This Elam kid....

[DrAstroZoom]

I realize this will tick off many of you even discussing the measure of his guilt. I ask those of you who say he has no right to play in the NFL? What does he do? What does he have a right to do if he is forgiveable?

This is a big issue to me -- not just in this case, but in general. Do we, as a society, have the mindset of "once a criminal, always a criminal"? How sad is that? No wonder there's such a high suicide rate among sex offenders.

And for the many of you who would say "That suits me fine," that's even sadder.

 

[miamirick]

This is a big issue to me -- not just in this case, but in general. Do we, as a society, have the mindset of "once a criminal, always a criminal"? How sad is that? No wonder there's such a high suicide rate among sex offenders.

And for the many of you who would say "That suits me fine," that's even sadder.

I'm sorry, but I have absolutley no simpathy for those who commit sex crimes...especially those who commit these crimes against children. The facts are that the rate of recidivism among these types of criminals is extremely high....

To feel bad for the people commiting these crimes is just not in me...high suicide rate or not. Is that a sad statement? Maybe. But it's the truth.

 

[Dave007]

I agree, we don't need this guy. Remember Underwood? I just read about his victim, she'll be scared to death if the Dolphins come to town and he's on the roster. She lives in fear the rest of her life, while he gets to live his dream. Where's the justice? 2nd chances aren't for rapists! What if it happened to one of your loved ones......................?

 

[jguig]

People like that are poison to your team. He should have never been brought in even for training camp fodder.

 

[Alxphins]

It is my stance that I don't have to know the facts of the case...actually, there is only one fact of this case that I know for sure...that he was found to be guilty by a jury of his peers. In other words, it is not my place to judge, that has already been done for me. I am basing my opinion on that fact and that fact alone. I am also taking into consideration what he was found guilty of...this was no j-walking ticket...it was a sexual battery on a female which in our society, is viewed as one of the most hanous (sp) crimes that one can commit. It is one step away from rape.

Well I would hope in life you don't make decisions based on other people's opinions all the time. Let see last time a checked a jury aqcuitted O.J Simpson of a slightly more heinous crime --- butchering a woman and a man --- I suppose your opinion is that OJ did not do it. :shakeno: In any event, do you know those same people acquitted him of the two more serious felonies, conspiracy to commit rape and criminal deviate conduct? You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I simply prefer to evaluate a situation on the facts and the facts in this case seem to be that he was convicted of sexual battery, he was acquitted on two of the three charges (he did not rape her), the victim had credibility issues as evidenced by the fact that the remaining defendants (who allegedly did rape her) were never convicted and the judge did not give him jail time (if what he did was so heinous why didn't he go to jail? -- do you know more than the judge? :confused: ). It seems he made a horrible mistake in life and as a result he has a felony convinction on his record. Most all of us in life deserve second chances......

 

[JTech194]

People like that are poison to your team. He should have never been brought in even for training camp fodder.

You guys are tough. I am a believer in people makes mistakes. And also that innocent people do get convicted, it happens. Maybe he had a bad lawyer? Who know but to just throw the gut under the bus without knowing the full stent of what happend is wrong. Hell when I was 13 I decided that I wanted to be a drug dealer so I got involved with the wrong kids at school. Luckly my father caught me and busted me up before the police did. My point is that I could have easily been caught by police, convicted (although I did not sell anything because my dad found the dope) and put on probation. Does that make me a bad person? No just a stupid little kid. I am know a Network Engineer and doing quite well for myself. The point is that people make mistakes and do dumb things. Give the guy a break. How many times have we heard women crying rape after the have consented to sex? Many. I'm not saying this is the case here but it happens.

 

[miamirick]

Well I would hope in life you don't make decisions based on other people's opinions all the time. Let see last time a checked a jury aqcuitted O.J Simpson of a slightly more heinous crime --- butchering a woman and a man --- I suppose your opinion is that OJ did not do it. :shakeno: In any event, do you know those same people acquitted him of the two more serious felonies, conspiracy to commit rape and criminal deviate conduct? You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I simply prefer to evaluate a situation on the facts and the facts in this case seem to be that he was convicted of sexual battery, he was acquitted on two of the three charges (he did not rape her), the victim had credibility issues as evidenced by the fact that the remaining defendants (who allegedly did rape her) were never convicted and the judge did not give him jail time (if what he did was so heinous why didn't he go to jail? -- do you know more than the judge? :confused: ). It seems he made a horrible mistake in life and as a result he has a felony convinction on his record. Most all of us in life deserve second chances......

Point well taken however, there are exceptions to the rule, and OJ is one HUGE exception...I don't believe that this case is an exception.

 

[PHINFAN4LIFE]

As a business owner, I have a problem with this. I have the right to decide if this person is a good risk for my business. I feel no need to provide everyone THE OPPORTUNITY to support his family at my company. Because if he frangresses again, I may not be able to support my family, or the families of the people who count on me to make good decisions. I owe nothing to these people. The Dolphins owe nothing to Elam. They may CHOOSE to give him a chance, but they do not OWE him a chance.

As a business owner, you absolutely have a right of refusal. As a red BLOODED human being you have no 'right to decide' anything about this man. Obviously, theres more to this story than whats being reported. Nick Saban in all his infinite wisdom has done the leg work and come to the conclusion that this young man deserves a chance. You never know, maybe the kid got a raw deal.
The story about her waiting and wondering about if one of the accused would be drafted furthermore tells me that this girl had ulterior motives. Give me a break, the man was the only one of the FOUR~ NOT to have intercourse with her on the night. Shes laughable at best. For everyone with daughters, who say the kid should be cast away from society, I say to you, that this girls parents should have raised her better. I know my daughter(I dont have one) will never be put in a position to have to say no to guy #4. The guy was not convicted of rape, that in itself should tell you that she had some willing part in the events in question. With your logic, are we to believe that there is no such thing as "PAYING YOUR DEBT TO SOCIETY". Hell, lets just do away with the entire judicial system altogether, while we're at it!

 

[Bill C]

The extreme point of view of the day:

So let me get this straight, Saban tells the world that he will only bring in high character guys to the team and then turns around and signs this dreg of humanity. To which I then state that I lose respect for Saban, and you consider that an extreme view????

I didn't say that I don't like Saban, I merely said that I have lost a lot of respect for him.

Sorry - but felony sex crimes are unforgivable. And, my major point was that IF sports leagues are truly interested in only high character individuals, then they need to adopt policy language that expresses that fact in very definite terms. BTW, policy is the easiest step to take. Otherwise the hypocracy is overwhelming. We'll hire you if you are a convicted (sex offender, murderer, etc), but don't you dare use steroids or you are out. PLEASE give me a break with this.

I have seen first hand a juvenile murder one player on a college football team, and try to murder another (significantly injuring him). Said juvenile gets convicted of murder and attempted murder and serves time until he is 21 and gets released. Then same said juvenile proceeds to go and play football for the same college and coach for whom the player he murdered played for.

When it comes to sports - our society is the ultimate double-standard.

 

[volk]

Do we, as a society, have the mindset of "once a criminal, always a criminal"? How sad is that? No wonder there's such a high suicide rate among sex offenders.

And for the many of you who would say "That suits me fine," that's even sadder.

Got any statistics on those supposed suicide rates? How about a side-by-side comparison of the suicide rates of the victims of sexual crimes?

Bottom line is that sex crimes are some of the worst out there, because they carry a lasting "punishment" on the VICTIM. The victim may never have another normal relationship again, may never have a normal sexual relationship, may suffer from guilt, depression, fear, and any number of additional issues. Sex crimes are the crimes that keep on giving to their victims, and I guarantee that the victim suffers a lot longer than any offender gets punished. Ever known a girl who was raped? The baggage goes on forever.

I have read the account of this kid's involvement in this situation. It is not clear whether or not he "participated" in "raping" this girl, but he was clearly thrilled with the possibility of a group orgy with her, and he was persistant about it as well. He actually left the event more than once...BUT HE KEPT COMING BACK. Had he bailed out after the first time she shut him down, he wouldn't have been convicted of anything. Instead, he returned to the situation and tryed to force the issue with her while she was banging his friend! From here, 2 other guys got involved, which she claims she struggled against, and which Elam was aware of. Even if he did not rape her, he was aware that she was being forced into things against her will with the other 3 guys, and he did nothing about it. Whether he raped her or not, he certainly engaged in criminal activity with premeditation, excercising terrible judgement, and was convicted for it.

Society owes this kid nothing. He should not be on this team. HE NEVER SERVED ANY JAIL TIME! If punishment was never properly meaded out, any talk of rehabilitation is foolish! Sex offenders are the most likely to repeat offend, with increasing levels of violence as they do. There is a reason they are forced to register! Trust is owed no one. When someone commits this type of crime, they must EARN respect back...3 years, no jail time, and signing with a pro-football team is not earning trust...it is a handshake and wink. If this kid wants a career, start earning trust with a clean record at McDonalds. Work up from there.

I don't care if it "saddens" anyone or not, sex offenders don't deserve this kind of unmerited freedom and acceptance, and it would "suit me just fine" if they locked most of them up for good.

 

[Prime]

Every guy deserves to have a second chance to things. I mean some of you are taking this things too far by how you lost respect for Saban. Saban has the guts to sign this dude and you all shouldnt diss him for this. I am sure that Elam knew it was a stupid thing to do, but he has grown to be a man. I am sure that he has changed and he is a great person now. If he does cause more problems, then we can just cut him and be gone with that. Give Saban credit for signing this guy people. Saban is a guy that gives people second chances, and i bet you that Saban can change alot of peoples attitudes to be a great one.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

I don't know if any of you read this or if it was posted yet:

"There's nothing I want to do that might hurt the people here," Saban said Tuesday. "I don't want to hurt [club owner] Wayne [Huizenga] or [his wife] Ms. Marti or anyone in this organization or our fans. I will do everything I can to keep from embarrassing the organization and everyone involved in it."

"The problem is there are no perfect players out there, and no perfect people that I meet. We all have our shortcomings. I can assure you we're not going to bring questionable or undependable people into our organization. . . . But I don't know how fair it is to be so sensitive so as to not make good judgments."

Link

 

[Prime]

I cant name any on the top of my head right now, but i am sure that their are alot of guys of each sport that turned things around with given their second chance like this.

 

[Alxphins]

Got any statistics on those supposed suicide rates? How about a side-by-side comparison of the suicide rates of the victims of sexual crimes?

Bottom line is that sex crimes are some of the worst out there, because they carry a lasting "punishment" on the VICTIM. The victim may never have another normal relationship again, may never have a normal sexual relationship, may suffer from guilt, depression, fear, and any number of additional issues. Sex crimes are the crimes that keep on giving to their victims, and I guarantee that the victim suffers a lot longer than any offender gets punished. Ever known a girl who was raped? The baggage goes on forever.

I have read the account of this kid's involvement in this situation. It is not clear whether or not he "participated" in "raping" this girl, but he was clearly thrilled with the possibility of a group orgy with her, and he was persistant about it as well. He actually left the event more than once...BUT HE KEPT COMING BACK. Had he bailed out after the first time she shut him down, he wouldn't have been convicted of anything. Instead, he returned to the situation and tryed to force the issue with her while she was banging his friend! From here, 2 other guys got involved, which she claims she struggled against, and which Elam was aware of. Even if he did not rape her, he was aware that she was being forced into things against her will with the other 3 guys, and he did nothing about it. Whether he raped her or not, he certainly engaged in criminal activity with premeditation, excercising terrible judgement, and was convicted for it.

Society owes this kid nothing. He should not be on this team. HE NEVER SERVED ANY JAIL TIME! If punishment was never properly meaded out, any talk of rehabilitation is foolish! Sex offenders are the most likely to repeat offend, with increasing levels of violence as they do. There is a reason they are forced to register! Trust is owed no one. When someone commits this type of crime, they must EARN respect back...3 years, no jail time, and signing with a pro-football team is not earning trust...it is a handshake and wink. If this kid wants a career, start earning trust with a clean record at McDonalds. Work up from there.

I don't care if it "saddens" anyone or not, sex offenders don't deserve this kind of unmerited freedom and acceptance, and it would "suit me just fine" if they locked most of them up for good.

Well you seem pretty open-minded. :shakeno: What bearing does it have that the others who did rape her were not convicted? Obviously there were some issues with consent here and neither you or I were there to understand the nature of the incident. The jury spoke and convicted him on one charge and aqcuitted him on two more serious charges. Why no comment about this fact? My point being that this was not a clear cut case of "no" then rape...the victim had credibility issues and the jury took those into consideration. You have to look at all the facts and not have a selective viewpoint.

Your statement that "HE NEVER SERVED ANY JAIL TIME" is ignorant. That was the Judge's decision...the same judge who heard all the facts and saw the testimony of all the witnesses....he was in a much better position than you or I to determine the correct penalty....so who are you to say that "punishment was never properly meaded out"? Did you see the testimony of the witnesses? How credible was the victim? Why did her testimony fail to bring a conviction upon those who actually did rape her?

My point here is not to absolve him, but rather to lend perspective to this parade of people, like yourself, who want to pass judgment without knowing the facts other than what they have read in some newspaper or internet article. He went through the legal system was convicted of a felony and acquitted of two others. He has to deal with those consequences. The Dolphins I am sure looked into all of this. I know for a fact that neither you or I are in a position to legitimatley and substantivley criticize that decision (of course you can opine about it) until we have the same full and complete understanding of the facts including all the testimony, the basis for sentencing, his post conviction activities, his probation record and any other actions he may have taken that are relevant. I am going out on a limb but I would just take a stab and say that you do not have a clue about most of that

 

[Prime]

I found this in an article i was just reading:

"It is sad that the Miami Dolphins are so desperate for a winning record that they have to bring yet another sex offender into the state of Florida," Redmond said. "This is a man who … was convicted."

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