This Elam kid.... | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

This Elam kid....

Can't recall his name I'm trying to look it up now. But just doing a search on googe brings up all soets of criminal activities by both active retired and past players of all pro sports. The names weren't that important as to the fact of you can't pick and choose who gets to play because for some reason or another yo don't like them. I don't like alot of things they do but thats the system that We (as citizens approve of)
Fin from RI
I can't stand convicted Wife beaters, sex offenders or child abusers.. I don't care who they are I would never be a fan of theirs.
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I agree 100%
 
awing_pilot said:
... We are hiring him due to his ability on the field it is against the law for us to deny him the ability to try out based on his past ...
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Are you saying that it would be illegal to not allow him to tryout if he simply just asked for one? If you are, I must strongly disagree. Employers have the right to do background checks and make decisions based on the findings. But even this is not required, employers can tell you "No, thank you, we're not hiring" if they just don't feel like going through the motions.

For the rest of your post, I agree with your basic premise in that you shouldn't single out this guy just because of the particular crime when others have done as bad or worse. That said, I wouldn't mind taking those other guys out too. :)
 
I stand corrected I may have been thinking of Lewis who did not get convicted, But the point of my original post is no less valid.
 
Jason Kidd was convicted of murder?

Methinks you are confused.

Kidd wasnt even prosecuted for DOMESTIC ABUSE.
He paid a fine, and underwent counseling.

No player on Baltimore's roster was ever convicted of murder.
Ray Lewis was charged with murder at one point, but ended up pleading to obstruction of justice and testified against his co-defendants.

Rae Carruth of the Carolina Panthers WAS convicted of the murder of his pregnant ex-girlfriend. He is currently serving a life sentence.
 
chuckcole said:
Are you saying that it would be illegal to not allow him to tryout if he simply just asked for one? If you are, I must strongly disagree. Employers have the right to do background checks and make decisions based on the findings. But even this is not required, employers can tell you "No, thank you, we're not hiring" if they just don't feel like going through the motions.

For the rest of your post, I agree with your basic premise in that you shouldn't single out this guy just because of the particular crime when others have done as bad or worse. That said, I wouldn't mind taking those other guys out too. :)
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If you can prove in a court of law that they discriminated against you because of your past (must be a good standing citizen) then yes its illegal. Your right its all a bunch of motions, but If he asks for a try out they can say no, but if they ask for him to try out then they find out, and release him when his history does not effect his performance then yes thats illegal. If i'm trying to get a security job and have been convicted of stealing then that is not discrimination.. but now we're getting to far away from the point.

I wouldn't mind taking all the "thugs" out of the sport either but then we get into a whole other can of worms.

EDIT

After following up with a second source it is in fact legal to discriminate for Ex cons. Agua's response below is correct in pointing that out. theres all sorts of dofferent laws everywhere but I have been put in my place and want that to be clear. in fact i should erase all my replies in this thread outside my first one :D (I learned to verify facts before opening my fat mouth today)
 
awing_pilot said:
I stand corrected I may have been thinking of Lewis who did not get convicted, But the point of my original post is no less valid.
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I don't think it's ok for one guy but not for the other guy.. In my view it's based on the crime committed(atheletes do make forgivable mistakes) and not if I was a fan of a player(or team that the player was on)before that crime was committed..

I do see what your saying, awing, and it probably was just a typo on your part but there are no convicted murderers playing pro sports.
 
We don't really know...

Don't you think you are being a little hard on the guy? He did this thing 3 years ago...we don't even know what he did. I wasn't there to judge. I don't think you were either. I know his coach at Kent State said he was a good kid. Hopefully, he has learned his lesson. He is only 23 now. You are talking about a 19-20 year old kid maybe making a mistake. What does it matter if he makes the team or not. Doesn't he have the right to try to make a living.
 
Ok I apologize I clearly am not thinking straight about the murder guy so I must retract that statement until I can find an active player being prosocuted for murder. Although I'm sure there are some that have been accused (both rightly and unrightly). Again the main point is you can't pick and choose.
 
He may be thinking of Jason Williams who used to play for the Nets ( he drunkenly shot his limo driver with a shotgun). Also, don't forget about Leonard Little of the Rams, he did not murder anyone but did kill someone while driving under the influence.
 
awing_pilot said:
If you can prove in a court of law that they discriminated against you because of your past (must be a good standing citizen) then yes its illegal. Your right its all a bunch of motions, but If he asks for a try out they can say no, but if they ask for him to try out then they find out, and release him when his history does not effect his performance then yes thats illegal. If i'm trying to get a security job and have been convicted of stealing then that is not discrimination.. but now we're getting to far away from the point.

I wouldn't mind taking all the "thugs" out of the sport either but then we get into a whole other can of worms.
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Yes, we're getting a little off topic here, but I felt I still needed to respond.

First of all, trying to prove discrimination in the court would be extremely difficult. All the employer needs to say is that they didn't think the person was qualified, all things considered. That is a judgement call, but it is the employer's prerogative.

Also, an employer does not need a reason to fire somebody. There are firing offenses that will definitely get someone fired, but these are not the only means. Reasons are only given to prevent litigation. And again in this case, the employer has the prerogative on stating what that is.
 
miamirick said:
I think you make a good point...there are some things that I think one can overlook...a DUI, a joint, whatever...but the crime we are talking about here is a very serious assault on another person....

I think that in the "real world" this guy would have problems getting hired by MacDonald's...let alone an NFL franchise.
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I dont agree with the DUI statement. People who think its alright to get behind the wheel of a car after drinking to much are friggin idiots.
 
awing_pilot said:
We are hiring him due to his ability on the field it is against the law for us to deny him the ability to try out based on his past.
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HUH?????? Care to enlighten this practicing attorney of 12 years what law prohibits discrimination based upon criminal convictions?
 
I'll chime back in on this...

First off, for those that say that because of your background, you can't be hired...I would strongly disagree with that comment and would challenge you to bring forth that law. Employers routinely make decisions based on a candidates past as it is usually a very good indicator of his/her future. And to top that off, Florida is an at-will state...in other words, either an employee or an employer can terminate employment at anytime without cause or notification unless it has something to do with discrimination (age, sex, religion, race). If you were the CEO of a major high-profile company, would you hire a candidate that has a crime like sexual battery on his record? I think not.

Also, as to the opinion that stated that because we weren't there, we can't judge...correct, but we don't have to judge...a jury of his peers already did that for us...They found him guilty.

I would also agree that we can't pick and choose, but some offenses are greater than others...Is striking your wife during a heated arguement worse than a DUI? Of course....but one could argue that striking your wife is not the equivalent of sexually assaulting her. Both are horrible acts, but one is obviously less than the other.

If it were up to me, violent criminals of any sort would not be allowed to play in any of the major sports as they are in high profile positions and some may interpret that the sports themselves are sending the wrong message to our youth...but then again, and this is saddest of all, if what I just said were to happen, I think that we would have a lot less players playing right now.

And lastly...someone brought up the point regarding Saban's comments about players with character and integrity....Saban, practice what you preach. That Sir, is hipocritical to say the least when you are willing to bring this convicted criminal on board.
 
Agua said:
HUH?????? Care to enlighten this practicing attorney of 12 years what law prohibits discrimination based upon criminal convictions?
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I knew there had to be an attorney in this crowd somewhere! I've only been passing on what I've heard directly from another attorney, so your input and clarification is welcomed.
 
miamirick said:
... I would also agree that we can't pick and choose, but some offenses are greater than others ...
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I figured you felt this way, but I wasn't going to speak for you. Very well put post.
 
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