Time to speak fact on Wanny! Proof of incompetence!

[abNORMal]

You act like he was handed a great team, he was handed a team that lost 62-7 in the playoffs and had no running game and Marino was retiring.

Good point..the downfall of our illustrious franchise began before DW was given the HC position.

 

[nyjunc]

He was handed a team with a top 5 defense and a very good special teams group. All he had to do is build the offense up.

Compare that to coaches that walk into much worse situations and still do as well, if not better than Wanny did.

As Wanny made his exist, we are only left with 2 good offensive players that he brought in.

Now stop to think, what if he had a bottom 10 ranked defense? What would he have added? One or two players there?

This team would've ranked in the bottom of the AFCE if it wasn't for the fact JJ had already built up the team and left Wanny a team that was 'only a player or two away, we're close.' Isn't that how they put it?

Even though he was handed a team that was already being built running the same/similar system he would want, he still ran it into the ground. That is just sad.

He was handed a team that had a D that always folded in big games and he was handed no O. His best offensive player was Gadsden, he did a great job leading Miami to it's only div title in the last decade. I'd love to go back and forth now but I have to go. I'll pick it up again later.

 

[shellgh0st]

He was handed a team that had a D that always folded in big games and he was handed no O. His best offensive player was Gadsden, he did a great job leading Miami to it's only div title in the last decade. I'd love to go back and forth now but I have to go. I'll pick it up again later.

Yeah, lets compare that to what Andy Reid was handed in Philly when he took over. Let's see a sad defense, good special teams, a very sad offense with no qb, no ol, no wrs, no te.

Did the defense fold? Sometimes. Did they have the support of a good offense that kept them off the field? No. Did we have very good special teams? Yes. We had a top defense as well. Pro bowl players all across the board. He was handed Surtain, Madison, Zach, Bowens, Taylor and several 'good' players as well.

Bottom line, they were a top 5 defense and they fit his system! You can't ask for much more.

He also had a very good kicker and special teams unit. You cant ask to be handed much more.

The offense had it's problems. If it didn't, JJ would've lead us to a superbowl.

Our offense had as many problems as the Eagles offense had. Unlike Andy Reid though, Wanny didn't have to lose sleep over his defense. He was in a MUCH better position. Some can point out that the NFC is easier, but the fact is, Wanny was put in a great position to enjoy as much success as the Eagles have had without needing to rebuild a defense and special teams unit.

I can defend my position by using Wanny and JJs words "we're close." Your position is simply your opinion.

Look at Parcells, he has a bad offense and a defense that doesn't fit his system. So instead of using his draft picks to upgrade that offense, he had to spend this draft upgrading his defense. Wouldn't it have been nice if one of his buddy's had built a good defense with players that fit his system and handed him the Cowboys?

Wanny couldve had it MUCH MUCH worse. He had a very good team handed to him and he turned it into a failure like he did with the Bears.

 

[dolphingator]

The consensus is that wannabe was a failure as HC in large part because he was handed a team with a strong defense and proceeded to draft a bunch of defensive players (Jamar Fletcher) and did NOTHING to help build the offense.

Last time I checked, Matt Roth plays defense.

So does Channing Crowder.

And I really don't care what Jim Bates said about the defense, it didn't need as much fixing as the offense. 6 years and counting and STILL no QB.

Ronnie Brown is not an equivalent replacement for pothead, talent-wise, just yet. For all we know he may be a bust. Drafting him does NOT solve our offensive problems.

So far I see a wannabe-like pattern emerging with Saban and I sweated blood to see Saban hired. I am not off the bandwagon but I am concerned.


TRADE FOR A QB- GET RIVERS, RAMSEY OR BREES

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Proof of incompetence...

I'll just say a few things about the season that pisses me off the most and will ALWAYS piss me off the most...2002

In 2002 the Miami Dolphins were...

12th in points scored: Not great but above average.
4th in points allowed: When you give up the 4th fewest points in football you are a playoff team.
2nd in rushing yards: Ricky was sick in 2002
4th in Yards per carry: 4th...even though every team in the league knew Ricky was coming.
11th against the pass
5th against the run
5th in interceptions
3rd in total defense
Had 6 players named to the Pro Bowl
Had the NFL's rushing champion.

Who was the coach when these happened?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Your team wasn't nearly as talented as you believe. Wannstedt did a better job than Jimmy Johnson did w/ you guys. basically in 4 years he made the playoffs twice, won a div title(something JJ never did), missed the playoffs by a game(mostly b/c Fiedler missed a bunch of games) and then the whole team fell apart last year which wasn't his fault. He's not a great coach but to solely blame him is wrong. The best coaches in the NFL wouldn't have won more than 5 or 6 games w/ what happened last year.

An intelligent response. Do you want to join the fin fans? We could use you.

 

[snap]

A lot of us run off at the mouth about Wanny and how bad a coach he was. Well, other than our own perception/opinion, it is time to anty up some proof. This thread is more about concrete examples of his incompetence and general chaos. Provide proof to me as though I know nothing about Dolphin football.

Lee2000

CHECK THE SIDELINES BOSS.....WANNY IS A DEAD SUBJECT NOW...ANY MENTION OF HIS NAME ONLY REMINDS US HOW FAR DOWN HE HAS TAKEN US..ANY OTHER PROOFS YOU NEED JUST WATCH PITT IN THE NEXT 3 YEARS....YOU WILL HAVE YOUR ANSWER!! :confused: :yell: :evil:

 

[shellgh0st]

The consensus is that wannabe was a failure as HC in large part because he was handed a team with a strong defense and proceeded to draft a bunch of defensive players (Jamar Fletcher) and did NOTHING to help build the offense.

Last time I checked, Matt Roth plays defense.

So does Channing Crowder.

And I really don't care what Jim Bates said about the defense, it didn't need as much fixing as the offense. 6 years and counting and STILL no QB.

Ronnie Brown is not an equivalent replacement for pothead, talent-wise, just yet. For all we know he may be a bust. Drafting him does NOT solve our offensive problems.

So far I see a wannabe-like pattern emerging with Saban and I sweated blood to see Saban hired. I am not off the bandwagon but I am concerned.


TRADE FOR A QB- GET RIVERS, RAMSEY OR BREES

The big difference here is that Wanny spent a year as a assistant coach under JJ prior to taking over the team. So he shouldve known that we had a lot of talent on defense.

What you dont get here is that when Wanny brought in Feilder, he thought he fixed the QB need. That was his 'guy.' And Wanny's defensive players fit his system and were young too.

Saban doesn't have the luxury of having spent a year with the team prior to taking over. He knows his defense is old and the players don't fit his style of defense.

I'm confident that if Saban saw a guy on the board that he thought could be a franchise QB he wouldve snatched him up. Drafting a young QB just because you have a opening for a franchise QB isnt a smart move if you dont feel that the guy you are drafting can become a pro bowl player. We already have 'good' players at that position. He brought in a franchise back. We have a ton of OL and a great OL coach. It's time to coach players up at those positions. We already have pro bowl potential players at WR and TE.

Other then franchise QB, LT, and RB. I dont see why we wouldnt bring in young defensive players when our defense is getting very old and the players do not fit his style.

Sure, he couldve went by our stats, like Parcells did with the cowboys and ignored the fact that these guys dont fit his style and then eventually he wouldve had to replace them. Parcells regrets not upgrading his defense sooner. Saban will not.

 

[dolphingator]

But we run a HUGE risk of "papering over" our Offensive woes with a strong defense and being, in the long run, a mediocre team like the Johnson days of 10-6 at best. To be an elite franchise again will REQUIRE a franchise QB and a more talented WR corps and the clock is already ticking... especially at QB. We will have to develop a guy for 2-3 years. I don't want to see us be a "doughnut" team... a team with all the other ingredients but lacking the QB at center.

3 years from now feeley is 31 and that is NOT the upswing of an NFL career.

Everyone always points to the Ravens. ONE team wins a SB with a strong D, mediocre offense and a poor QB and everyone thinks that is The Model. :shakeno: That is actually regarded by knowledgeable NFL people as the most monumental FLUKE win in SB history. The ONE time in 40 years where a team like that won anything. (And they beat the Giants who were essentially the same, just that they had Kerry Collins who was as bad as Dilfer, and a worse D.) ALL other SB's in HISTORY were won by a team with a very good-to-excellent QB who carried the team; the SB teams with mediocre journeymen at QB have always been the ringless losers.

We have GOT to get a QB. Neither feeley nor frerotte will EVER appear in a playoff game for the Miami Dolphins. I am as sure of that as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

 

[shellgh0st]

But we run a HUGE risk of "papering over" our Offensive woes with a strong defense and being, in the long run, a mediocre team like the Johnson days of 10-6 at best. To be an elite franchise again will REQUIRE a franchise QB and a more talented WR corps and the clock is already ticking... especially at QB. We will have to develop a guy for 2-3 years. I don't want to see us be a "doughnut" team... a team with all the other ingredients but lacking the QB at center.

3 years from now feeley is 31 and that is NOT the upswing of an NFL career.

Everyone always points to the Ravens. ONE team wins a SB with a strong D, mediocre offense and a poor QB and everyone thinks that is The Model. :shakeno: That is actually regarded by knowledgeable NFL people as the most monumental FLUKE win in SB history. The ONE time in 40 years where a team like that won anything. (And they beat the Giants who were essentially the same, just that they had Kerry Collins who was as bad as Dilfer, and a worse D.) ALL other SB's in HISTORY were won by a team with a very good-to-excellent QB who carried the team; the SB teams with mediocre journeymen at QB have always been the ringless losers.

We have GOT to get a QB. Neither feeley nor frerotte will EVER appear in a playoff game for the Miami Dolphins. I am as sure of that as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

The bucs also won a superbowl with a strong defense and sad offense with no franchise QB.

Ever heard the term 'defense wins championships'? How many superbowls has P. Manning won? Why cant he win one? NO DEFENSE.

Yeah, you need a franchise QB. Show me the franchise QB we passed up? We passed up question marks at QB in the draft for players who had higher marks on defense. Thats the smart move.

I think AJ is a good QB. He played well with the Eagles. He will surprise a lot of you doubters this year.

This isnt the old NFL. Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Trent Dilfer, have made the superbowl in recent years. Guys like Brady and Warner came out of no where. The same can happen for us.

Yes we would LOVE to get our hands on a franchise QB. Wanting one and being able to get your hands on the next P. Manning are two different things.

We took the best route this year. If AJ sucks, we will have the option to trade for someone in the draft, make a move for Rivers or Brees.

 

[unifiedtheory]

Who was the coach when these happened?

Guess...:tongue:

 

[nyjunc]

Yeah, lets compare that to what Andy Reid was handed in Philly when he took over. Let's see a sad defense, good special teams, a very sad offense with no qb, no ol, no wrs, no te.

First of, philly stunk his first year then b/c of a weak divsion and conference they began to get better quickly to where they are now a big time team. I didn't say Wanny was handed nothing but he wasn't exactly handed a SB contender like you guys believe. He had NOTHING on Offense and a choking D. You can give me all the "top 5 D" stats you want, just go look up their performance in big games. Top 5 D's show up in big games, Miami did not have a top 5 D.

Look at Parcells, he has a bad offense and a defense that doesn't fit his system. So instead of using his draft picks to upgrade that offense, he had to spend this draft upgrading his defense. Wouldn't it have been nice if one of his buddy's had built a good defense with players that fit his system and handed him the Cowboys?

Actually Parcells was left w/ a very good D in Dallas, they were #1 the year before last but they were horrible last year after BP tinkered w/ it.

Wanny couldve had it MUCH MUCH worse. He had a very good team handed to him and he turned it into a failure like he did with the Bears.

he was handed a mediocre team which he made BETTER. He acquired some offensive talent like Ricky, Chambers, McMichael, etc... something the dolphins had lacked since the early 90s. His teams happened to play in the NFL's toughest division, if he had the luxury of playing in the NFC East he would have done more there. Eveen in the AFC East he brought the dolphins their only div title in the last decade and that was when expectations were for a horrible season after losing JJ and marino.

I am not trying to tell you Wanny was a great coach but I think you guys have overrated your talent over the last 7-8 years. They were never a team that had SB talent.

 

[shellgh0st]

First of, philly stunk his first year then b/c of a weak divsion and conference they began to get better quickly to where they are now a big time team. I didn't say Wanny was handed nothing but he wasn't exactly handed a SB contender like you guys believe. He had NOTHING on Offense and a choking D. You can give me all the "top 5 D" stats you want, just go look up their performance in big games. Top 5 D's show up in big games, Miami did not have a top 5 D.



Actually Parcells was left w/ a very good D in Dallas, they were #1 the year before last but they were horrible last year after BP tinkered w/ it.



he was handed a mediocre team which he made BETTER. He acquired some offensive talent like Ricky, Chambers, McMichael, etc... something the dolphins had lacked since the early 90s. His teams happened to play in the NFL's toughest division, if he had the luxury of playing in the NFC East he would have done more there. Eveen in the AFC East he brought the dolphins their only div title in the last decade and that was when expectations were for a horrible season after losing JJ and marino.

I am not trying to tell you Wanny was a great coach but I think you guys have overrated your talent over the last 7-8 years. They were never a team that had SB talent.

Wanny said "we're close" and said we are one or two players away from winning it all when he took over.

You also over look the fact he had advantages that most other coaches never get. Taking over a team that runs the same system. Being with the team as an assistant head coach the year prior to taking over the team.

BP didnt mess with dallas defense, that is why they fell apart.

Ironic, you call Dallas' defense #1 rated when you want to make a point, but dismiss our defenses statistical achievments when they don't support your theory. Do stats matter or not?

Once again Wanny and JJ said "WE'RE CLOSE."

I would love to go back and forth about this, but its pointless as you aren't being objective on this issue at all. Anyone who doesnt think Wanny was handed a good position, much better then most coaches are given, isnt looking at the situation logically and not worth debating.

 

[nyjunc]

Wanny said "we're close" and said we are one or two players away from winning it all when he took over.

You also over look the fact he had advantages that most other coaches never get. Taking over a team that runs the same system. Being with the team as an assistant head coach the year prior to taking over the team.

BP didnt mess with dallas defense, that is why they fell apart.

Ironic, you call Dallas' defense #1 rated when you want to make a point, but dismiss our defenses statistical achievments when they don't support your theory. Do stats matter or not?

Once again Wanny and JJ said "WE'RE CLOSE."

I would love to go back and forth about this, but its pointless as you aren't being objective on this issue at all. Anyone who doesnt think Wanny was handed a good position, much better then most coaches are given, isnt looking at the situation logically and not worth debating.

Did you expect Wannstedt to say "we are 3 or 4 years away"? When Parcells stepped down in NY he passed it off to Al Groh and he had all the "advantages" that Wannstedt(and more since we had an offense) yet the team flamed out under Groh.

Dallas had the #1 ranked D and their D didn't fold like Miami. They kept their team in the playoff game they had unlike Mimai's Ds which were down 14-0 to Den after 1 qtr in '98, 24-0 to Jax in '99 and 10-0 to Oak in '00. The Miami D's were vastly overrated. Wannstedt had NOTHING to work w/ on O. You brought up Andy reid earlier but he at least had Donovan McNabb and Duce Staley to work w/ while Wanny had nothing. The best he could do was get Fiedler and Smith.

 

[shellgh0st]

"I would love to go back and forth about this, but its pointless as you aren't being objective on this issue at all. Anyone who doesnt think Wanny was handed a good position, much better then most coaches are given, isnt looking at the situation logically and not worth debating."

reread please.