This Elam kid....

[yankeehillbilly]

HUH?????? Care to enlighten this practicing attorney of 12 years what law prohibits discrimination based upon criminal convictions?

I just did a google on the subject and from everything I have seen, it seems to be more of a guideline than a law. I havent seen any applicable fines or jail terms assigned for refusing to hire or even accept applications from felons. Nearly every article that states "you arent supposed to discriminate due to a persons past" also states that "everyone does anyway". So, if its a law, its one that seems to be unenforcable.

 

[Agua]

First off, for those that say that because of your background, you can't be hired...I would strongly disagree with that comment and would challenge you to bring forth that law. Employers routinely make decisions based on a candidates past as it is usually a very good indicator of his/her future. And to top that off, Florida is an at-will state...in other words, either an employee or an employer can terminate employment at anytime without cause or notification unless it has something to do with discrimination (age, sex, religion, race).

Absolutely correct. This "can't discriminate based on their past" is completely made up and wrong.

 

[phinfan2003]

I agree with you.. And I dont think its fair to even compare Ricky with Elam.. Ricky isnt a rapist.

Even though you took it out of context, it's an interesting debate. Who would you rather take (provided all things are equal): a sex ofender or a player who quit on his team to "find himself"?

 

[J Tes]

Ok first off anyone who hurts a child should rot it the pits of hell after the worst torture known to mankind whatever that may be (don't believe me become a parent). Second is people who abuse/rape women. With that said:

We are hiring him due to his ability on the field it is against the law for us to deny him the ability to try out based on his past. According to the laws of the land, Yes in fact he has paid his time and continues to do so with the lifetime penalties that are brought upon him by being a felon (has to register with police, no vote, special clearence need for leaving the country, not ever able work a security clearence job, and more i just don't remember them all) If you don't like the punishment thats not his fault write your politicians and get them to fix it.

There already are murderes, rapists, wife beaters, Drug dealers, Criminals, and all other sorts fo characters in not only the NFL but NBA, MLB, and hockey. So why is it ok for One guy to get convicted of murder and play. One guy on our team to hit his wife and be ok, but since this guy YOU don't like. its suddenly not OK. If you want these guys banned you can't just pick and choose which ones you want.

So some of the top guys who have cleared up there past aren't allowed to play anymore.. oh wait just the guys you don't like. You can't have it both ways.

I agree. I'm not trying to compare any of those horrible crimes to any of the others, but you cant turn a blind eye to one and not the others. Beating your wife is absolutly stupid. Why do we except Randy Mcmichael? Is it because he's already proven to be a very good football player?

I do want to set the record straight however. I DO NOT condone what this guy did, nor any act even remotely similar. If, and thats a BIG IF, he makes the team I will never respect him as a human being.

 

[eltos_lightfoot]

I'll chime back in on this...

First off, for those that say that because of your background, you can't be hired...I would strongly disagree with that comment and would challenge you to bring forth that law. Employers routinely make decisions based on a candidates past as it is usually a very good indicator of his/her future. And to top that off, Florida is an at-will state...in other words, either an employee or an employer can terminate employment at anytime without cause or notification unless it has something to do with discrimination (age, sex, religion, race). If you were the CEO of a major high-profile company, would you hire a candidate that has a crime like sexual battery on his record? I think not.

Also, as to the opinion that stated that because we weren't there, we can't judge...correct, but we don't have to judge...a jury of his peers already did that for us...They found him guilty.

I would also agree that we can't pick and choose, but some offenses are greater than others...Is striking your wife during a heated arguement worse than a DUI? Of course....but one could argue that striking your wife is not the equivalent of sexually assaulting her. Both are horrible acts, but one is obviously less than the other.

If it were up to me, violent criminals of any sort would not be allowed to play in any of the major sports as they are in high profile positions and some may interpret that the sports themselves are sending the wrong message to our youth...but then again, and this is saddest of all, if what I just said were to happen, I think that we would have a lot less players playing right now.

And lastly...someone brought up the point regarding Saban's comments about players with character and integrity....Saban, practice what you preach. That Sir, is hipocritical to say the least when you are willing to bring this convicted criminal on board.

:cry: Does anyone see a river nearby? I think I do after reading this post. Sheesh. It must be a slow offseason.

Good lord people, he has to MAKE THE TEAM. Not only that we don't know what happened. We don't know. Period. Saban didn't just wake up this morning, take a look in the mirror and go, "You know what? You don't have enough convicted felons on this team. GO GET EM!"

It is called due diligence, and I am sure that Saban did just that.

 

[Agua]

I just did a google on the subject and from everything I have seen, it seems to be more of a guideline than a law. I havent seen any applicable fines or jail terms assigned for refusing to hire or even accept applications from felons. Nearly every article that states "you arent supposed to discriminate due to a persons past" also states that "everyone does anyway". So, if its a law, its one that seems to be unenforcable.

Some states don't even allow convicted felons to vote. There is no prohibition against refusing employment to someone on the basis of criminal conviction: age, race, sex, religion, national origin, and disability are the only prohibited bases.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

I question Saban's reasons for bringing him in.. It doesn't make sense from a team character point of view..Why bring him in if he has no chance of making the team? If it was a different crime than maybe I view it differently but it's a sex crime for which I have no apathy for. Then again, you are right, I'm sure Saban is using his due dillegence and maybe there are details of the crime that I'm not aware of.. He could have been the fall guy for his friend

 

[mugen]

I'm not condoning anything he has done but he was the only one not tried for rape, the other three players were. The other three were not convicted partly because the victim stayed the rest of the night at the players house and got a ride home with him the next day. Elam admitted to touching the girl inappropriatley, and that she had sex with the other three willingly and didn't report it until a week later. If we don't at least give people a chance to prove they have learned from their mistakes then we all better be real careful. He had the backing of a lot of people in his home town that pledged money to Kent State after they gave him another chance. So I think we should see what the kid can do.

 

[brparkway]

As far as I know, no NFL team is REQUIRED to give ANY FA a tryout, much less sign him, so any discrimination law is irrelevant here. Pro sports leagues have exemptions (which congress can rescind) from many labor & anti-trust laws (not including union laws) which make certain practices like the draft possible.

I'm less than thrilled with this signing. I hope cut time makes it moot.

 

[Alphamale]

I agree, I am not happy with the fact that the Dolphins would even give a thug like this a chance. As far as I'm concerned, rehabilitated or not, he should sit in a dark cell the rest of his life.

 

[BAMAPHIN 22]

Some states don't even allow convicted felons to vote. There is no prohibition against refusing employment to someone on the basis of criminal conviction: age, race, sex, religion, national origin, and disability are the only prohibited bases.

I agree with some of the stated positions... I just think IMO that Saban is just giving this kid a chance.. He didn't state that he is making the team.. Who knows, he maybe he is a diamond in the rough! We have all made mistakes in our lives. Some more egregious than others. Elam has paid and will continually to pay for his actions. Everyone deserves aleast a second chance in life... Look! at Don King for example... He served time for killing someone... Look at him now!!!!

 

[Agua]

Nearly every article that states "you arent supposed to discriminate due to a persons past" also states that "everyone does anyway".

And that is nothing more than some polyanna writer's BS - there are no "guidelines" other than your own conscience regarding this matter.

 

[Agua]

I agree with some of the stated positions... I just think IMO that Saban is just giving this kid a chance.. He didn't state that he is making the team.. Who knows, he maybe he is a diamond in the rough! We have all made mistakes in our lives. Some more egregious than others. Elam has paid and will continually to pay for his actions. Everyone deserves aleast a second chance in life... Look! at Don King for example... He served time for killing someone... Look at him now!!!!

Yeah, and my personal view on this is the kid screwed up, if they've looked him over and feel he's rehabilitated himself, give him a shot. IF that's the case, I'd rather have him on the team than RopeWeed.

 

[LarryFinFan]

Assuming that Saban has done his due diligence..to me, it shows that he is flexible enough to allow for a mistake of youth, as this APPEARS to be. I don't have a problem with him taking this chance, since right now, Saban appears to be doing the right things by the organization...

I do not condone nor approve of that behavior in any human being, but also feel that sometimes, people do make mistakes due to youth and lack of maturity...Now, I may be speaking completely out of turn since I, nor anyone on this board, really know all the circumstances of the incident, nor do we know what the kid has done as pentinence (sp) since the incident. IF this guy has his head on straight now, great..if not, as some have said here, it'll come back...but let me say this: If it does come back, it will have happened either here, in some other NFL city, or back in his hometown while working at the mill...Point being, if it comes back it won't be because Saban hired the kid, it'll be because the kid let it come back.

As to the general population of the NFL...it has it's share of thugs, as do all walks of life, including other pro sports...obviously, pro sports are much more high profile and gather media attention, particularly negative attention. If this kid doesn't stay on the straight and narrow, it'll get a lot of media attention and make our organization look bad. I feel that Saban has weighed this risk with this particular kid and feels it is a risk worth taking...

I just wonder how different conversations will be if this kid turns out to be a superstar and stays clean off the field as well...Will we care ?? Will we give Saban any props for taking the risk ?? I'd bet the answer to both is no...

 

[wazzy]

All of you who watch and love Ray Lewis are hipocrites on this site and OJ Simpson. It was brought up very well during Ray Lewis trial that he was involved somehow and it seemed like no one cared and he went on to be Superbowl MVP that year and everyone loved him. However it was "proved" that he wasn't involved:confused: . OJ Simpson another person and everyone knows his story:fire: . Ok enough about that im not starting and argument or anything but I think before people really start judging this guy we need to find out more about the story and how things were. Also I dont mind people having second chances as long as it doesnt bring a negative attitude, vibe or anything that hurts the team at all.IMO