The Wanny And Speilman Damage Toll

[ChuckKLINGBEIL]

im not feeling good about trading Surtain for the 2nd rounder Roth
but we wont really know about that pick for a FEW years...
I really think speilman/wannys main downfall was recognizing good offensive linemen and ofcourse these 2 have never drafted or acquired a good QUARTERBACK EVER!! These guys wasted pick after pick

Feeley was a total mistake and I think that in the end that will be evident..

You can just see it when he plays, he's no good

 

[vanquenton]

If you are looking for ignorance, look no further than the text quoted above.

It is ignorant to assume that talent is perfectly evenly distributed in the league. It is ridiculous to assume that a third teamer on one team cannot possibly be better than second teamers or starters on another.

Phillip Rivers is a second teamer. Would anyone in their right mind use the 1st overall pick on a second teamer? Is he suddenly a worse player than when he was drafted? If the Fins traded a 1st round pick for Rivers (a second teamer) would you be up in arms?

It is disingenuous to claim that Feeley wasn't worth a 2nd round pick no matter what happens. Feeley cost what the seller was willing to take and the buyer was willing to pay. To claim Philly would have taken less is pure speculation. The final determination as to whether he is worth a second round pick can only be made after he has had a chance to prove his worth. I'm not saying he will prove to be worth it. I'm only saying that claiming he is not even if he works out is a ridiculous statement.

I've got a news flash, there are no gurarantees, especially for unproven players.

It is quite possible that Rivers will be trade bait next year. I, for one, would trade a first rounder for him. :)

 

[LtDan]

Guys,

Seriously, How much damage have these 2 idiots done to this franchise? I honestly think Saban is the next great coach in this league, but with what those monkeys have done...It'll be 3 years before we're competing for an AFC East title. Think about the wonderful moves Bozo and Ronald made while running the ship:

* A 2nd rounder for A.J. Feeley? Are you kidding me? The Pats spent a 2nd round choice on C. Dillon. We got A.J. Freakin Feeley? But I will say he's played incredible since he's been here.:shakeno:

On a scale of 1 - 10 this move gets a 2

* Eddie Moore 49th over all? Huh? I had 4 draft publications and the highest he was rated was in the 5th round. He's played well since we got him though. :shakeno:
On a scale of 1 - 10 that move rates a 2

* A 4th round pick to move up 1 - I REPEAT - 1 spot to select V. Carey? What the F**K is that? Call Minnesota's bluff for Christ's sake!!!! WHat's the worst that happens? We draft the best athlete on the board like you're supposed to do? But I will say V. Carey has set the world on fire so far. :shakeno:
I rate that move a 4 on a scale of 1 - 10.

* A. Ogunleye for Marty Booker and a 3rd rounder (which became L Gordon)? Umm....I'm sorry, but at the time A.O. was one of the top 5 DE's in the league...PERIOD!! You can't get a first rounder for him? Good DE's come along just slightly more frequently than Haley's F**king COMET BUT YOU GET A 3rd and a slightly-above-average-receiver for a top 5 DE? But I will say Booker and Gordon have played awesome since they've been here. :shakeno:

I rate that move a 3

OK...You get the point...I'm sure thare are MANY other gems you guys can recall. But the bottom line is...We're not goinna be a GOOD team for at least 2 more years. Thanks to Saban we'll be competetive..But we won't be GOOD. Just my opinion.

I basically agree except there is no way O-Gun was a top 5 DE in the league. Wasn't even the best on our team

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

ermmm.... finfan, would you hire Wannstedt or Spielman if you owned an NFL franchise?

Whether or not I would hire them is not relevant to the ridiculous claims and flat out false statements made by some. I just cannot help but respond to posts that use forcefully stated falsehoods to back up their arguments.

<statement> SPIELMAN SUCKED. HERE IS PROOF: NO TEAM EVER GIVES UP A HIGH PICK FOR AN UNPROVEN PLAYER... EVER!!!!

<response> ahhh, how about Favre and Hasselbeck, just off the top of my head.

<reply> Well not them.

 

[PressCoverage]

Whether or not I would hire them is not relevant to the ridiculous claims and flat out false statements made by some. I just cannot help but respond to posts that use forcefully stated falsehoods to back up their arguments.

<statement> SPIELMAN SUCKED. HERE IS PROOF: NO TEAM EVER GIVES UP A HIGH PICK FOR AN UNPROVEN PLAYER... EVER!!!!

<response> ahhh, how about Favre and Hasselbeck, just off the top of my head.

<reply> Well not them.

paraphrasing is definitely a week spot for you, isn't it?

... forcefully stated falsehoods? ... first of all, you're wrong, because the seahawks only swapped No. 1s with Green Bay, they didn't "give up a high pick"....

regardless, i believe i clarified what i meant ... feeley is/was no hasselbeck or favre... even back then i believe it was well-known that both had serious elite potential... and they were huge and extremely rare steals that came in exchange for moving down a few slots in the draft (as was the case with Favre, look it up)... not quite the same as reaching for an unproven third-stringer with a history of fumble problems for whom you trade away a second round pick straight up... that is a mindless attempt at a parallel...

you can hang your hat on disputing the wording of my original point if it makes you feel better inside... of course such a maneuver has been done in the NFL, yes, but you don't EVER make a habit out of it is what i meant.... and i'm quite sure you know what i meant.... as it pertains to the overall ineptitude of Miami's former GM and coach... which IS relevant to the thread, k?...

but really, what was a healthy debate has become a petty bit of squawking to prove a point that began taking on water the moment you hit the "submit reply" button the first time... yeah, it's not Wannstedt or Spielman's fault...

and Rich Kotite just had a bit of bad luck with the Jets...

 

[djfresh47]

the point of the thread is to speculate whether or not the franchise has been set back by the most previous regime... i, for one, agree that it certainly has been.. perhaps 2-3 years...

Yeah I think so also, i'm not confident in Aj, and I don't think a team can get by on a stop gap QB, unlike in some previous years. While many people think the Phins will contend this year, I don't think they will. I've stated this before but as good of a coach Saban maybe, it's gonna take some time for him to bring in his type of players, and I think many of the players on the team right now won't be on the team when I believe the team will contend. I think a QB will be the number 1 priority going into next season, and I think it's better to start him right away, so I think in Saban's 3rd year the team maybe a playoff team. I like the direction of the team, for the first time in along time, but I can't say that he's gonna be a great coach, because noone can predict that.

 

[djfresh47]

paraphrasing is definitely a week spot for you, isn't it?

... forcefully stated falsehoods? ... first of all, you're wrong, because the seahawks only swapped No. 1s with Green Bay, they didn't "give up a high pick"....

regardless, i believe i clarified what i meant ... feeley is/was no hasselbeck or favre... even back then i believe it was well-known that both had serious elite potential... and they were huge and extremely rare steals that came in exchange for moving down a few slots in the draft (as was the case with Favre, look it up)... not quite the same as reaching for an unproven third-stringer with a history of fumble problems for whom you trade away a second round pick straight up... that is a mindless attempt at a parallel...

you can hang your hat on disputing the wording of my original point if it makes you feel better inside... of course such a maneuver has been done in the NFL, yes, but you don't EVER make a habit out of it is what i meant.... and i'm quite sure you know what i meant.... as it pertains to the overall ineptitude of Miami's former GM and coach... which IS relevant to the thread, k?...

but really, what was a healthy debate has become a petty bit of squawking to prove a point that began taking on water the moment you hit the "submit reply" button the first time... yeah, it's not Wannstedt or Spielman's fault...

and Rich Kotite just had a bit of bad luck with the Jets...

The problem with Feeley is that noone has really seen him play great. Hasselbeck played great in a couple preseasons for the Pack, but noone has seen that from Feeley. Even if you look at his stats from his play with Philly, it's nothing great, and very average.

 

[PressCoverage]

look... i like feeley... at least better than Frerotte... he's tough, has a good arm and is a really likeable dude... i want him to succeed...

he's just not a second-rounder...

If Feeley turns out to be the starter or even a good backup, a 2nd round pick is not too high of a price.

Below are the QBs taken in the 1st or 2nd roound since 1990.

Good starter - 8
Some success/backup - 5
Flops - 22

well, you just supported the argument against Wannspiel... why bother coughing up a second-round pick on such a risky return then?...

anyhow, you might be willing to spend a second rounder on "even a good backup"... but i sure wouldn't...

 

[Strangeworld]

...anyhow, you might be willing to spend a second rounder on "even a good backup"... but i sure wouldn't...

LOL!

How someone can defend a tandem that single handedly DROVE this (once proud) franchise into the ground is beyond me. Wanny has nothing on his resume but a HISTORY of failure. The Man's proven his ineptitude time and time again yet some choose to DEFEND him??? HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[jtoomuch]

frankly, i'm surprised Saban has made so much progress already... it's a testament to his resolve....

I think Saban's progress is yet to be seen, though I hope it happens. So far the Saban era consists only of one exhibition loss. Not sure he has quite turned things around yet.

 

[FlyersCupCrazy]

Nothing wrong with the Booker move, Ogunleye proved myself and many other people right by not even sniffing his 15 sacks in Miami when he played for the Bears, and Marty wasn't too bad here. I'd rate other Wannstedt/Spielman moves like drafting Wade Smith ahead of the Booker deal. Also trading for Lamar Gordon? and maybe not pulling the trigger on offers for Zgonina? Some awful FA signings, bringing in RAY LUCAS! You neglected to mention many worse than the Booker one.