The Wanny And Speilman Damage Toll | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Wanny And Speilman Damage Toll

According to some of the trainers I have spoken with they said last year was a total clusterf@@@. They said Ricky did the right thing and were actually suprised more people did the same (although Chidi Ahanatou did). They said there was no leadership, no moral and noone supported the coaches because what they were doing was ridiculous. It improved slighltly when Bates took over, but the actual staff had become a cancer. The most supported coaches always got the shaft and the least qualified seemed to get ahead. There was no gameplan, no fire.

Just thought I'd bring it up because it seeems to validate what I thought was going on behind the scenes the whole time. Apparantly some of the anger at Ricky was also because he was doing something others wish they could do.

I guess my overall point is enjoy the info and if we were able to somehow win 4 games last year and keep every game except one close; imagine what is possible now.
:)
 
PressCoverage said:
actually, yes... they shouldn't have budged, especially if he was franchised.... i tell you right now, i'd bet a week's pay back then he would not have held out long into last season... the point of the franchise tag is to protect the team, and still offer a disgruntled player a rather massive amount of money...

and Ogunleye is not an "above-average" talent... he got a bit banged up last year for Chicago, but he has premier pass-rush moves, and isn't bad against the run...
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I'm not positive on this, but he probably would've sat out till like week 10, than he can comeback and would've still been an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. It seems that the trades made by Spielman were out of desperation, rather than being fully thought out. The consensus on AJ was that he had talent after winning a few games for the Eagles, but then why didn't the Eagles trade him then when his value would've been significantly higher? I think Wale is gonna have a good year and the Bears have a pretty good defensive line, while I wouldn't put him in the elite categoy of defensive ends which I believe is Taylor/Pepper/Freeney/Strahan, I think he's a notch below that and still a good player. I'm gonna throw out the 2004 draft, because whether it turns out productive or not may not be seen because they were players that Spielman thought would help the team, and they may not fit into the type of system that Saban wants to run.
 
DZimmer000 said:
.................
* A. Ogunleye for Marty Booker and a 3rd rounder (which became L Gordon)? Umm....I'm sorry, but at the time A.O. was one of the top 5 DE's in the league...PERIOD!! You can't get a first rounder for him? Good DE's come along just slightly more frequently than Haley's F**king COMET BUT YOU GET A 3rd and a slightly-above-average-receiver for a top 5 DE? But I will say Booker and Gordon have played awesome since they've been here. :shakeno:

I rate that move a 3
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We couldnt get a first for Wale....we tried. We got a third round pick and a former pro bowl WR, and we got rid of the salary demands that would have wrecked our cap (which the Bears knew about of course)

IMO your other grievances are valid, but the Ogunleye trade was fair.
 
Dang, I cannot BELIEVE that Wilson used a FIRST ROUNDER to get Rick Norton! Then Shula picks Kumerow and gives Eric Green a HUGE FA contract!! And JJ, he could've had Moss, but gets Avery instead!!! With another first round pick!!!! Then Wanny does this!!!!! WAAAAAAH!

Stop living in the past. Let's go from here...
 
the point of the thread is to speculate whether or not the franchise has been set back by the most previous regime... i, for one, agree that it certainly has been.. perhaps 2-3 years...
 
No speculation is required. Of course they set us back. However, we are where we are and complaining about the past, especially when there is nothing to be done about it, is just plain negative. Again, lets move forward!
 
pilotfish said:
No speculation is required. Of course they set us back. However, we are where we are and complaining about the past, especially when there is nothing to be done about it, is just plain negative. Again, lets move forward!
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alright Pilot... if no speculation is required, perhaps that eliminates 99% of these forums then... we're all speculating.... about everything we submit here.... it's the whole point of a fan message board... discussion...

ya
 
Perhaps I wasn't clear. There is no need to speculate that Wanny and Spielman hurt us. The evidence is indisputable. I'd simply rather speculate as to the tremendous amount of success that the Dolphins will have under the new regime as opposed to kicking a dead horse.
 
PressCoverage said:
the point of the thread is to speculate whether or not the franchise has been set back by the most previous regime... i, for one, agree that it certainly has been.. perhaps 2-3 years...
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Absolutely correct. And none of this is second guessing. You nailed it in a previous post by emphasizing value. Spielman made a couple of excellent value pickups in David Boston and Will Poole. Those were apparent from the outset. Otherwise he was remarkable at surrendering diamonds in return for mulch. I'm still in hysterics every time a poster writes something like, "if Feeley works out and Carey becomes a starter at LT then Spielman is vindicated." That is base ignorance. You overpay and you lose. The margins of error are so miniscule you can't afford to pretend someone else's 3rd teamers will miraculously bloom in South Florida. That was Speilman's persistent mindset and it earned him every bit of a disastrous one year as GM and a soiled reputation around the league. The overwhelming majority of posters in this forum continue to underestimate how pathetic Spielman's personnel moves were, and how far our talent base plummeted as a result.
 
DZimmer000 said:
Guys,

* A. Ogunleye for Marty Booker and a 3rd rounder (which became L Gordon)? Umm....I'm sorry, but at the time A.O. was one of the top 5 DE's in the league...PERIOD!! You can't get a first rounder for him? Good DE's come along just slightly more frequently than Haley's F**king COMET BUT YOU GET A 3rd and a slightly-above-average-receiver for a top 5 DE? But I will say Booker and Gordon have played awesome since they've been here. :shakeno:

I rate that move a 3
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If you slam Rick for only getting WR Booker & a 3rd(Crowder) for Ogunleye would like to see your post slamming Saban for only getting a 2nd (Roth) for Surtain, a top 5 CB. I looked up your posts and couldn't find any, but if I missed it please post a link.
 
DZimmer000 said:
Guys,

Seriously, How much damage have these 2 idiots done to this franchise? I honestly think Saban is the next great coach in this league, but with what those monkeys have done...It'll be 3 years before we're competing for an AFC East title. Think about the wonderful moves Bozo and Ronald made while running the ship:

* A 2nd rounder for A.J. Feeley? Are you kidding me? The Pats spent a 2nd round choice on C. Dillon. We got A.J. Freakin Feeley? But I will say he's played incredible since he's been here.:shakeno:

On a scale of 1 - 10 this move gets a 2

* Eddie Moore 49th over all? Huh? I had 4 draft publications and the highest he was rated was in the 5th round. He's played well since we got him though. :shakeno:
On a scale of 1 - 10 that move rates a 2

* A 4th round pick to move up 1 - I REPEAT - 1 spot to select V. Carey? What the F**K is that? Call Minnesota's bluff for Christ's sake!!!! WHat's the worst that happens? We draft the best athlete on the board like you're supposed to do? But I will say V. Carey has set the world on fire so far. :shakeno:
I rate that move a 4 on a scale of 1 - 10.

* A. Ogunleye for Marty Booker and a 3rd rounder (which became L Gordon)? Umm....I'm sorry, but at the time A.O. was one of the top 5 DE's in the league...PERIOD!! You can't get a first rounder for him? Good DE's come along just slightly more frequently than Haley's F**king COMET BUT YOU GET A 3rd and a slightly-above-average-receiver for a top 5 DE? But I will say Booker and Gordon have played awesome since they've been here. :shakeno:

I rate that move a 3

OK...You get the point...I'm sure thare are MANY other gems you guys can recall. But the bottom line is...We're not goinna be a GOOD team for at least 2 more years. Thanks to Saban we'll be competetive..But we won't be GOOD. Just my opinion.
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im not against feeley having success a a dolphin by no means but when he does end up exiting for good, whether by being cut, released, hang nail whatever ... when he is gone we will finally be able to crank those last gritty grains of spielman out of the rear door of the dolphins franchise.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I'm still in hysterics every time a poster writes something like, "if Feeley works out and Carey becomes a starter at LT then Spielman is vindicated." That is base ignorance. You overpay and you lose. The margins of error are so miniscule you can't afford to pretend someone else's 3rd teamers will miraculously bloom in South Florida.
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If you are looking for ignorance, look no further than the text quoted above.

It is ignorant to assume that talent is perfectly evenly distributed in the league. It is ridiculous to assume that a third teamer on one team cannot possibly be better than second teamers or starters on another.

Phillip Rivers is a second teamer. Would anyone in their right mind use the 1st overall pick on a second teamer? Is he suddenly a worse player than when he was drafted? If the Fins traded a 1st round pick for Rivers (a second teamer) would you be up in arms?

It is disingenuous to claim that Feeley wasn't worth a 2nd round pick no matter what happens. Feeley cost what the seller was willing to take and the buyer was willing to pay. To claim Philly would have taken less is pure speculation. The final determination as to whether he is worth a second round pick can only be made after he has had a chance to prove his worth. I'm not saying he will prove to be worth it. I'm only saying that claiming he is not even if he works out is a ridiculous statement.

I've got a news flash, there are no gurarantees, especially for unproven players.
 
ermmm.... finfan, would you hire Wannstedt or Spielman if you owned an NFL franchise?
 
* A. Ogunleye for Marty Booker and a 3rd rounder (which became L Gordon)? Umm....I'm sorry, but at the time A.O. was one of the top 5 DE's in the league...PERIOD!! You can't get a first rounder for him? Good DE's come along just slightly more frequently than Haley's F**king COMET BUT YOU GET A 3rd and a slightly-above-average-receiver for a top 5 DE? But I will say Booker and Gordon have played awesome since they've been here. :shakeno:
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Hey Why are you bitching about this now, its a new era and do some research for Christs sake, Booker is a good wideout,and we got Crowder with that third rounder. As for Lamar he might be trade bait.
 
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