This Elam kid....

[FIN-IN-RI]

I found this in an article i was just reading:



Your thoughts on this comment.

I think he never makes the team.

 

[volk]

Well you seem pretty open-minded. :shakeno: What bearing does it have that the others who did rape her were not convicted?

You're right, I'm not very open minded on this. I know at least one date rape victim, and I know what this can do to a victim. I also have two daughters, so perhaps my judgement is a little clouded by my personal situation. I am not going to apologize for it, though, because my concerns about sex offenders are statistically borne out. That the others were not convicted, to me makes Elam's conviction all the more ominous. Maybe you think he was wrongly convicted...or maybe he was so guilty that the jury felt the victim's character issues just weren't great enough to outweigh Elam's returning to the scene to continue his unwanted sexual interaction?

Your statement that "HE NEVER SERVED ANY JAIL TIME" is ignorant.

No, it's a fact. He didn't serve jail time. I point this fact out for those who are saying this kid deserves his chance because he "served his time", and also for those who think "serving his time" has likely led to rehabilitation. I do find it a little ironic that you don't question the judge's sentencing of him, but you do question his conviction by a jury Of course, we all know that felons are always given an appropriate sentence, especially felons who are athletes

He has to deal with those consequences. The Dolphins I am sure looked into all of this.

Does he really have to deal with those consequences? Is signing with a pro football team three years after a felony sexual assault conviction and no jail time really "dealing with those consequences"? If you were the victim or the victim's father, would you still believe he is "dealing with the consequences"? Please :shakeno:

What is it exactly that you think the Dolphin's looked at? I'm sure they took a few minutes to give him a physical and look at some tape. I'm sure they looked at his record. How does this give them special insight? Do you honestly believe a football coaching staff is qualified to determine whether or not a convicted felon is rehabilitated?

This was a poor signing, plain and simple.

 

[volk]

I found this in an article i was just reading:

Quote:
"It is sad that the Miami Dolphins are so desperate for a winning record that they have to bring yet another sex offender into the state of Florida," Redmond said. "This is a man who … was convicted."

Your thoughts on this comment.

I think that is sensationalism, but it does point out an underlying problem in sports in general, and that is an athlete's potential or importance to the team is directly proportional to the amount of off-field indiscretions that will be tolerated. For example, Ray Lewis. Ray was not convicted of murder, however, he was charged with it and was involved in an incident in which another person lost their life. What does Ray have to show for it? A Superbowl MVP, an NFL spokesmanship, millions of dollars, and any number or endorsements.

This is why quotes like this one exist, and as long as teams turn a blind eye to this kind of behaviour, it will continue as such. The NFL is turning into the National Felons League, and it is pretty disgusting.

 

[Alxphins]

You're right, I'm not very open minded on this. I know at least one date rape victim, and I know what this can do to a victim. I also have two daughters, so perhaps my judgement is a little clouded by my personal situation. I am not going to apologize for it, though, because my concerns about sex offenders are statistically borne out. That the others were not convicted, to me makes Elam's conviction all the more ominous. Maybe you think he was wrongly convicted...or maybe he was so guilty that the jury felt the victim's character issues just weren't great enough to outweigh Elam's returning to the scene to continue his unwanted sexual interaction?

No, it's a fact. He didn't serve jail time. I point this fact out for those who are saying this kid deserves his chance because he "served his time", and also for those who think "serving his time" has likely led to rehabilitation. I do find it a little ironic that you don't question the judge's sentencing of him, but you do question his conviction by a jury Of course, we all know that felons are always given an appropriate sentence, especially felons who are athletes

Does he really have to deal with those consequences? Is signing with a pro football team three years after a felony sexual assault conviction and no jail time really "dealing with those consequences"? If you were the victim or the victim's father, would you still believe he is "dealing with the consequences"? Please :shakeno:


What is it exactly that you think the Dolphin's looked at? I'm sure they took a few minutes to give him a physical and look at some tape. I'm sure they looked at his record. How does this give them special insight? Do you honestly believe a football coaching staff is qualified to determine whether or not a convicted felon is rehabilitated?

This was a poor signing, plain and simple.

YOUR FIRST POINT:

Well first let me say I am truly sorry about the person you know who was raped. I also know a person that suffered that horrific fate. Having said that the height of ignorance is applying the general proposition or rules to specific cases without understanding the how the facts differ and how they may be similar. Each case is different. Some people desreve to be castrated some people are falsely accused and believe it or not sometimes it is much more confusing than that. In other words, my friend's date rape or your friend's date rape had nothing to do with this case. Your admission that your perspective is clouded speaks volumes on your ability to give an objective analysis here. Which leads to my second point the trial of the other individual had no bearing on Elam's case. They were separate trials! The jury that acquitted the other individual did NOT CONVICT Elam. So your assesment of the ominous nature of Elam's coviction is misguided. AN NO I DO NOT THINK HE WAS WRONGLY CONVICTED....my point is I do not know enough that is all.
YOUR SECOND PONT:
First, where did I question the Jury's conviction of him? Never did I do this. I said he was convicted of one crime and aqcuited of two more serious crimes. The jury did their job and I respect their decision. He did serve his "time". He served the penalty that was given him by the Court. And you should respect that. On what do you base the fact that he should have gone to jail other than your bias and prejudice? On what to you base that he received a favorable sentence? Surely it is not the facts because neither you or I know all of them. Again this has been my point all along.
YOUR THIRD POINT:
No if I was the victim's father I would not be happy, but you know what that is why we have court's and juries and why we don't let father's and mother's sit on those juries. Because if I was the victim's father I would have wanted to destroy him. But last time I checked we do not do things that way. We try to be fair and you cannot be fair when you are emotionally invested in the situation. As for the consequences you wanted him to "go through" I will not comment because rather than basing your assesment on facts you are basing it on bias and prejudice and that simply is irrational.
YOUR FOURTH POINT
How in god's name do you know what the Dolphin's looked at?!? :confused: You do not...simple as that! You really think the Dolphins are going to risk negative publicity with out performing due dilligence? Come on....another statement devoid of fact but full of unsubstantiated opinion and conjecture. As for this being a bad move you may or may not be right....but it would be based on nothing more than an opinion that finds it foundation in prejudice and bias.

 

[PhinKev]

There seem like a few issues here that are confused.

1. Can the Dolphins refuse to have him on the team? Yes.

2. Can this guy play well enough to help us? Maybe

3. Should a convicted Rapist be on the team?

To the third question, we have two views. First, the guy should be given a chance. Second, we should not be so interested in winning that we bring a guy like this in.

Let me say, I don't believe Elam should be prevented from working and making something positive out of his life. But, the more important issue to me is this. When I put on my Dolphin gear and root for my team, is Elam the type of guy I want to associate myself with?

If you can answer yes, than you and I just have a difference of opinion that is not worth arguing over.

 

[mugen]

I agree, we don't need this guy. Remember Underwood? I just read about his victim, she'll be scared to death if the Dolphins come to town and he's on the roster. She lives in fear the rest of her life, while he gets to live his dream. Where's the justice? 2nd chances aren't for rapists! What if it happened to one of your loved ones......................?

Scared to death? He left before much of anything even happened, and the girl spent the rest of the night there and rode home with the main perpetrator. I don't like defending what happened but c'mon this is more of an indication of our society than a bad person.

 

[pats4life]

I hope you all know that their was alot of teams that was trying to sign him, and the Pats was one of them.

Do you have a link for that? Its not that I dont believe you but it seems out of the norm for the Patriots to sign a player with as much off the field probelms as this guy, Patriots picked a guy Jason Peter from Nebraska when Pete Carroll was coaching and Bob Kraft refused to sign him or have on the team after he found about Peter's odd the field problems and has been on the record about bringing in players who have been good citizens off the field.

 

[InMyChambers]

For the most part, I am on board with just about everything that Saban has done thus far...but here is something that I feel the need to speak up about...

Although this kid, Abram Elam, the one with the "checkered past" to say the least, probably is a huge long shot to make the team and most likely won't even make a dent in the roster...I take issue with even looking at the guy...I have to say that it really is disgusting how far teams will go to look for so called talent.

He was one of four charged with sexually assaulting a female and the ONLY one convicted of FELONY SEXUAL BATTERY. When is enough enough? Is a murder conviction enough? Maybe child molestation?

Some will say that he has paid his debt to society, yada-yada-yada...but is this really the type of person that the Dolphins want on their team? Maybe this guy does have what it takes...I guess that will make it OK to cheer for a freaking sexual offender. In my opinion...it isn't.

From a fan's point of view...it has been proven time and time again that people with these types of troubled pasts eventually find their way back to trouble....remember the guy who once wore 34 before Ricky came along?

Like I said, the guy probably won't be around very long, but I really don't think that he even deserves the right to even wear a Miami Dolphin's practice jersey.

Just my 2 cents.

I hear your pain but the judicial system is setup so that you do a crime, you do the time and then you can start over. What he did was wrong but he is now ok legally and it should be ok for him to start a new life. If he was making $5/hour at a McDonald's would you be mad that the guy is trying to get his career back on the path? So he's a performer who has the potential to make a lot of money. That's capitalism and that's the good ol' US of A.

 

[Pericles349]

I seriously think that this is taking it too far. How could Saban bring in a convicted rapist? This is too much. It's sad how far professional teams will go to get an athlete with potential.

 

[Pericles349]

If you can answer yes, than you and I just have a difference of opinion that is not worth arguing over.

Post-modernism at it's best!

 

[finsforlife]

The NFL allows convicted felons....

 

[Chevagus]

There seem like a few issues here that are confused.

1. Can the Dolphins refuse to have him on the team? Yes.

2. Can this guy play well enough to help us? Maybe

3. Should a convicted Rapist be on the team?

To the third question, we have two views. First, the guy should be given a chance. Second, we should not be so interested in winning that we bring a guy like this in.

Let me say, I don't believe Elam should be prevented from working and making something positive out of his life. But, the more important issue to me is this. When I put on my Dolphin gear and root for my team, is Elam the type of guy I want to associate myself with?

If you can answer yes, than you and I just have a difference of opinion that is not worth arguing over.

You really know nothing about Elam and neither do I. However, if you look up the case you'll find that the woman was fairly sketchy. She had freedom to walk around and leave if she wanted but got up, went downstairs, went back upstairs and fell asleep with one of the players for 12 hours. She also lied to the police saying she was 100% sober but then later admitted she had 3 drinks and had taken 2 prescription medications (probably why she slept 12 hours). Did Elam take advantage of the situation? Maybe. I don't know, I wasn't there. But the case was weak enough the other players, with whom she admitted she consensually had sex, got off. It's pretty telling that he was only convicted of sexual battery, which carries a 3 year MAXIMUM sentence.

Just a quick note on the judicial system, a judge can rule differently than a jury, but usually won't do this as it usurps the jury function as fact finder. Usually this is only done in an extreme case, one in which the jury was obviously and completely wrong. In close cases judges usually let the jury verdict carry the day. However, the judge can have his/her voice heard during sentencing. This guy only got probation. The judge, having heard the evidence, is in a far better position to pass judgment than you or me. Again, I'm not saying you have to root for the guy, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion this guy is some type of sexual predator based on this event. Certainly (hopefully) Saban has done his homework.

 

[Prime]

Do you have a link for that? Its not that I dont believe you but it seems out of the norm for the Patriots to sign a player with as much off the field probelms as this guy, Patriots picked a guy Jason Peter from Nebraska when Pete Carroll was coaching and Bob Kraft refused to sign him or have on the team after he found about Peter's odd the field problems and has been on the record about bringing in players who have been good citizens off the field.

Here ya go:

Paige said Elam also had received interest from Green Bay, Cleveland and New England, where Pees is now linebackers coach.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...ay17,0,7944101.story?coll=sfla-dolphins-front

 

[ty15]

please give him a chance

Please give Abram Elam a chance. I was not there that night, so I don't know what happened, but I've followed the case very closely since it started. And from everything I've heard from people who know him, he is a very nice, polite young man who just made a mistake. His dorm even wrote a petition vouching for his character trying to get him to be allowed to stay in school. And these weren't other athletes; these were normal college kids from all over the country.

Abram wasn't convicted of rape. In fact, if he hadn't been tried first, I think he would have been acquitted of everything. Basically he was convicted of watching a rape that, according to a court of law, never took place. The 3 men who did have sex were either acquitted or had charges dropped against them. This was because her story had so many holes in it.

After being "raped", she went downstairs, got a drink, went back upstairs, took off her jeans, and slept the rest of the night with one of her supposed attackers. She admitted this herself.

She did not report the "attack" until it was too late for any medical tests to be done.

She said herself that before she was "attacked" she was allowed to go to the bathroom. She removed her tampon she said because her period was over. Yet, the only blood found in the investigation was menstrual blood so apparently her period wasn't over.

Yes, he did fondle her and that was wrong. But, the main reason that the woman didn't allow Abram to do anything was because he had a girlfriend. If not, she probably wouldn't have cared. If Notre Dame had believed that the acts were consesual, she would have been expelled as well. As long as she said it was an attack, there was no way they were expelling her.

What all 5 people did was wrong; the woman needs to quit trying to destroy the 4 mens lives. They have paid for their sin enough. She needs to realize that she has made a mistake too. Surely, the experience has left her with bad memories; that's why sex isn't a game. However, she shouldn't continue to try to destroy their lives.

Abram knows that he made a mistake of even being in the situation. What he did was morally wrong. And he has paid; he is forever a convicted sex offender, he lost a Notre Dame education and career, he has to live with what he did forever, and public opinion is forever turned against him. NO WHERE was he sentenced to never play football again. I'm glad he has continued to move on with his life, continued his education, and worked to make something positive of everything that happened. Hopefully, with a little support, he will be able to continue to do positive things with his life (whether with the Dolphins or not). I'm glad he got another chance first at Kent St. and now with the Dolphins. I wish him the best.

 

[ch19079]

"sexual assalt" is a serious crime, even if the case had HUGE holes in it.

but teams have "overlooked" things for players with skills. just look at the Ravens. a murder trial, and now a CONVICTION of traficing cocaine. :shakeno:

i know most people hope there team is not like that.

it seems like its worse to say, the QB of your team got tired in the final min. of a game, than it is to trafic coke. :shakeno: