new coaches, Saban will need a couple seasons to turn over the roster and make it truly his team. Patience ofr us all. But at least we are on the way back now.

 

[PressCoverage]

I never said it was normal or routine. You said it was not done...EVER.... I merely proved you wrong.

I love people who try revisionist history. Hasselbeck was a 6th round selection by the Packers with 13 pass completions in two years. His first year in Seattle was not good (7 TDs, 8 Ints). How is that different than Feeley?

and i love you as well, even though i'm not revising history... but, besides the fact that at least 5 teams were bidding very hard for Hasselbeck, including the Dolphins, he was just a far, far better talent... wasn't hard to see ... especially considering the Seahawks moved down 7 slots in the first round of the 2001 draft in a trade for him...

anyhow, perhaps i should have been more clear... trading away top talent and high draft picks for unproven or average veterans is not done 5-6 times in two years EVER... at least not by a GM-coach/GM who expect to keep their jobs...

and what about Gordon? considering we gave away yet ANOTHER third-round pick for him... i suppose we could simplify it like this: Ogunleye for Booker and Gordon?

i won't get started on how i am not a Gordon supporter, never have been...